New rolling stock for Yamanote Line- 235 series

[Sacto1985]

I still say the E231-500's will be headed mostly to the scrapyard because the all-stops service puts a huge physical load on the trainset, which pretty much wears them out by 15-17 years of service. I think the 103's and 205's used on Yamanote Line service were all pretty much scrapped at the end of their service lives.

[lurkingknight]

my chrome translation plugin is telling me 改造車 means 'hotrod or remodeled car'

 

The 231 looks so friendly and inviting... it would be a shame to go with a livery and front end that wasn't so welcoming.

 

As to comment on the door coloring vs the longitudinal stripe, the stripe is much easier to identify when the train is in motion. It's constantly there as it's passing the platform so you know what color it is. When you vertically stack it, it will strobe as it passes by, possibly making it unclear if you're not paying much attention.

 

yes, I'm coming in late to this thread... it's one of those insomnia nights so I'm cruising through threads and sections I don't usually check. :P

Edited August 4, 2014 by lurkingknight

[HantuBlauLOL]

is this the real one.. or shopped?

 

Edited November 22, 2014 by HantuBlauLOL

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I don't know, but it looks 'shopped to me.

[Sacto1985]

I believe that the first E235 trainsets won't be shipped out of the factory until March 2015. I wonder who will build it--JR East's own Niitsu plant near Niigata, or J-TREC?

[katoftw]

That is a photoshopped pic. But probably the best rendering I have seen so far of the newer train set. Much better than anything JRE as released.

 

They have used a E231-0 and not a E231-500, note the window between the front and drivers door. And the first passenger door also further back. the -500 has the window removed and both the drivers door and first passenger door more forwardly located.

Edited November 22, 2014 by katoftw

[E231-500]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFekEpzNbk

 

please correct me if i am mistaken, but the train in the above video appears to be an E231-500 in what I think is Sobu Line yellow?

 

does this mean that we wont see the E231-500's in the scrap yard just yet?

[ToniBabelony]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFekEpzNbk

 

please correct me if i am mistaken, but the train in the above video appears to be an E231-500 in what I think is Sobu Line yellow?

 

does this mean that we wont see the E231-500's in the scrap yard just yet?

 

Yes, the E231-500s will probably be delegated to other lines when the 235s are making their entry. I foresee them replacing the remaining 209s on the Keiyo, Musashino, Nambu, etc.

[JR 500系]

 

does this mean that we wont see the E231-500's in the scrap yard just yet?

 

Yap, like Toni mentioned, the E231-500 would probably serve the other lines. That will most probably mean the remaining 209-0 on the Keihin-Tohoku or Nambu Line or the 209-500 on the Sobu/ Keiyo Line will be visiting the scrap yard instead...

[Sacto1985]

Toni, I have my doubts. I think the majority of E231-500's now in Yamanote Line service will be heading for the scrapyard--remember, those trainsets are VERY hard-worked with the constant start-stop operation at every station on the Yamanote Line, which can put a huge physical stress on the entire trainset. This is why I think the Musashino and eventually the Chūō-Sōbu Line trains will likely be replaced by an E235 variant by 2020.

[katoftw]

 

Toni, I have my doubts. I think the majority of E231-500's now in Yamanote Line service will be heading for the scrapyard--remember, those trainsets are VERY hard-worked with the constant start-stop operation at every station on the Yamanote Line, which can put a huge physical stress on the entire trainset. This is why I think the Musashino and eventually the Chūō-Sōbu Line trains will likely be replaced by an E235 variant by 2020.

That stress should only effect the replacable moving parts. All parts that can be replaced and renewed.

[ToniBabelony]

Yap, like Toni mentioned, the E231-500 would probably serve the other lines. That will most probably mean the remaining 209-0 on the Keihin-Tohoku or Nambu Line or the 209-500 on the Sobu/ Keiyo Line will be visiting the scrap yard instead...

 

AFAIK, all 209s on the Keihin-Tōhoku were retired from there in January 2010 in favour of the wider E233-1000 sets.

 

Toni, I have my doubts. I think the majority of E231-500's now in Yamanote Line service will be heading for the scrapyard--remember, those trainsets are VERY hard-worked with the constant start-stop operation at every station on the Yamanote Line, which can put a huge physical stress on the entire trainset. This is why I think the Musashino and eventually the Chūō-Sōbu Line trains will likely be replaced by an E235 variant by 2020.

 

It might surprise you, but there are even some Yamanote E231-4600 cars scheduled to be rebuilt into unpowered E235 centre cars (number 10).

 

Also, on the Japanese language web, there is a lot of talk about the E231-500s going to replace old trains on the Sagami line (I can't wait to see those ugly 205-500 Series go) and the remaining 209 Series on the network (the Chūō-Sōbu 209-500s in particular). The bodies and electronics of the E231-500s can still operate for quite a while. The motors and gears just need replacement.

[miyakoji]

To me the green stripe and trim is so part and parcel of the 231 series, the yellow really transforms it. It would be interesting to see it with an aqua stripe like the 209-500s have. Yeah the 209-500 is not a really great looking train, but it has its charm. :)

[bikkuri bahn]

 I wonder who will build it--JR East's own Niitsu plant near Niigata, or J-TREC?

 

The first set(s) will be built at Niitsu, according to a Niigata newspaper report earlier this year.  Whether later builds will be divvied up between the two plants depends probably on capacity issues, such as the current backlog of orders at the Yokohama plant, which include export orders ("sustina" etc.), orders from private railways, and limited express unit orders. Also, given that the Niitsu Plant has a dedicated assembly line for "E" type commuter trains, and the related human capital concentrated there, the priority for orders is likely with that facility, rather than Yokohama.

[kvp]

 

That stress should only effect the replacable moving parts. All parts that can be replaced and renewed.

A pretty common problem with commuter emus is cracks on bogies and bodies around the doors. The old separate frame + upper body types are better in this regard as they can be repaired more easily. As long as the bodies are good, the rest can be replaced without too much work. Afaik the 231 series has a projected lifespan of 15 to 20 years, so after this time the trains have to be stripped and rebuilt. This is doable but seems like any major maintenance would go against the whole idea of cheap light trains with short lifespans and building new ones instead of rebuilding old ones. We will see what would happen, since the decisions of the JR East management will be influenced by available funds and factory capacity. I would add that the same facilities are used for building new trains that are used in the past for major overhauls.

[marknewton]

But I have no idea where the origin of the idea lies.

Probably from some overpaid industrial "designer" who has never driven a train.

 

There's at least four members of this forum who run trains for a living. I can't speak for anyone else, but my preference is for a cab that has side windows that allow me some peripheral vision. Driving safely and well is not just about looking out the front of your train.

 

A major aspect of good train management is situational awareness, and when you limit a driver's field of vision you diminish that awareness. Seeing what goes on at line side is not a distraction, it's vitally important to safely running your train. Observing and responding to speed boards, caution or warning boards, flagmen and car markers are all part of the driver's role. And in a yard or depot being able to see all around you is even more important than when you're out on the road.

 

The same goes for TV cameras. They're a useful aid, but they're no substitute for direct unobstructed vision. The suggestion that you could drive a train using only the vision from a TV camera is laughable.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Edited November 28, 2014 by marknewton

[railsquid]

 

It might surprise you, but there are even some Yamanote E231-4600 cars scheduled to be rebuilt into unpowered E235 centre cars (number 10).

 

AFAIK these are the ones added to replace the six-door cars a couple of years ago (I wonder what happened to those) so will be considerably younger than the rest of each set.

[marknewton]

That stress should only effect the replacable moving parts. All parts that can be replaced and renewed.

I agree with Sacto. The car bodies themselves get the sh*t knocked out of them by traction, braking, buff and draft forces, pipework and electrical conduits and wiring will wear out, none of which are easy to repair or replace. If these trains were designed and built as lightweight units with a short working life then I reckon scrapping is their most likely fate.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[ToniBabelony]

AFAIK these are the ones added to replace the six-door cars a couple of years ago (I wonder what happened to those) so will be considerably younger than the rest of each set.

That makes sense :)

[kvp]

The 6 door cars went to commuter lines with no tourists, capacity problems and no plans for platform doors. Some were reused as parts sources for the new platform door trailers.

 

About peripheral vision: it's a rather old debate and some german locomotives were built without side windows before ww2. The idea is that the driver should not care about trackside events, because if someone gets on the tracks that is not visible through the main windscreen, then it's already too late to brake. On the other hand, cameras are good, the vancouver skytrain has a remote manual mode where the driver sits in the control center and sees everything through video feeds. Depot movements are also done this way.

[Sacto1985]

It's going to be very interesting to see how cars in the from the E231-500 trainsets will be rebuilt into non-powered cars for the E235 trainsets. I don't expect many, given what I've said about the physically stressful operation of the E231-500 trainsets now.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sacto1985

[kvp]

The cars dont have to be rebuilt, since they are already trailers. They need a new paint and one rows of seats removed on both ends. And they may get new tv screens for video ads.

[railsquid]

The 6 door cars went to commuter lines with no tourists, capacity problems and no plans for platform doors. Some were reused as parts sources for the new platform door trailers.

 

As far as I can tell (haven't been able to locate a definitive source) they were all taken on a one-way trip to Nagano:

 

 

where they met their fate:

 

Bogies and other parts salvaged for reuse.

 

Not sure why tourists would be consideration for whether or not to deploy 6 door cars...

[kvp]

The nickname of 6 door cars were cattle cars. This doesn't sound good for marketing reasons. The new sets will have one bench removed from every car end as reserved wheelchair space. The result is that they will have the same amount of seating as the old sets with both cattle cars in folded up position, but it won't be as noticable. Also the cars don't have to carry the extra seats and no crew is required to lock/unlock them.

[ToniBabelony]

The only 6-door E231s outside of the Yamanote line are the Chūō-Sōbu line trains. Come to think of that, aren't the E231s on the Chūō-Sōbu line the only JR East trains left with 6-doors? The only one operating 6-door trains at large must then be Tōkyū with their Den'entoshi Line 5000 Series (usually 3 cars per train).