Sort of club for Dutch/German/Belgian members?

[Densha]

Yeah I was sort of overwhelmed at the meeting, sorry about that. ^^;

I understand Martijn's reasoning too and the solution you both are talking about, a transition module is a good solution for it I think for people who want to make it their own style.

 

Well, the S45 pieces are to keep the curve radius in the 310mm grid with standard Unitrack pieces, but you are always free to use different pieces. Provided you stick with the minimum radius of 180mm, all is well. In the description of each module the rail pieces are stated as 'recommended', so you don't need to stick to the description. It's merely there as a guideline to make things easier.

Yeah, but the problem is that I'm having a hard time getting other curves fit, and I'm bad at doing the maths of that. (even if it's no maths)

 

That is true, but it would be more than logical to leave some space open on each transition end of every module. However, you are very right about that and I'll also add that to the guide.

I don't really get what you mean unfortunately.

 

Also, I that a mockup on cardboard?

[ToniBabelony]

Well, the S45 pieces are to keep the curve radius in the 310mm grid with standard Unitrack pieces, but you are always free to use different pieces. Provided you stick with the minimum radius of 180mm, all is well. In the description of each module the rail pieces are stated as 'recommended', so you don't need to stick to the description. It's merely there as a guideline to make things easier.

Yeah, but the problem is that I'm having a hard time getting other curves fit, and I'm bad at doing the maths of that. (even if it's no maths)

 

Well, it's easy when you apply this formula:

 

(module size) - (rail-centre-to-front) - (Unitrack radius that would fit) = (space that needs to be filled with extra rail) -> 310mm-83mm-183mm=44 I admit it's not 45mm (or even 45.5mm for that matter), but it leaves room for error, which is needed very much needed with this kind of building. You don't need to plan too tight.

 

That is true, but it would be more than logical to leave some space open on each transition end of every module. However, you are very right about that and I'll also add that to the guide.

I don't really get what you mean unfortunately.

 

Well, you need a little space to move the modules around a little bit when connecting/disconnecting them. A bit of flexibility is needed, so you need to build your modules slightly shorter than the 310mm grid. The small overhang of the tracks will make up for that anyway.

 

Also, I that a mockup on cardboard?

 

Yep. As soon as I got home I decided to built for the sake of saving weight and the trouble of cutting wood. It also saves  a considerate amount of cash.

[Martijn Meerts]

If I had to make a choice between being able to have buildings on the front of the module or a larger radius, I'd go the the first option :)

[Densha]

Will check the formula out in the coming days, but I'm curious which depth your cardboard test thingy has? (for an estimate)

[ToniBabelony]

Will check the formula out in the coming days, but I'm curious which depth your cardboard test thingy has? (for an estimate)

 

It's not complying to the standards we have set up, since it's 210mm deep... I had to cheat a little to get one building on it (the corner building). :P

[Densha]

Doesn't really matter for me so I can make a guess how it looks like now. You can fit quite a a lot in such a small space.

[Ben]

At the moment, I am already working on a module which complies with the standards we decided upon in the meeting. Also, IIRC Ben and Martijn were also very much inclined to the proposal.

 

Aye, I like the inner track standard.

 

So, where's the best place to buy Kato tracks here in Holland? Densha, you mentioned some of the starter kits are good value?

[ToniBabelony]

Over here: http://www.n-spoorstore.nl/n-spoorstore.nl/

 

Also, I've finished my first module already. Made entirely from cardboard, and has all buildings with interior lighting and illuminated street lights.

 

Now my desk and keyboard are all covered in weathering minerals... D: Damn!

[bill937ca]

Over here: http://www.n-spoorstore.nl/n-spoorstore.nl/

 

Also, I've finished my first module already. Made entirely from cardboard, and has all buildings with interior lighting and illuminated street lights.

 

Now my desk and keyboard are all covered in weathering minerals... D: Damn!

 

I thought most streets in Japan do not have names.  Why would you have street signs?

 

Another article here.  Here is the breakdown of an address in Tokyo.  No street name.

[Ben]

Wow, that looks amazing!

 

I note that http://www.en.dm-toys.de has a number of Tomix/Kato things, could be handy.

 

Ben

[ToniBabelony]

I thought most streets in Japan do not have names.  Why would you have street signs?

 

I know. Where do you see street signs? If you refer to the circular red sign in the last picture, that's a sign that indicates the location of a fire extinguisher 80 meters away. The other little signs are advertisements.

[bill937ca]

I thought most streets in Japan do not have names.  Why would you have street signs?

 

I know. Where do you see street signs? If you refer to the circular red sign in the last picture, that's a sign that indicates the location of a fire extinguisher 80 meters away. The other little signs are advertisements.

 

Ooops. My bad. I miss read your post.  It`s been that type of day. 

[cteno4]

Also, I've finished my first module already. Made entirely from cardboard, and has all buildings with interior lighting and illuminated street lights.

 

Now my desk and keyboard are all covered in weathering minerals... D: Damn!

 

Toni,

 

hey great work! lovely what you can do in a module size like that working on your desk! Thats the great thing about small modules like this you can get a lot done quickly and pretty cheaply and easily and repeat. not get bogged down on a single process for days, weeks, months, or years like you can on a big layout!

 

might think of hitting the sides and underside of the cardboard module with some clear lacquer coats to keep it from tweaking if you get any big humidity changes. will also help it from dinging up as much! folks have also used the little wooden orange crates for module boxes!

 

i know the keyboard gumming, i have a bad habit of fiddling on things at my workstation and the keyboard gets the brunt of the rain of crap!

 

jeff

[Densha]

At the moment, I am already working on a module which complies with the standards we decided upon in the meeting. Also, IIRC Ben and Martijn were also very much inclined to the proposal.

 

Aye, I like the inner track standard.

I think I'll just go with it too, it doesn't matter really much actually.

 

So, where's the best place to buy Kato tracks here in Holland? Densha, you mentioned some of the starter kits are good value?

Over here: http://www.n-spoorstore.nl/n-spoorstore.nl/

For some reason it seems like they don't sell Unitrack anymore, but they do sell Tomytec chassis it seems.

I know KatoNL sells a quite a lot of Kato stuff (for a Dutch shop), but haven't done any business with them, as with the N-spoorstore.

It heavily depends on which track you want to get, which way you should get them. Sets are always cheaper, but if you don't use some pieces than it could be not worth to buy it. There's one "variation set" you may consider, the V4 one which consists of a left and right switch and some straight pieces of 248mm and two switch control thingies. The V4 costs the same (V4 is two euros more expensive at KatoNL) as buying only the two separate switches without straight track and switch controllers. But you should only buy it if you are going to build a station or use the switches another way of course. But maybe there is something else with a much more better idea.

 

I note that http://www.en.dm-toys.de has a number of Tomix/Kato things, could be handy.

You can get everything they have for Kato in the Netherlands except for the chassis. Modeltreinexpress in Vlaardingen has Kato decoders (not sure if every model) and some interior lighting if I'm right, but KatoNL has them too.

 

I thought most streets in Japan do not have names.  Why would you have street signs?

 

Another article here.  Here is the breakdown of an address in Tokyo.  No street name.

Wow, never knew about that. Love learning stuff like this.

 

@Toni

Looks great and done very fast, but there's one bit I find a bit questionable (sorry for complaining so much ), and that is that the road is completely black, is it like that in real too? Most times asphalt is not very new, but the black color is still possible though if you think about it like that.

[ToniBabelony]

@Toni

Looks great and done very fast, but there's one bit I find a bit questionable (sorry for complaining so much ), and that is that the road is completely black, is it like that in real too? Most times asphalt is not very new, but the black color is still possible though if you think about it like that.

 

Thanks!

 

Well, when I started painting the road I already started to worry about that as well... However, I wasn't trying to create asphalt, but tar(which is blacker), but I'm trying to get a light grey weathering wash over it to create some dust. Tar is very prone to get a dusty covering because it melts more quickly than asphalt and makes dust stick to it more easily (which is why you don't see it used too often any more).

[Densha]

Toni, where have you got those street lights from actually? Or (partly) self-made?

[ToniBabelony]

Toni, where have you got those street lights from actually? Or (partly) self-made?

 

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/T93-20pcs-Model-Trains-Lamppost-LED-lamp-HO-N-35mm-12v-/160547929679?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item256166fe4f#ht_2142wt_861

 

You should check out eBay for Chinese suppliers that sell cheap model train stuff. The quality is so-so, since you need to scrape off oxidation and plastic from wires in order to make them have electrical contact. Other than that, it's good value for money.

[Densha]

Just theoretically, what track would you need to change the standard track to the other side of the module? I know it is different with different depths, that make it even more difficult.

 

Edit:

I just noticed you added electrics to the document, but actually I don't really get the picture and the idea of blue and white.

And I forgot that we were talking about feeder track/wired Unijoiners. Is it really obligatory to use one of them on every module or just a few of them? Of course I have to start with one with it of course, but I don't like the idea of having so much loose wires when not attached.

 

Also maybe you could add the the spacing between Unitrack, and between the secondary track and the side of the module, and optional between the side of the secondary track to the side of the module. I think it's much easier to see all measures at once that way.

 

Also I forgot to say something multiple times, but are we actually doing the bolts idea or not? Or is it optional? (maybe add this to the guide too?)

And even more, do we want to use 'vilt' (can't think of the English word and google translate doesn't like me) beneath it so that the wood won't be damaged or damage the table/shelf. I got the idea from Sir Madog's modules. And if we're doing it, we should set a height for it.

 

I'm sure I forgot something else, but I have some kind of amnesia from the meeting or something.

 

Edit 2: And again I thought of something. Maybe set a standard for the type of ballast? I'm sure it will look much better like that. But making this just a standard, and don't force people to do it like that. Woodland Scenics has a wide choice but I don't know which would be the best for Japanese N scale, and the color neither. I know that I personally like how Sir Madog has done (a mix from different colors is mandatory IMO), but maybe some weathering could make it look even better, which should also be thought a standard of.

Apart from the standard I don't even know which type ballast I should use, so any ideas on it would be welcome anyway.

[ToniBabelony]

Just theoretically, what track would you need to change the standard track to the other side of the module? I know it is different with different depths, that make it even more difficult.

 

Well, the rail needs to bridge a gap of 177mm from one side to the other side of the module (310mm - 83mm - 50mm) and that will probably take up about 2 module lengths (2 x 310mm), maybe only just one, I haven't looked into that yet.

 

I just noticed you added electrics to the document, but actually I don't really get the picture and the idea of blue and white.

And I forgot that we were talking about feeder track/wired Unijoiners. Is it really obligatory to use one of them on every module or just a few of them? Of course I have to start with one with it of course, but I don't like the idea of having so much loose wires when not attached.

 

On single-track it doesn't really matter what side the wires are, plus it's not really obligatory, since we can always add wired Unijoiners in case of an emergency. I have no S62J tracks on my modules, but I plan on having wired Unijoiners in between the both of them, so I still have an electrical connection for both at the same time. If having loose wires is an issue, you should see the underside of my finished module... Anyway, you can always tape the wires temporarily to the underside of your module.

 

Also maybe you could add the the spacing between Unitrack, and between the secondary track and the side of the module, and optional between the side of the secondary track to the side of the module. I think it's much easier to see all measures at once that way.

 

True that. I should update the drawings as well with computer graphics. The hand drawn ones are maybe 'nicer', but they are harder to understand.

 

Also I forgot to say something multiple times, but are we actually doing the bolts idea or not? Or is it optional? (maybe add this to the guide too?)

 

I recall from the meeting we decided upon not using bolts, but only the Unijoiners to keep the modules together. I think this shouldn't be included in the guide, since it would only confuse people.

 

And even more, do we want to use 'vilt' (can't think of the English word and google translate doesn't like me) beneath it so that the wood won't be damaged or damage the table/shelf. I got the idea from Sir Madog's modules. And if we're doing it, we should set a height for it.

 

What you do with your module is up to yourself. As long as the module has the correct measurements, the rails are according to standards, and the rail ends are Unijoiners, it's free for all anyway.

 

And again I thought of something. Maybe set a standard for the type of ballast?

 

I don't know about that. T-Trak is all about individual choice of filling in an empty space, so I don't think we should make up a standard for visuals. If you want to have a standard for ballast, you should also make up a standard for road-surfaces. Both will be difficult, since ballast looks differ per region (e.g. weathering by traction: electric, steam, diesel, and climate: snowfall (more rust) or more sand (along the seaside with beaches)) and differ per company (some companies used sand over their ballast). Same with roads, where you can have dirt roads (with all their different regional hues), tarmac, asphalt and concrete surfaces, just to name a few possibilities.

[Densha]

Well, the rail needs to bridge a gap of 177mm from one side to the other side of the module (310mm - 83mm - 50mm) and that will probably take up about 2 module lengths (2 x 310mm), maybe only just one, I haven't looked into that yet.

What module depth have you used in that case.

 

True that. I should update the drawings as well with computer graphics. The hand drawn ones are maybe 'nicer', but they are harder to understand.

I don't think they're difficult to understand, but just don't have all measures in them.

 

I recall from the meeting we decided upon not using bolts, but only the Unijoiners to keep the modules together. I think this shouldn't be included in the guide, since it would only confuse people.

I think we did now you say it.

 

And even more, do we want to use 'vilt' (can't think of the English word and google translate doesn't like me) beneath it so that the wood won't be damaged or damage the table/shelf. I got the idea from Sir Madog's modules. And if we're doing it, we should set a height for it.

What you do with your module is up to yourself. As long as the module has the correct measurements, the rails are according to standards, and the rail ends are Unijoiners, it's free for all anyway.

The reason I mentioned this here is because it makes the level of the module higher, I could make the wood at the sides a bit lower, but it's not a perfect solution. Also it is a bit spongy so after a while it could result in it being lower than the modules of others.

 

I don't know about that. T-Trak is all about individual choice of filling in an empty space, so I don't think we should make up a standard for visuals. If you want to have a standard for ballast, you should also make up a standard for road-surfaces. Both will be difficult, since ballast looks differ per region (e.g. weathering by traction: electric, steam, diesel, and climate: snowfall (more rust) or more sand (along the seaside with beaches)) and differ per company (some companies used sand over their ballast). Same with roads, where you can have dirt roads (with all their different regional hues), tarmac, asphalt and concrete surfaces, just to name a few possibilities.

True, but I often see one street being asphalt, while another street is concrete and a path leading to a farm being dirt, that's at least what I see in the Netherlands and sometimes you can see them all at one place together, which could be not representative for Japan.

At first I want to say that I personally don't have much experience with ballasting, especially in choosing what kind of ballast (and mixes) I should use. I know that Woodland Scenics has a wide choice, but maybe there's an alternative? Anyway, I think most of us are planning to have electric traction, and maybe diesel. It would be great if you or someone else could make a recommendation on what size and color (mix) of ballast should look the best. I think making it multiple colors of gray should look the best. I also asked this at Sir Madog's topic.

Weathering should be left to the person himself too, but I'm not anywhere near to that subject so I just leave it as it is.

[Martijn Meerts]

For ballast, the best result I've seen is a mix of various Woodland Scenics colors with some slight weathering applied after laying the ballast. I haven't tried it myself yet, although I do have the necessary colors for the mix.

 

Of course, if you want to be prototypical, the ballast also depends a lot on the type of rolling stock and usage of the line and weather conditions etc, but purely from a visual stand point, I'm going with what's described here: http://www.floodland.nl/aim/info_rails_ballasten_1.htm .. That's not just for the T-Trak stuff, but also for my bigger layout.

[Densha]

@Martijn

Haha, I also came across that website last year. I didn't really consider using it for N scale, because its H0, but since he used the fine ballast it should be okay I guess.. I only find it difficult to imagine how it looks like on Unitrack.

[Martijn Meerts]

Well, I think the fine ballast is actually too fine for H0.. You'd really need something in between fine and medium. For N the fine ballast might be a bit oversized, but it should look perfectly fine. The standard N-scale marketed ballast is usually a lot coarser the Woodland Scenics fine ballast.

 

It'll be interesting to see how it's going to work with the Unitrack. Obviously, the plastic Unitrack ballast needs to be either painted or (more likely) get a light covering of the woodland scenics ballast.

 

I'll likely have a lot of time in a week or 2 to start on some modules, considering the company I work for will go into summer mode for a while, which generally means I don't have to go into the office that much, and can work from home ;)

[Densha]

get a light covering of the woodland scenics ballast.

I think this would look the best, then it looks more like one entity.

[ToniBabelony]

Well, the rail needs to bridge a gap of 177mm from one side to the other side of the module (310mm - 83mm - 50mm) and that will probably take up about 2 module lengths (2 x 310mm), maybe only just one, I haven't looked into that yet.

What module depth have you used in that case.

 

The 310 depth: 310mm deep - 83mm from front - 50mm from back = 177mm to cover in depth, providing this is a double track layout. For a single-track layout this then would be: 310mm deep - 83mm from front - 83mm from back = 144mm to cover in depth.

 

True, but I often see one street being asphalt, while another street is concrete and a path leading to a farm being dirt, that's at least what I see in the Netherlands and sometimes you can see them all at one place together, which could be not representative for Japan.

 

Well, depends on the time you're setting your module in. From the 1950s to now, Japan has seen a lot of variety in road surface coverings. Up until the late fifties and until deep in the seventies, lots of roads in Japan were in fact unpaved. Only major roads would have some form of asphalt, tarmac or crude concrete slabs. I'd suggest you check out this website for some insight on Japanese private and national railways in the 1960s and 1970: http://umemado.blogspot.nl/

 

Also, deep in the countryside roads could even be made up of just dirt/sand. In rainy seasons whole villages/towns would be virtually inaccessible by road because they would turn into mud trails. Back then, the interurban and other forms of local trains were king.