Ugliest Trains?

[splifdfx]

Looking for more pictures of the Class 91, I found this : 

The APT-E, the Advanced Passenger Train...

It looks like it has the face of K-9 from Doctor Who...

Edited February 24, 2016 by splifdfx

[Welshbloke]

The APT-E is still with us at Shildon (NRM outpost). A group has been slowly restoring it as it pretty much sat abandoned outside at the museum for years, they even found that at least one of the gas turbines will spin freely (but there's no immediate plan to get it running!)

 

The E(xperimental) model was a four car set powered by gas turbines, with two in each power car. The two centre cars were used for instrumentation and also had a small seating area for VIPs.

 

The APT-P (Prototype) used overhead electric power, with a central power car flanked by passenger coaches. The main snag with this was that passengers couldn't walk through the power car, so you had to have two buffet cars and essentially two complete sets of train staff.

 

Both were dumped after the popular press shredded them (never mind that "tilt sickness" was caused by hungover journalists who were just looking for an excuse to bash another state-funded project). The electric power car did provide the basis for the Class 91 though, which is obvious when you look at the bogies. The MK4 coaches running with them were designed so that they could be retrofitted with tilting equipment, although that never happened and probably never will.

 

That flat cab on the 91 was a leftover of the design process. The locos were intended to be used on other services without their dedicated sets of MK4 coaches and a DVT on the other end, such as fast freight or sleepers. Again, never happened, but the flat cab is useful if the DVT breaks or if swapping locos.

[railsquid]

Not sure what this is, though I guess whoever designed it used to build small ships.

 

 

From here: https://youtu.be/XZ5ZzPTPBN8?t=22m11s

Edited February 25, 2016 by cteno4

[Densha]

The APT-P (Prototype) used overhead electric power, with a central power car flanked by passenger coaches. The main snag with this was that passengers couldn't walk through the power car, so you had to have two buffet cars and essentially two complete sets of train staff.

I wonder why they didn't just put the electrical equipment under the floor of the carriages, which is the main advantage of having an EMU rather than a rake of coaches pulled by a loco...

[Jace]

"Not sure what this is, though I guess whoever designed it used to build small ships."

 

That's a McKeen Motor Car (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKeen_Motor_Car_Company). Not only ugly but also very early motor cars. I'm amazed that a couple survived.

[ToniBabelony]

Here is something from italy, the new trainset for the Naples-Benevento line.

 

(image)

 

I got inspired by Rome's Line B MB100 series

(image)

 

Italy has truly given the world some of the worst and some of the best train designs ever. Up to the viewer what is what, but my preference is with the latter, True greatness in simplicity, like Bertone cars from the 80s!

[kvp]

In the case of the apt-p it was not an emu, just a regular cabless locomotive (b unit) with push-pull half sets on both sides. The swiss tee gottardo sets did the same but had a side corridor through the 6 axle locomotive. This arrangement comes from the two autocoaches flanking a tank loco arrangement of earlier times.

 

The alternative is a push pull set with a loco (or motor coach)/cab car or two locos (or motor coaches) arrangement that is still popular today. This has the benefit that if the equipment takes up above floor space, that can be put behind the cab. This is where most low floor emus/dmus have an engine room/high floor section.

[Socimi]

Something from Mother Russia.

 

 

The 81-717 series, wich is unfortunately the standard subway train for all the Ex-USSR countries.

 

And this is how the designers tried to make them "better" (the far left one is the base model).

 

 

I think only the far right one be "acceptable", but for the other two, it seems that the designers drank too muck vodka.

 

And this is the "improved version" ( 81-718 or 81-719 ) on service in the Tashkent Metro ( Uzbekistan )

 

 

And as we can see they improved...                             nothing.

Edited February 26, 2016 by DavideTreni

[HantuBlauLOL]

I personally love those comrade's chikatetsus..

[kvp]

 

The 81-717 series, wich is unfortunately the standard subway train for all the Ex-USSR countries.

'Fortunately' budapest has the older types:

 

The extra stuff on the front is just the result of some home tuning, which didn't go as planned.

(the usual method of upgrading is to cut off the front and bolt on a different front, imho the stock ones look better)

[Welshbloke]

I wonder why they didn't just put the electrical equipment under the floor of the carriages, which is the main advantage of having an EMU rather than a rake of coaches pulled by a loco...

 

I think at that time it was considered simpler to have one or two power cars rather than distributed power (which would have needed heavy cabling to transmit traction power between coaches). Test trains ran with one or two power cars, there were also weird formations involving the two prototype HST power cars (by then passed to the R&D department as useful high-speed tractor units) and assorted test cars/mobile laboratories.

 

When the APT was behaving itself the results were epic. One eyewitness account reports cruising up Shap (a particularly long and steep gradient which had steam engines crawling up it at single figure speeds) at a cool 140mph. No fuss, no sense that it was storming the climb, just a steady relentless shove in the back.

 

Its basic problem was that it was forced into public view before it was ready, and was then trashed by an unsympathetic media. What they didn't report is that after the PR disaster the APT-P was taken away and quietly fettled, before being reintroduced to traffic. It was showing real promise and had funding been continued would probably have been a success, had the entire project not been cancelled and all but a handful of the barely-used vehicles hurriedly scrapped. As it is, Virgin are currently operating Pendolino sets built in Italy...which were developed using data gathered by the APT project!

 

Interestingly the plan for a production APT would have had a power car at one end of a rake of coaches and a driving trailer at the far end, much like an ICE 2 but with tilt.

[ToniBabelony]

Thanks for the explanation of the APT. I didn't know that about the future plans! It would probably have revolutionised British Rail's approach to electrification and high-speed connections.

 

Personally, I like the overall APT design, as it reflects a very futuristic view of the day. Very mechanical, wedgy (very typical for car design back then as well) and almost non-human made like. It expresses power and speed in a raw and realistic sci-fi sense.

[railsquid]

The "production" version looked a little different:

 

[miyakoji]

The UK has had some fine looking trains, in addition to having invented the technology.  But why did some (a lot of?) classes have only one headlamp?

[railsquid]

In the case of the apt-p it was not an emu, just a regular cabless locomotive (b unit) with push-pull half sets on both sides. The swiss tee gottardo sets did the same but had a side corridor through the 6 axle locomotive. This arrangement comes from the two autocoaches flanking a tank loco arrangement of earlier times.

 

Do you just pull this stuff out of thin air?

 

A major problem was the recent discovery that the overhead lines on the WCML were subject to the creation of large waves in the lines at speeds over 200 kilometres per hour (120 mph). This was not a problem for two trains following each other with a spacing of several kilometers, but was a serious problem for a single train with pans at both ends. The obvious solution was to use a single pan at the front or back and then run the power between the cars, but this was outlawed by concerns over the presence of 25 kV power on the passenger cars.Some consideration was given to placing both engines back-to-back at one end of the train, but concerns were raised over over excessive buckling forces when pushing the train at high speeds with the tilt feature active. So, finally, the design team chose to place the engines back-to-back in the center of the train The two engines would be identical and both would carry a pantograph to pick up power, but in normal operation only the rear of the two engines would raise its pan, and the other engine would be fed power through a coupling along the roof.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Passenger_Train

[kvp]

The explanation above is correct and imho the first examples of cab car-locomotive-cab car running were those old steam trains. In that case, the problem was too long mechanical linkages so they couldn't put the cars on the same side. In the case of the apt, the concern was about the catenary. Different reasons, same arrangement.

 

A common solution to this is to make a standard push-pull set and connect two if the train is longer (like the railjet) or if it's really long enough and the catenary is strong enough just add the two locomotives to the ends. (like the ice1 and the tgv) Some ddr trains did someting similar like the british prototype with two 4 section articulated double decker railcars and an electric universal locomotive in the middle. It was not an experimental tilting train just a way to add more cars without having remote control coupling equipment on the cab side of the cars. (very similar case like the steam coaches above)

 

The japanese approach was to make the catenary good enough for the emu style, two cars share one pantograph approach. Imho this has prooved to be the best solution.

[Welshbloke]

The UK has had some fine looking trains, in addition to having invented the technology.  But why did some (a lot of?) classes have only one headlamp?

 

I think it's mostly because the headlamps on British trains are to make other people (such as signallers and track workers) aware of the train's presence, rather than to help the driver see. The steam-era railway worked on the basis of everything that you needed to see (such as signals, other trains, and so on) having a lamp attached, rather than having a powerful headlamp on the train to illuminate your surroundings.

 

Our lines are required by law to be fenced in, so there's less likelihood of finding people or animals on the track.

 

Headlamps on steam engines were used to denote the type of train being hauled - the position and number of lamps would enable signallers to recognise, say, an unbraked goods train (wagons not fitted with vacuum or air braking, such trains ran at around 25mph and used brakes on the engine and the guard's van at the rear to keep them under control) from an express passenger one. In diesel days these were replaced with headcode discs (which opened to reveal a white circle, or closed to show a body-coloured semicircle) or indeed headcode boxes which displayed alphanumeric codes.

 

We do now have high intensity headlights on trains - if you look at the cab front of older trains still in service on the main line you'll usually see a square fitting on the cab front or nose. I think it's still about making them visible from further away, rather than enabling the driver to see more though.

[Socimi]

How to upgrade a commuter railway's rolling stock?

 

1) You make the old look more modern.

 

 

Er... no, New Zealand... No.

 

2) You buy new rolling stock.

 

 

Please, not again....

 

3) You buy new rolling stock again.

 

 

Damnit New Zealand!

Edited February 29, 2016 by DavideTreni

[miyakoji]

That newest one definitely isn't bad. What types are those?

[Suica]

Personally I find the Siemens Inspiro trains of the Warsaw Metro very eye-offending.

 

 

The old Metrowagonmash cars are so much nicer.

[Eurostar25]

The New Zealand ones are all based in wellington and are called FP/FT units. They were built in South Korea by a consortium of Hyundai Rotem and Mitsui, with the first unit arriving in New Zealand in July 2010 and entering full-time service in March 2011.

 

To quote wikipedia

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_FP_class_electric_multiple_unit

 

Interestingly Auckland (the only other main centre with suburban rail) use a completely different machine, manufactured in Spain

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_AM_class_electric_multiple_unit

[Kiha66]

Pretty sure this is a shop, but I came across this monster today.

[bikkuri bahn]

Personally I find the Siemens Inspiro trains of the Warsaw Metro very eye-offending.

 

"Holy nineteen seventies Batman!"

[cteno4]

Pretty sure this is a shop, but I came across this monster today.

LOL a kiha and an m250 met late one night on a siding and this was born!

 

Jeff

[ToniBabelony]

LOL a kiha and an m250 met late one night on a siding and this was born!

 

I almost sprayed tea all over the laptop.