Kato - New Releases

[AbaZ33a]

6 hours ago, 200系 said:

 

You're more than welcome, Mark! As a fellow Shōwa era Japanese railway connoisseur, I had a tinny suspicion you might be interested as well 😉.

 

They absolutely are, aren't they? Interestingly enough, it was actually the 581 series which was the first Japanese train I actually fell in love with as a young kid, and as such was one of the series which started it all for me (as well as the 381 series, 485 series, 183 series, Odakyū 3100 series and the EF66 type, my interest in the shinkansen wouldn't take form until much later, though I fell in love with the J.N.R. shinkansen much earlier (I'm sensing a theme here😅)). 

 

So, you're more than welcome and same to you.

 

 

Date of scrapping =/= last running, it simply means the car, as this happens on a per car basis, has its car registry removed at that specific date and as such ceases to exist in any official capacity. This doesn't mean it was in active service up till that point, nor does it mean dismantling starts at that exact point, or necessarily at all, but it is removed from the books at that point and as such is no longer registered as in active service. For formation W8 that was indeed on the 10th of March, 2010 at which point the surplus cars were scrapped. However, her last scheduled service was as Nozomi 6 operating between between Hakata and Tōkyō on the morning of the 27th of February, 2010.

The actual last Nozomi services were to be operated by formation W1. She would operate both Nozomi 6 between Hakata and Tōkyō as well as the return trip, Nozomi 29 between Tōkyō and Hakata on the 28th of February 2010. Nozomi 29 would actually be the final, scheduled, 500 series Nozomi service and was treated as the official last run. Formation W8 was forwarded from Tōkyō to Hakata on the evening of the 28th of February, so that would technically make it the final W formation to operate under its own power, however this was of course a non-revenue movement. Interestingly enough, while out of service since the last run, formation W1 wouldn't be scrapped until 2012, with the first 6 cars being scrapped on the 30th of January, 2012, while the remaining 10 cars wouldn't be scrapped until the 28th of March, 2014.

 

This disparity between date of scrapping versus date of dismantling or last day in active service is actually quite common in Japan and isn't all that unusual for the shinkansen either. For example, JR Tōkai ended 100 series services on the Tōkaidō Shinkansen in September 2003, with the official last run being on the 16th of September, 2003. Yet formation G47 was only forwarded from Tōkyō to Hamamatsu on the 2nd of February, 2004 and would be scrapped on arrival at Hamamatsu. Similarly formation G49 though detained since the 16th of September, wasn't scrapped until January 2004, while formation G50 wasn't scrapped until the 1st of March, 2004. The same was true with the 0 series, as forwarding of the out of service formations after the official last run would continue into January 2009 with both R61 and R68 being scrapped on January 23rd, 2009, more than a month after the last run. The last 200 series formation, formation K51, would be scrapped on June 3rd, 2013 yet she hadn't seen service since the March 2013 timetable revision. And to give an example which is more closely related to the topic at hand, the 500 series V formations V5 and V6 were scrapped on the 12th of March of this year, yet formation V6 had been out of service since the summer of 2018 and was detained at Hakata-minami since that time. Formation V6 was dismantled in September of this year, while formation V5 is slated for, but hasn't been dismantled yet.

 

Similarly, on the conventional side, as an example out of service E351 series formations were forwarded to the Nagano vehicle center under their own power, even after they were removed from active service, as they need an active vehicle registration in order to legally operate on the mainline, with the cars being scrapped on arrival at Nagano (a very common practice for Japanese railway companies). This is also one of the reasons why for example most retired Kantō area commuter/suburban rolling stock which was already scrapped at their assigned vehicle center are transported to their dismantling site behind a locomotive rather than under their own power (if they aren't scrapped at the Tōkyō center, as Tōkyō does have a dismantling site they use) , as they wouldn't be legally allowed to operate under their own power anymore, even if they were technically still able to operate under their own power (*). 

 

This is something you should always keep in mind when using a roster, the date mentioned is probably not going to be the last date in service for that specific car, so unless you can manage to find this specific date always treat it as it should, as the exact date the car itself lost its active vehicle registry, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Cheers,

 

Sander

I always forget that the "Last Run" 500 Series Nozomi was the W1 formation. In my head I always treat the official final run as separate from the last "regular" (or unremarkable/ordinary) service as being different, which I know technically probably isn't proper I suppose. Was the W8 the last formation to operate an ordinary Nozomi service besides W1? I'm almost certain it was the last ordinary car running as a 16 car formation apart from the W1.

Edited November 23, 2022 by AbaZ33a

[200系]

Perfectly understandable, as this is quite often the case for an actual last run. However, it really depends on the individual case and for the 500 series their final runs on the 28th were basically the same 2 scheduled services they had been operating since the November 2009 timetable revision. Both Nozomi 6 and 29 were operated daily, with Nozomi 6 departing Hakata at 07:00 and arriving at Tōkyō by 12:13 after which she would operate Nozomi 29 which departed Tōkyō at 12:30 and would arrive at Hakata at 17:44 which would complete their daily roundtrip between Hakata and Tōkyō.

 

And yes you are indeed correct, formation W8 was the only other W formation besides W1 still in active service after W7 was removed from service in January of the same year. That being said, as W8 only operated the ascending service, Nozomi 6, on the 27th the descending service, Nozomi 29 had to have been operated by formation W1 which means that even if you do not count the final services on the 28th, it was still formation W1 which operated the final "ordinary" Nozomi in the end. That being said, as Nozomi 6 and 29 were regular scheduled services, even on the last day of operations, I personally consider those to be the last scheduled services for the 500 series W formations rather than the same services on the day before. Though they were special in a sense, they were still just regularly operated services and as such accessible in the same way they would've been on any other given date, though I suspect the ratio of railfan to normal passengers was slightly skewed in favor of the former on that particular date.

[Kamome]

This was one of the first Japanese trains that I saw as a kid in a pack of the Card game, Supertrain Top Trumps, back in the 80s. You essentially picked a category and had to beat your friend’s counterpart card. Can’t remember if it was a 581 or 583 but distinctly remembered its stocky face and high cab.

Also, the slightly clunky information printed on the card, it beat many other cards on its number of “engines” which were stated as 32. The only other card that beat it was the 0 series with 64. My 8 year old self trying to imagine a train that could have 64 or 32 engines (envisaging large diesel or electric power cars like the HST or TGV) and still have room for passengers. 😄

 

Certainly nice to have the Kuhane 581 at the local railway museum too which pre covid, you could sit in the bunks. 

 

Jealous of that Tomix HO version, Mark. Hope they see fit to redo it in the near future. 

[JR 500系]

Hot from the Oven 

 

Pretty safe month for me.... 

 

 

And something for those modelling USA railways ~

[Martijn Meerts]

Not modelling USA railways, but I AM getting the Big Boy 🙂

 

[railsquid]

39 minutes ago, Martijn Meerts said:

Not modelling USA railways, but I AM getting the Big Boy 🙂

 

I just came here to say almost exactly the same thing 😄

 

It was in a book of trains I had when I was little (I still have it around somewhere I think) and seemed quite impressive. For some reason I remember having the impression from the book that they were still operational, mind you checking the figures and doing the maths, it would have been less than two decades between them being retired and me reading the book. /me feels old.

 

[bill937ca]

Thirty two Big Boys were built. Seven are preserved and 4014 was restored by the Union Pacific and placed in excursion service in 2019.

 

 

[roadstar_na6]

6 hours ago, bill937ca said:

Thirty two Big Boys were built. Seven are preserved...

25 and 8.

[railsquid]

11 hours ago, railsquid said:

It was in a book of trains I had when I was little (I still have it around somewhere I think) and seemed quite impressive. For some reason I remember having the impression from the book that they were still operational, mind you checking the figures and doing the maths, it would have been less than two decades between them being retired and me reading the book. /me feels old.

 

Found it:

 

 

Published in 1974. Though British it did feature quite a lot of trains from around the world, which no doubt was a big influence...

[bill937ca]

I've a got a British book something like that called Buses,  Trolleys & Trams. Its very basic, but one of my favorite books.

[marknewton]

On 11/24/2022 at 12:24 PM, Kamome said:

Certainly nice to have the Kuhane 581 at the local railway museum too which pre covid, you could sit in the bunks. 

 

Jealous of that Tomix HO version, Mark. Hope they see fit to redo it in the near future. 

I'd be tempted to get some more cars if Tomix were to reissue them. 
 

Do you have any idea why the 583s were nicknamed "electric rice cookers". I can't see the connection... 🤔

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[katoftw]

Want the EF66. Dunno which blue car set to get. Prefer one with a Kani 24. But don't want the bigger set.

[JR 500系]

2 hours ago, bill937ca said:

I've a got a British book something like that called Buses,  Trolleys & Trams. Its very basic, but one of my favorite books.

 

You got me triggered Bill!!  😛

 

Never noticed how BIG the big boy really is until i saw the video..... MASSIVE!

[railsquid]

17 minutes ago, JR 500系 said:

Never noticed how BIG the big boy really is until i saw the video..... MASSIVE!

 

There's a reason why they are called "Big Boy" and not say "Reasonably Sizeable Boy" 😛

[bill937ca]

2 hours ago, JR 500系 said:

 

You got me triggered Bill!!  😛

 

Well. There you are Sammy.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=buses+trolleys+trams&_sacat=0

 

[Kamome]

6 hours ago, marknewton said:

Do you have any idea why the 583s were nicknamed "electric rice cookers". I can't see the connection...

I assume the large flat-fronted featureless design without windscreens as the cab is mounted above. The Japanese electric rice cookers are similar shape in that they traditionally have a featureless cream or off-white body with the buttons on the top. 

 

(I write this in fear of being brutally corrected by @200系)

 

Definitely tempted by the JR EF66 and the combination 24/14 series blue train. I can’t seem to resist them. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Kamome

[roadstar_na6]

24系 I'm getting, I already have the EF66 for it by Tomix 😄

[chadbag]

12 hours ago, Kamome said:

I assume the large flat-fronted featureless design without windscreens as the cab is mounted above. The Japanese electric rice cookers are similar shape in that they traditionally have a featureless cream or off-white body with the buttons on the top. 

 

 

Its obvious from the name isn't it.  Of course, you probablyneed to have one at home (like we do) to recognize it 🙂

 

 

[200系]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:00 AM, Kamome said:

(I write this in fear of being brutally corrected by @200系)

 

 

And thou shalt despair! For mortal, thou hast awakened that which shouldn't be awakened! Thanks to thyne insolence I am forced to correct thee in the most brutal of manners, prepare mortal!

 

No seriously, between this and Jeff's earlier post on starting a cult, I think world domination may actually be possible! I may have a bit of an image problem that may need correcting in the future.

 

But, since you asked so nicely, let's brutally correct dive a little deeper into the question at hand.

 

That being said, the denki gama, or electric rice cooker, nickname isn't so much specific to the 581/583 series as it is to a specific style of cab, which happens to have been introduced by the 581 and 583 series. That being said, the denki gama nickname was first coined after the introduction of the 485 series 200 sub-type cars (KuHa 481 type 200 sub-type and KuHa 489 type 200 sub-type cars) as well as the 183 series in 1972. As the new through-door design gave these cars a forward profile reminiscent of the standard electric rice cookers of that period, this style was nicknamed denki gama to contrast the new design with the older bonnet style. As the design was first introduced by the 581/583 series, they were sometimes retroactively referred to as denki gama style, though this nickname never applied to the entire train as far as I'm aware, with Gekkō being the more popular nickname and occasionally shokupan, though the later was more commonly used to refer to the remodeled suburban cars of the 715 series, 715 series 1000 sub-type and 419 series.

 

The nickname actually starts to make sense when you compare it to the automatic electric rice cookers available during the Shōwa 30's (1955~1964), 40's (1965~1974) and part of the 50's (1975~1984). Rice cookers of that era were more or less still based on the design of the first electric rice cooker, introduced by Tōkyō-Shibaura (Tōshiba) in 1955 (ER-4), and would generally keep the same design until the introduction of micro-processors in the Shōwa 60's (1985~1989). The design of the ER-4 and up series of electric rice cookers differs significantly from the more modern designs you mentioned, and would combine an outward tapering pot (though the top tapers inward slightly) while the lid features a noticeable inward slant, with the top part forming a much more gentle slope (1), which are pretty much the exact characteristics of the denki gama style limited express types.

 

Tōshiba ER-8 type rice cooker:

https://bunka.nii.ac.jp/heritages/detail/429852

 

Pictures of J.N.R. type rice cookers, taken from my own collection:

 

-> KuHa 189-513 part of 10 car 183/189 series formation H101 at Nikkō station on the 31st of May 2011. (author)

 

 

-> 189 series formation M51 departing Higashi Koganei on the 13th of October, 2015. (author)

 

-> KuHa 381-106, part of 4-car, Fukuchiyama based formation FE61 at Kyōto station next to 221 series formation K3. (author)

 

-> KuHaNe 581-35 (583 series) next to KuHa 489-1 at the Kyōto Railway Museum, October 7, 2019. (author)

 

-> Side view of KuHaNe 581-35 and part of the bonnet of KuHa 489-1. (author)

 

I included this one not so much to support the denki gama comparison, but rather to highlight one of the differences between the KuHaNe 581 type and the KuHaNe 583 type cars I had wanted to point out in my earlier response.

In this picture you can clearly see the equipment compartment, located aft of the crew door and behind the louvers, which was a typical feature of all KuHaNe 581 type cars. This compartment contained a motor generator and compressor and was specifically designed to keep this, noisy, equipment far away from the passenger compartment (on other new-performance cars this equipment was mounted on the underframe of the M, M' or Mc' type car (depending on the specific series), which was a feature they shared with the bonnet type limited express types (on which the motor generator and compressor were situated in the bonnet). The introduction of a more powerful, MH-129-DM88 type, 210 Kva motor generator developed for the 1970 batch of 103 series cars ( the first 103 series cars to feature air conditioning, hence the higher power requirements for the motor generator) that was needed to allow for 13 car + formations in the Tōhoku region, the older MH93B-DM55B type 150 Kva motor generators being insufficient for formations over 12 cars (only the KuHaNe 581 type cars were equipped with a motor generator, as well as the SaShi 581 type cars but this one was needed for the kitchen equipment, which would need to supply auxiliary power to the entire formation, as well as the introduction of a quieter compressor, allowed for this equipment to be mounted underfloor which would free up space for additional seating. This would be implemented on the KuHaNe 583 type which was first introduced in July of 1970, and which is why all  Aomori based 583 series formations were composed of KuHaNe 583 type cars after 1975 with the remaining KuHaNe 581 type cars being transferred to the Mukōmachi ward.

 

So yes, tldr the denki gama style cab does actually look like a period electric rice cooker.

 

On 11/24/2022 at 2:24 AM, Kamome said:

Certainly nice to have the Kuhane 581 at the local railway museum too which pre covid, you could sit in the bunks. 

 

Now, as we continue on the subject of brutal corrections (you started it yourself, I was originally going to let this one slide😅),

 

Technically KuHaNe 581-8 as preserved at the Kyūshū railway museum isn't actually KuHaNe 581-8 but KuHa 715-1. Yes she was originally built as KuHaNe 581-8, however she, like all KuHaNe 581 type cars built as part of the 581 series batches, was converted to a suburban configuration in January 1984 and would become KuHa 715-1 from that point onward.

 

Part of the remodeling to suburban type cars included widening the interior passage to the vestibule area, the addition of a second pair of folding passenger doors where the 5th side window used to be, which naturally means that the 5th side window was removed, the inclusion of long seats near the door areas, additional stanchions near these seating areas, the conversion mechanism for the box seats being disabled, the middle and upper berths being removed from the door areas (except for the remaining vestibule areas on KuHa 419 and 715 type cars), while these berths were kept in place above the remaining box seats and would simply be locked off for the remainder of their service lives and finally the inclusion of, simple, single stage ascending window pairs which would replace the large fixed windows at regular intervals (1st, 4th and 5th (former 6th) windows for the KuHa 419 type, KuHa 715 type and KuHa 715 type 1000 sub-type cars, 1st, 4th and 7th on MoHa 418 type, MoHa 714 type and MoHa 714 type 1000 sub-type cars, 2nd, 5th and 8th for the MoHa 715 type and MoHa 715 type 1000 sub-type cars and finally the 2nd, 4th and 7th windows on KuMoHa 419 type, KuHa 715 type 100 sub-type and KuHa 715 type 1100 sub-type cars) giving these cars a rather cheap and chaotic look, gloriously so! They more or less retained their original equipment with the largest difference being the gear ratios being changed from a ratio of 22:77 on the MoHaNe 580/582/581/583 type cars to a ratio of 15:84 on the suburban units which increased acceleration rates for the suburban units at the expense of a lower maximum speed, it also gave these units their characteristic explosive sound courtesy of the MT54 traction motors plus their drive system operating at a much higher rotational speed (relative to the operating speed) when compared to the MT54's on other limited express and suburban type units [note1].

 

The 715 series 0 sub-type cars would be mainly used for suburban stopping services on the Nagasaki main line, and Sasebo line, which would include KuHa 715-1. And though these cars were intended to last for only 8 years post conversion, they were intended as a cheap stopgap after all, all of them would last for at least 13, all cars being retired between 1996 and 1998, 15 years after the first conversion was completed. KuHa 715-1 was retained and eventually preserved at the Kyūshū railway museum, obviously, but though the Kyūshū railway museum has tried to restore her back to her original guise, which includes being repainted in her original livery, the restoration of some of the details, her original car number etc. she is fundamentally still in the same configuration as she retired in, including her interior as well as the external changes I mentioned earlier. So yea, though she's technically preserved as a KuHaNe 581 type car, in actuality she's closer to her 715 series guise. Which is why I think it is a bit of a shame they somewhat restored her into her original guise, she's the sole remaining representative of any of the 419 series, 715 series and 715 series 1000 sub-type cars as KuHa 418-1, which had been retained as sort of a gate guard at Nippon Sōgō was thrown into the press last year(literally, don't look it up please, I'm still sort of scarred by the footage I managed to find of that thing...), and as such would've held more historical importance in her as retired state, at least in my opinion. Though those units weren't the most flashy, glamorous or even beautiful units to ever see service, they did play an important part in the transportation of commuters in the Nagasaki, Sendai and Sea of Japan areas as well as giving a large number of surplus 581/583 series cars a second lease of life.

 

-> JR Kyūshū 715 series formation arriving and departing Nagasaki station sometime in the 90's. The shot of the KuHa 715 type 100 sub-type car starting 0:53, perfectly demonstrates why the suburban cars were nicknamed shokupan, or plain bread.

 

-> Just because I wanted to, a internal sound recording taken on a KuMoHa 419 type car, simply to showcase the glorious sound produced by these units.

 

Cheers!

 

 

[note 1] As they, like all National Railway new-performance cars, were fitted with a hollow shaft parallel cardan drive, it is actually the rpm of the traction motor itself which determines the sound produced by the drive system. As the cardan joint itself is routed through the armature of the traction motor the deflection plates on both ends of the cardan joint (one at the armature side, and another on the pinion side) are cross shaped which , together with the traction fan on the deflection plate side of the traction motor, produce the characteristic sound usually associated with this drive system. As such with the traction motor rotating at a much higher rpm in comparison to the others, the sound became even more pronounced when compared to their sisters. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by 200系

[Kamome]

If you were in any doubt about the nickname

 

https://togetter.com/li/468737

[chadbag]

On 12/3/2022 at 7:38 PM, 200系 said:

correct thou

 

"correct thee"

 

just sayin'

 

[200系]

Duly noted, and corrected.

[chadbag]

3 hours ago, chadbag said:

 

"correct thee"

 

just sayin'

 

 

 

As an aside, for those without a master's degree in "16th century English":   (I'll reference German here since they actually follow this still while English just has "you"/"your" all around) -- (Not that I have such a degree either)

 

singular

 

thou is the subject or nominative case for "you".  "Thou shouldst go to bed."   "Thou art finished, I say!".   Equivalent to German "Du"

 

thee is the object or accusative case for "you".    "I givest thee a black eye!"    "Thou art a numbskull, I must correcteth thee".  Equivalent to German "Dich"

 

thine is the possessive for "your".    "Thine attention wouldst be required".  Equivalent to German "Dein"

 

plural

 

ye is the subject or nominative case for "you" [plural].   "Ye art vipers of the first degree!".  Equivalent to German "Ihr"

 

you is the object or accusative case for "you" [plural].  " I giveth you -- Sir Galahad!"    (meaning I present to you [plural] -- Sir Galahad -- who now comes on stage).  Equivalent to German "Euch"

 

I assume possessive is "your" in plural in middle English.

I also did not talk about the "Dative" or indirect object case.  I suspect "thee" is also used in Dative singular, equivalent to "Dir" and that "you" is used in dative plural, euivalent to German "Euch"

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by chadbag

[cteno4]

This just makes the dyslexic part if my brain hurt, but the rest of my brain was fascinated…

 

jeff

[roadstar_na6]

3 hours ago, chadbag said:

"I givest thee a black eye!"

This would be a case of "dir" in German tho 😄