Ugliest Trains?

[Minelayer]

I would like to nominate the following ugly POS. Granted it may not be THE ugliest thing in the world but considering I have to ride this thing to get to work into the city it holds a special place in my heart.

 

Behold, the train/subway otherwise known as BART.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Minelayer

[Davo Dentetsu]

Everyone hates me for the simple fact I'm no fan of the GG1.  Mind you, there are far worse than that too...

*adopts tin hat rather quickly*

[Guest keio6000]

Limiting this to Japan for a moment, I think that KiHa 183 "blockhead" versions are pretty ugly.  But, it's pretty easy to pick on hokkaido trains as they have to be designed to be particularly tough.

 

 

even this kind of looks like it should be in India somewhere.

 

however, the grand champion for hokkaido ugliness, I think is:

 

[miyakoji]

I would like to nominate the following ugly POS. Granted it may not be THE ugliest thing in the world but considering I have to ride this thing to get to work into the city it holds a special place in my heart.

 

Behold, the train/subway otherwise known as BART.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about with windshield.  Other stuff I've seen has an even smaller windshield.

 

As for the Furano Express above, it's really not that bad.  I can't find a picture right now (I may have posted one in the past), but JR West modified a KIHA58/28 set, I think, to be a Joyful Train, and they did something very odd with the windshields.  Not good.  On the other hand, their 223 series is probably my all-time favorite.

[Minelayer]

Only Japan for the moment, eh? Ok, here are two.

[miyakoji]

Actually the Furano Express had me thinking of Meitetsu.  It's an acquired taste.

[Densha]

Only Japan for the moment, eh? Ok, here are two.

The observation train is awesome! I agree with you on the maglev, the latest model has an even uglier livery: http://www.tokyotimes.com/2013/310-mph-train-of-future-tested-in-japan/

[Minelayer]

Agreed. In fact the more I look at it the more it becomes "less ugly". Or perhaps that's because it's next to the Maglev.

 

:)

 

Actually the Furano Express had me thinking of Meitetsu.  It's an acquired taste.

[miyakoji]

I wonder if everyone here agrees that maglev vehicles are trains.  My idea of "train" is somewhat conventional, and it almost certainly involves flanged steel wheels on steel track.  I haven't really decided on maglev vehicles.

[Kabutoni]

Nooooo not the Meitetsu 7000 Series! One of my favourite trains and a signature train for Meitetsu for decades. Not the prettiest of trains, but certainly not the ugliest of trains as well.

 

Anyway, being in Japan for a longer time now, I've gotten accustomed to the Japanese 'taste' for design and have reviewed my views on trains a little. Here's a little list of ugly and uglier trains (all from http://www.uraken.net/rail/alltrain/index.html because the pictures are in the same size).

 

Aizu Railway AT400 (Somebody clearly wasn't thinking about design here)

 

Transportation Bureau of Nagoya City N1000 (Just what were they thinking?)

 

Sōtetsu 7000 (Not even trying to make a flat front look appealing)

 

But maybe the winner for me:

Odakyu 30000 EXE

 

I call it "The Brown Flash". It's maybe the fact that I have to deal with this train every time I ride Odakyu, which is a lot. Still, it reminds me of the lyrics of a Linkin Park song "I tried so hard, and go so far. In the end it doesn't even matter." I try to like this train, because it runs on my line. I try to like it because it's a convenient design (6+4 cars), but damn... It's just not getting in! No matter how I push myself to like it! Odakyu had/has some great designs, but this is just the epitome of uninspired corporate boredom. If the livery were different, the train would be a bit better, but no. This is maybe the most boring, ugly piece of excrement that runs on the Japanese networks of today. This train isn't even trying to look nice. It's not even functional in its front design. So much potential. So little achieved.

[miyakoji]

I don't know Toni, even that first one isn't really bad (and I think it's a KIHA48).

[Densha]

Oh my god, that Aizu Railway AT400 looks really really awful. I actually like the Sōtetsu 7000 because it looks so weird, the Nagoya subway isn't that bad either. But I really agree with you on the Odakyu 30000, it's nothing compared to their previous Romance Car designs.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Densha

[YKENM]

JR West (retired)

 

113-3800 "Sanpachi(サンパチ =38)"

 

 

 

419 "Bread(食パン)"

 

 

popular train with fans. because ugly.

[miyakoji]

:) two good examples.  The 113-3800 series is unusual, that yellow plate on the front looks like a bumper or something.  I rode a 419 in 2005 or 2006.  I wonder why they chose to convert 583s.  Did they have a large surplus of them?

[Sacto1985]

Many of the JNR-era EMU's from the 1960's didn't look good, especially with non-round nose. Particularly bad are the 101, 103, and some 113 Series EMU's. 

[Guest keio6000]

Good call on the Sotetsu 5000/7000.  I was going to post this too, and also the Tosa Kuroshio Railway 9640, but the system was giving me trouble posting images for a while.

 

But I agree, say it ain't so Meitetsu 7000!  Classic train.

 

Furano Express probably is not bad from a passenger experience, what with the big windows.  It's just the exterior.. ugg..

 

Fukushima Kotsu have taken some decent enough Tokyu 7000s and, while their basic scheme is boring but "ok", they have made a few quite ugly indeed:

 

[Ochanomizu]

Hello,

 

Ugly or beautiful.  What is your gauge?  Shape, color, era?

 

Has anyone considered the opposing view: looking from within?  Perhaps the beauty of a seemingly "ugly" train is from within?

 

Perhaps the beauty is in the integration of systems, the ability to operate in the environment harsh.

 

Perhaps simply not understanding the brief for the train.  We fail to see the elegant solution.

[miyakoji]

Yeah that's true.  As keio6000 mentioned, the JR Hokkaido trains are built for specific conditions, and fulfilling the requirements may result in an unusual appearance.

[cteno4]

Wise words Ochanomizu. Design can have so may hidden things that don't meet the eye right away. Photos too do not always do justice to a design and experiencing them in person can be quite profound as well. Seeing the E4 in person is a dramatic case in point. Standing right next to one quietly sliding into a station with that nose growing slowly shows a grace to the curves of that bill of that size (that train is BIG) is jaw dropping. It floats. Pictures and even models don't show that at all. Others like a 0 series does great in photos and does not surprise much in peson after photos. The GG1 is another, I always liked it but it really changes and amazes in person. It was fun to see Martijn's reaction when I took him up to see it in person in a museum in Pennsylvania.

 

I love the tough bulldog stance of the 153, it says I'm tough, ill blast thru any drift! It's design shows strength, and its important for the design to reflect its function, and the angles are nicely done actually.

 

I do find many subtle design nuances in all the Japanese trains I've seen that are much more ubiquitous than they are elsewhere in the world. Like you said sometimes they have to be looked for with a keen eye rather than a sneer.

 

Jeff

Edited June 24, 2013 by cteno4

[Densha]

Eh, I like those typical Japanese flat-nosed commuter trains. They are the example of Japanese trains.

 

This JR West 113 series was rebuilt with two new cabs that make it look like a 103 series:

JR West makes such a mess of their 113/115 series rolling stock, but it looks awesome so it doesn't belong in this topic. Why not create another "best looking trains" topic?

[Kabutoni]

Why not create another "best looking trains" topic?

 

DO EEET! :D

[YKENM]

:) two good examples.  The 113-3800 series is unusual, that yellow plate on the front looks like a bumper or something.  I rode a 419 in 2005 or 2006.  I wonder why they chose to convert 583s.  Did they have a large surplus of them?

 

yes.

419 is born in 1980s.

In 1980s, JNR had a plan of changing new electric train from the coach.

This plan is high cost. but JNR had debt accumulation problem in 1980s. 

 

So, JNR organize a new plan. It's convert 581/583.

Those days, 581/583 had large surplus by extension of Shinkansen.

 

these face cars often originally middle cars.

Example 113-3800, 419, Fukushima Kotsu 7000...

[E6系]

Miyakoji-san,

 

583系 was a problem child.  Concept is copy from American and European interurban sleeper train.  Of course, Japan must have.  But rail in Japan is quite different.  For example, speed is limited to 120km/h, 70km/h in many places.  581系 appeared in 1967.  583系 appeared in 1968.  Shinkansen was already running between Tokyo and Osaka, so 583系 was limited to running on less competitive route as shinkansen was feature train.

 

Also, sleeper car is not much useful except as sleeper train.  The service was specialised and the cars must be stored during the day.  Arrival and departure time conflicted with peak hour which, by the 1980's had become peak 3 hours in morning and night.  Combine with opening of Tohoku and other north bound shinkansen sleeper car became unpopular.

 

Services from Ueno were 13 car in the 1960's and 70's.  These days the train is much shorter.

 

But the car is still reliable.  So it was converted to 715系 and 419系

[bill937ca]

Hello,

 

Ugly or beautiful.  What is your gauge?  Shape, color, era?

 

Has anyone considered the opposing view: looking from within?  Perhaps the beauty of a seemingly "ugly" train is from within?

 

Perhaps the beauty is in the integration of systems, the ability to operate in the environment harsh.

 

Perhaps simply not understanding the brief for the train.  We fail to see the elegant solution.

 

In a way this whole thread is very disrespectful of our Japanese partners on the board.

 

I think most of us would find any train that didn't perform less than acceptable, particularly if we depended on this to get us to work and very unrelenting boss. Trains are designed to perform.  I like traditional three window fronts, but on trains these are less attractive than on trams where there can be curving or bay window shaped ends.  Japan has been pressed to increase capacity over the years on many train lines and function would come before styling on crowded commuter lines.  Out in the country where ridership has often fallen as car use grew, an economical upgrade of an older design may be the most cost effective solution. 

 

This thread is completely at odds with the way I think of Japanese trains.

Edited June 24, 2013 by bill937ca

[Guest keio6000]

Miyakoji-san,

 

583系 was a problem child.  Concept is copy from American and European interurban sleeper train.  Of course, Japan must have.  But rail in Japan is quite different.  For example, speed is limited to 120km/h, 70km/h in many places.  581系 appeared in 1967.  583系 appeared in 1968.  Shinkansen was already running between Tokyo and Osaka, so 583系 was limited to running on less competitive route as shinkansen was feature train.

 

I always used to think that 581/583 were ugly.  However, my understanding was that it won many prizes and polls for popularity, at least among railfans.   So, after it grew on me for many yeras and I viewed it as a'must have' in any respectible n gauge collection finally I just ordered the "new" Tomix HG 5-car version    I think this is one "common" train that, for a number of reasons, relatively few foreigners have ever taken.  185 series is the other that wins this distinction, I think.

 

A more recent equivalent of this might be E653/657/751 series trains which are common enough, and even seen near tokyo, but I think that few foreigners have much need to go that slowly towards fukushima (I went to Mito once only because their football team has the most elegant logo of any football team I ever saw, so I decided to go become a fan, but i found the match to be.. well.. I think  I play football better :).

 

bill937ca:  the idea of 'beauty' loses all meaning if there is not also the notion of 'plain.'  there is no doubt that japanese railawys perform wonderfully, which is a large part of why many of us are fans of japan rail.   however, there is also little doubt that very considerable effort goes into the aesthetics of it all, and it is a tribute to the fact that we care about the efforts of those who work on such aspects that we choose to discuss the good and the bad.  remember, the opposite of love is not hate -- it's indifference.

 

as far as 'form before function', this is in my view, a mostly false dichotomy.  the difference between good design and not so good design is not whether one looks prettier than the other, but whether one can perform the same (or better) function as another and also be aesthetically more pleasing.  this is why there is an old adage that the worst buildings in the world are the ones that win architectural prizes - since architectural prizes tend to award beauty only without real concern for practiality.   a good example is the fukushima kotsu train i posted - my criticism of that one is not of the basically decent tokyu 7000 shape, but of the rather lazy and cheap looking lettering and styling applied to it.