Kato - New Releases

[Suica]

My prayers have been heard. Blue 883 Sonic re-release!

[JR 500系]

aaahhhhh that Sonic!

[Kiha66]

Well, I've been wanting an EF58 and EF15.   Does the 3020-2 version have the magnet in the nose for the head mark?   Of course the suha43 is being re-released, after all I just bought a bunch off Buyee last month. Grrrrr.....

[nah00]

Well at least they re-released the Sonic I wanted, also I may get the new power pack just to see if there's any big difference. 

[Gryphr]

The Sonic is really nice, been waiting for that too...

 

I wonder what the second part of the announcement is, as this is only the "a"-sheet, Part 1.

Possibly some super secret model? :D

 

I'm hoping for the ICE 4 they announced a while back...or maybe it's already the E235?

 

Edit: Just saw the new power pack too, appearantly it is a PWM model and even has CL capabilities...and that for the price for the old Standard one...seems to be already coming out in November?

Edited November 7, 2017 by Gryphr

[Khaul]

1 hour ago, nah00 said:

Well at least they re-released the Sonic I wanted, also I may get the new power pack just to see if there's any big difference. 

 

It looks like the new Kato power pack is PWM. It probably has a knob for constant lighting too! http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10501349. I wonder how the newish Kato C11 will run with it. Mine goes much better with the normal DC Kato controller than with the Tomix pwm. Also, it has been said how it is not a good idea to mix Kato and Tomix controllers in the same layout. The same advise may hold for the old and new Kato controllers, or not?

[serotta1972]

Ooooh, check this out! How exciting! 

 

[Kiha66]

11 minutes ago, serotta1972 said:

Ooooh, check this out! How exciting! 

 

Nice!  I just wish a 12 car set wasn't worth nearly 40,000 yen.  

[HantuBlauLOL]

49 minutes ago, Kiha66 said:

 

Nice!  I just wish a 12 car set wasn't worth nearly 40,000 yen.  

 

because it won't sell as many as japanese shinkansens, i think.

[JR 500系]

aaarrrhhh... 700T... one of the outside Japan models that I really like.. probably because it IS based on a Japanese model... Anyhow, it's way too expensive for me...

[ToniBabelony]

Oooh, a KiHa 58 re-release! Just as I was about to go for a 2nd hand set, this pops up. Nice timing :3

 

Also, JR East EF81 and 42/43/47 type coaches... Hmmmmmmmm better get saving up...

Edited November 7, 2017 by Kabutoni

[Densha]

1 hour ago, Kabutoni said:

Oooh, a KiHa 58 re-release! Just as I was about to go for a 2nd hand set, this pops up. Nice timing :3

Rather than a re-release, this is a brand-new model that looks like it will be at least to Tomix High Grade specs. It's been about 20 years since a new Kato model of the KiHa 58, and the old one sucks. I don't like the pricing though; especially if you have access to the Japanese second hand market it's rather easy to get Tomix High Grade KiHas for good prices. That also gives you a lot of possibilities for interoperability with the very extensive Tomix range. It might be worth waiting to see how everything unfolds though.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Densha

[Kiha66]

1 hour ago, Kabutoni said:

Oooh, a KiHa 58 re-release! Just as I was about to go for a 2nd hand set, this pops up. Nice timing :3

 

Actually I think these are a brand new design!  Kato released a teaser picture of the CAD model a month ago, these appear to be getting separate hoses and add on parts!  Hopefully they'll have the newer kato TNs, and be able to compete with tomix in terms of detail and lower price . I'm also crossing my fingers for DCC compatibility, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Edit: Oops, looks like Densha beat me to it! 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Kiha66

[Kamome]

Nice to see the 883 Sonic is finally worthy of a new release. I ride these every time I go to Hakata and seem to be more common than the 787s and 885s on my particular line.

 

Also keen to get the Tsubame/Hato and green EF58 but seems to be the original tooling as no item number change. I hope these have had a had a slight update with LED taillights and to accommodate new lighting kits. 

 

Great for those Kyushu train collectors.

 

Also nice to see the East Japan EF81. Is the Akebono due for a new release?

Edited November 7, 2017 by Kamome

[IST]

I am wondering the new bumpers will have some lights in it or not?

[kvp]

50 minutes ago, IST said:

I am wondering the new bumpers will have some lights in it or not?

Quote

●20-063　車止め線路A 66mm（標識灯点灯仕様）　900円+税
●20-064　車止め線路C 66mm（標識灯点灯仕様）　900円+税

According to google translate this means:

Quote

● 20-063 Car stop line A 66 mm (indicator lighting specifications) 900 yen + tax
● 20-064 Car stop line C 66 mm (Indicator lighting specifications) 900 yen + Tax

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by kvp

[Gryphr]

This seems to be a picture of the aforementioned bumpers:

 

 

There's also a picture of the new power pack in those tweets. I can't see any secondary control for the CL function though, I wonder how they implemented that.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Gryphr

[kvp]

1 hour ago, Gryphr said:

There's also a picture of the new power pack in those tweets. I can't see any secondary control for the CL function though, I wonder how they implemented that.

The difference between the N and H0 power packs seems to be that the N scale one should be around 12V, while the H0 pack should be around 16V. The controller is the same and by CL, they probably mean a PWM drive. Any PWM based controller can supply a CL system by not turning it down fully to zero. On the Tomix controllers, you can set the stationary PWM level with an extra dial. This allows the driver to just turn the handle all the way down and the controller takes the larger value from the two dials. The Rokuhan variant uses a small rotatable stop ring to set the minimal position on the main speed dial. Kato could use both of these solutions or just leave it to the user to not turn the speed knob fully down. Considering the simplicity and the price of a PWM controller, this developement is not a surprise.

 

There is one problem though, the PWM synchronization for transitioning between blocks driven by multiple controllers. If the controllers take DC voltage from the power packs, then there won't be anything to sync up to. If the packs take AC voltage and the logic syncs up to the zero crossing points (at 100 or 120 Hz), then the PWM pulses could be kept in sync even for higher pwm frequencies (like 16kHz). An alternative would be to supply DC voltage from the packs and add the sync pulses on a 3rd pin, but that would make it too complex and hard to make power packs for it. Tomix went around this in the past and used external switchover logic, so each train is switched between two packs when the train is fully in a single block by a power pack selector switch, tied to the turnout/signal logic. While this works, it's easy to make a mistake, which could result in trains suddenly speeding up or causing a short. We'll see when the new controller comes out and we'll have pictures of the outputs of power packs.

 

EDIT: The linked image indicates AC power packs at 12 and 16V and the same ones used for the sound box that is also shown there.

Edited November 7, 2017 by kvp

[katoftw]

Are the new power packs 100-240V switch mode types or still 100V only?

[Gryphr]

On the Hobbysearch description of the powerpack it says it's 100V AC...on the page of the actual AC adapters there is no mention of Input/Voltage however.

 

Probably it's 100V only, but unless Kato releases a bit more Info or their page or somewhere it's hard to say for certain

 

This page got some more up-close pictures, but the powerpacks/adaptors are lying with the probably labelled side down.

https://ameblo.jp/tamtam-oomiya/entry-12315313041.html

Edited November 7, 2017 by Gryphr

[nah00]

7 hours ago, kvp said:

 

There is one problem though, the PWM synchronization for transitioning between blocks driven by multiple controllers. If the controllers take DC voltage from the power packs, then there won't be anything to sync up to. If the packs take AC voltage and the logic syncs up to the zero crossing points (at 100 or 120 Hz), then the PWM pulses could be kept in sync even for higher pwm frequencies (like 16kHz). An alternative would be to supply DC voltage from the packs and add the sync pulses on a 3rd pin, but that would make it too complex and hard to make power packs for it. Tomix went around this in the past and used external switchover logic, so each train is switched between two packs when the train is fully in a single block by a power pack selector switch, tied to the turnout/signal logic. While this works, it's easy to make a mistake, which could result in trains suddenly speeding up or causing a short. We'll see when the new controller comes out and we'll have pictures of the outputs of power packs.

 

So would this mean if I had a double-crossover with a separate power pack for each side I have a greater chance of having a short with this type of power pack? I do have the trains slowing down/speeding up occur but after using the same power packs for so long I can generally get the throttles even. 

[Khaul]

5 hours ago, Gryphr said:

On the Hobbysearch description of the powerpack it says it's 100V AC...on the page of the actual AC adapters there is no mention of Input/Voltage however.

 

Probably it's 100V only, but unless Kato releases a bit more Info or their page or somewhere it's hard to say for certain

 

This page got some more up-close pictures, but the powerpacks/adaptors are lying with the probably labelled side down.

https://ameblo.jp/tamtam-oomiya/entry-12315313041.html

 

It looks like the AC adapter is sold separately and the controller itself is quite cheap. 

[TSK1000]

20 hours ago, HantuBlauLOL said:

 

because it won't sell as many as japanese shinkansens, i think.

Has anyone heard of any information on the THSR 700T being available for pre-order through one of the major online hobby retailers (Hobbysearch, AmiAmi)?  Usually Hobbysearch has Kato's new trains up for pre-order on the day that they announce them, but perhaps this is too niche of an item for them to bother listing/stocking it.

 

Update: Nariichi-san may have indirectly answered my question...

Edited November 8, 2017 by TSK1000

[katherinesdaddy]

I too would like to know when and where to buy

[serotta1972]

David at Loco1 has it for reservation.

 

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=loco1hobby