Kato - New Releases

[Darklighter]

New poster: http://www.katomodels.com/product/poster/files/2014_6.jpg

[JR 500系]

HHmm... seems like a number of re-releases, like the E231-500 Yamanote and the E4. Good for the wallet ¬¬ 

[katoftw]

A couple have already made the poster too recently.  Due to Kato pushing back alot of release dates.

[GuyCS]

Kato Lemke announced new TGV models about a month back on the lemke website, TGV reseau and two others in the new carmillon livery, bit pricey though at over 300 euros.

[brill27mcb]

"Ouch!" on the price. Are there pictures posted anywhere of these TGV models?

 

Rich K.

[westfalen]

Why do European models cost so much no matter where they are made or who makes them, or where you buy them?  Compare Shinkansen with TGVs or ICEs for example all basically the same type of train but the price of a three or four car ICE train starter set will get you a couple of 16 car Shinkansens.

[kvp]

The reasons are the same as the reasons for the price of a bigmac. On each market, they ask for the highest amount that will be paid in high enough quantities. There is a curve, where one coordinate is the price, the other is the quantity sold at that price and each company is looking to maximize the result of price*quantity which is the total income from a certain product. Production is profitable only when this income is more then the money required to make the product at a certain quantity. Soon you would have a nonlinear equation and you solve it for x and that is the optimal price. (this price is optimal for the company, not the consumers)

[JR 500系]

Maybe about the same as it's more expensive to eat Ramen in US than in Japan, and it costs more to eat Italian in Japan than in Europe. Grass is always greener on the other side? Japanese adore US and their way of living. To some of them, every Gaijin (foreigner, especially from US, Australia, Europe etc.) seems so much different and superior than them. I know some Japanese, especially girls, love the dream of having a Gaijin husband or boyfriend.

 

On the other hand, Jap girls probably dislike us Asians from China, Singapore, Malaysia etc.. Perhaps they feel more superior over us?

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Perhaps that's why foreign models are also more expensive than 'local' or Japanese ones. ..

[NJHA]

To me its just a matter of market size. 

 

The enthusiast n scale market in Europe is far smaller i guess than the Japanese one.  

So the production costs get more diluted on the trains aimed for the Japanese market,making them more affordable. 

 

It is also a matter of price perception.

For Europeans the 200€ price mark is seen as costly but still afordable, so most trains from reputable brands are priced around that value. 

The TGV is a "wanted" model in Europe, i believe the same way has the shinkansen are "wanted" models for the Japanese market. So setting a premium price is natural and accepted.  

 

It's only us, the users that know the regular prices asked for the Japanese trains, that find 300€ expensive. 

[westfalen]

The TGV is a "wanted" model in Europe, i believe the same way has the shinkansen are "wanted" models for the Japanese market. So setting a premium price is natural and accepted.  

But a Kato Shinkansen is cheaper in Japan than it is elswhere in the world and a Fleischmann or Marklin ICE is as expensive in Germany as it is anywhere else.

 

When I first visited Germany I thought I might pick up some trains cheaper than they are in Australia like Japanese trains are cheaper in Japan and U.S. trains are cheaper in the U.S. but the Germans apparently don't do things that way.

[NJHA]

But a Kato Shinkansen is cheaper in Japan than it is elswhere in the world and a Fleischmann or Marklin ICE is as expensive in Germany as it is anywhere else.

 

When I first visited Germany I thought I might pick up some trains cheaper than they are in Australia like Japanese trains are cheaper in Japan and U.S. trains are cheaper in the U.S. but the Germans apparently don't do things that way.

I believe this has something to do with the market scale. 

European trains have less buyers than Japanese trains, so production runs for European trains are smaller and thus the production price is higher. 

Also for trains built on European factories, the labor costs are higher, thus also increasing the production price. 

[kvp]

but the Germans apparently don't do things that way.

Just think of it as the German trains are as cheap in Australia as in Germay. One of the problems might be the manufacturing costs of Maerklin. They have factories in Germany and Hungary and manufacturing in Europe is not as cheap as in China. They tried the chinese way, but only ended up getting copied with their own tooling, so moved back production to Europe. Somehow Japanese manufacturers managed to produce trains in China without quality problems and getting copied. I don't really know how do they manage this. What strange is that Kato keeps the high prices while building the trains in China. The reasons might be market size and the avrage prices of competitors. If the N scale modell train market in Japan would be as small as in Europe, then japanese trains would cost a fortune too. Of course, if you check the prices for other scales, like H0 and TT, you will find that you can find really cheap trains too, because the markets for them are large. (most toy stores sell only H0 and lego train sets, just like in Japan, where the standard size is N)

[sedril]

Erm... correct me if I'm wrong, but I though Kato was manufactured exclusively in Japan?

[kvp]

Erm... correct me if I'm wrong, but I though Kato was manufactured exclusively in Japan?

That might be true, but then we have another question: How could they sell their japanese trains at low prices if they are really 100% made in Japan? The only thing i know for sure, is that most of the Takara Tomy range is made in China. (and not a bad quality either)

[katoftw]

If Maerklin is also made in Hungary, then they should be cheaper.  Hungary/Poland/Czech all have cheap labour forces.  Main reasons you see alot of automobile factories in these places.

 

I dont think the labour or size of market can come into it.  Europe has a huge market for model trains.  And labour is dirt cheap depending on which country you wanna manufacture in.

 

Just comes down to market expectations.  Germans are used to paying $300 for a comparible $150 Japan train.  So the market sets the price/bar at that point.

 

Australia for example has a very small market (of any product)(only 23 million people).  So price are higher that across the globe.  And up until the last decade or so, we have been at the mercy of the retailers/suppliers, as they were the only way to get goods.  It's been known as the 'Australian Tax'.  Best desription of it is we pay 20% than the rest of the world cos we live on a island in the middle of nowhere.

Edited April 3, 2014 by katoftw

[westfalen]

Whatever the mysterious forces at work in pricing it's Kato's new relases I look out for every month and not Fleischmann's or Marklin's.

[katoftw]

True dat...

 

I'm happy I just got a EH500 at hobby searches old price, 8820 jpy.  The old RRP is 9800 jpy.  Today's re-release according to Kato's website should have been 10,290jpy RRP.  It ain't much difference, but I was like, I'll buy that before they realize their pricing error.

[E6系]

Hello JR500系,

 

So sorry, but I do not necessarily agree with your remarks:

 

Japanese adore US and their way of living. To some of them, every Gaijin (foreigner, especially from US, Australia, Europe etc.) seems so much different and superior than them. I know some Japanese, especially girls, love the dream of having a Gaijin husband or boyfriend.

 

As a tourist to Japan many of the Japanese people you meet work in the Tourist Industry ... and like tourists.  Similarly, many of them probably think all Gaijin like Japan, because all the Giajin they meet are touring the country!!!  The ratio of interracial marriages is lower than for many S. E. Asian countries.  Nonetheless, despite the  obvious rumours that prevail around the world, if you want to know why some Japanese girls "dream of having a Gaijin husband" then you would have to ask one ... but don't expect an honest answer ... ;)

[Darklighter]

I'm happy I just got a EH500 at hobby searches old price, 8820 jpy.  The old RRP is 9800 jpy.  Today's re-release according to Kato's website should have been 10,290jpy RRP.  It ain't much difference, but I was like, I'll buy that before they realize their pricing error.

It's not a pricing error, 12,290 JPY is the price including 5% tax. ;)

[Densha]

A huge point in getting more people into starting the model train hobby is lowering the prices. Everyone living outside Japan is scared off by the ridiculous prices manufacturers ask so the hobby isn't that big. If there would be more higher detailed, technically better N gauge models available with a reasonable price I'm sure it would establish a new market itself. (if the correct marketing is used as well)

Just look at the Thalys made by Kato for example that runs a few kilometers from where I live. It's quite inexpensive for a European model and everything is perfect and works out of the box without almost no maintenance needed.

If Japanese-quality and pricing would be introduced even I would probably buy a few models eventually because I prefer N scale but almost no affordable models of Dutch railways are available in that scale. (not to forget H0 is also expensive) Lately Piko has been introducing some more affordable models, but they still cost at least three times as much as Japanese models.

[kvp]

Yes, the cheap piko H0 startsets are around 60 euros, that's 82 usd and you only get a steam locomotive with 3 cars and an oval with controller. For a large locomotive and 3 long passanger cars (+track and controller) you have to pay 140 euros (193 usd). A kato N startset with a 4 car emu is around 140 usd at hobby search. A kato santa fe startset with an f7a and 3 cars are 280 usd at kato usa. The prices seem similar, but since many european models are not available in analog form, you often have to pay extra for a preinstalled digital decoder even is you don't need it.

[Densha]

I'm not talking about those awful fictional Piko starter sets but this quite high quality N scale 2-car set for example:

 

 

It's priced at ~€190 while a Kato set of comparable quality with (self-)installed lights would cost about max ~€60 and if you add the taxes and customs costs and whatever it would be something like ~€80.

[kvp]

And we are back at the question of quantity. How many mat 1954-plan m could be sold around the world? How many random 2 car japanese railcars can be sold in japan only? Anyway, the set in the video is 169 euro at my nearest LSH, while a  comparable 2 car kato 313 series is 88 euro from japan, 120 euro after taxes, both without shipping. That's a difference of around 50 euro or 40%. (and since most of my japanese trains are tomytec train collection items, the price difference is even greater, not to mention piko doesn't seem to sell unmotorised expansion sets of the m54-m)

[katoftw]

It's not a pricing error, 12,290 JPY is the price including 5% tax. ;)

oh that makes sense.

[Densha]

True. But my point is, as mentioned before, if you set the price that high that people are scared off to buy them, how are you ever going to expand your market? If they would want to create a larger market the only solution is lowering prices. But I think that is a risk they just don't want to take.