Kato - New Releases

[cbet]

On 5/9/2021 at 11:45 AM, Yavianice said:

@GCS these are the item numbers of the bodies for the cabin cars of the ICE with green stripe.

 

- 74181-2A

- 74186-2A

 

both will retail for 3100 yen before tax.

@Yavianiceclarifying question.  Are these just the shell of the two end cars (green stripe ICE4) to replace the red stripe ICE 4 cabin cars?  No electronics or lighting inside right?

 

[Yavianice]

1 hour ago, cbet said:

@Yavianiceclarifying question.  Are these just the shell of the two end cars (green stripe ICE4) to replace the red stripe ICE 4 cabin cars?  No electronics or lighting inside right?

 

Just the shells. 

[disturbman]

Not knowing if everyone would read the UK thread, there was an article giving an interesting number about the size of Kato (and probably Tomix) production runs.

a standard Kato production run being around 10,000 units

Source: https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/review-kato-hitachi-class-800

[jappomania]

35 minutes ago, disturbman said:

Not knowing if everyone would read the UK thread, there was an article giving an interesting number about the size of Kato (and probably Tomix) production runs.
 

Source: https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/review-kato-hitachi-class-800

 

I think is right, I talked about this years ago with my friend Naoto (ex Rainbowten and now President/CEO of Rocket Models) when we met in Bologna, normally the limit is not less than 3000pcs if you wanna cover the project and mold cost, a little less for re-run if it don't require the license renew otherwise the cost goes over the limit (and sometime the license is the biggest problem),
this was for "simple" plastic kit, for complete and more complex models like train models surely the "low limit" is much higher for the japanese market price target (and the reason because the european models cost is double or triple for 800-1000pcs production)

 

ciao!

Massimo

 

[railsquid]

The other interesting thing about Kato is that they manage to produce their trains to those prices entirely within a G7 country.

[Kiha66]

Interesting review, It was nice to see a detailed review but I got the feeling they were almost trying to find faults with kato, as it wasn't a british or established european company.  Kinda hard to defend a 4 car set costing $600 when better running Japanese train is less than $200 for more cars....

[Kiha66]

29 minutes ago, railsquid said:

The other interesting thing about Kato is that they manage to produce their trains to those prices entirely within a G7 country.

 

I'm amazed how many US modelers refuse to believe this.  My local store is adamant they're lying and actually produce everything in china.  There's a reason I don't shop there much anymore... (their prices getting closer to MSRP don't help either)

Edited May 16, 2021 by Kiha66

[Kamome]

I think the British model producers need a shake up. I heard Ken Patterson talking about Kato entering the American market some years ago and that generally improved the quality of models from other manufacturers. There are some great looking models in N from Farish and Dapol but all seem to have had major mechanical issues across certain models in the past and prices are pretty much the same as the 00 equivalent. My father, who models 00, has been pretty envious of the features and quality of my n scale Japanese trains for many years.  

 

Viva la revolution!

 

10 hours ago, Kiha66 said:

 

I'm amazed how many US modelers refuse to believe this.  My local store is adamant they're lying and actually produce everything in china.  There's a reason I don't shop there much anymore... (their prices getting closer to MSRP don't help either)

 

Interestingly, Tomix have shifted more of their production back to Japan, possibly due to logistic challenges of getting QC personnel back and forth to China when Japan are limiting incoming flights. I guess also competing with a plucky little domestic manufacturer going from strength to strength.

[katoftw]

9 hours ago, Kamome said:

 

Interestingly, Tomix have shifted more of their production back to Japan, possibly due to logistic challenges of getting QC personnel back and forth to China when Japan are limiting incoming flights. I guess also competing with a plucky little domestic manufacturer going from strength to strength.

Way before covid did model businesses start shifting. The 2015-16 model factory saga like how microace nearly got driven into the ground by dodgey chinese business practices. Yes cheap production, but no protections also.

[cteno4]

Tomix also has Tomy behind it so more muscle in the Chinese factory market. But it can be a very fickle market to play in even if you have a lot of business. on-site qa and also just factory oversite costs can add up quickly as well.

 

jeff

[Yavianice]

Seems KATO has acknowledged their seat layout error in the 800 GWR. They are now working to setup replacements. @roadstar_na6 shared it on the JNS Discord.

 

 

[Kiha66]

I don't think any other company outside of japan would do this, it's always impressive to see such high level customer service! 

[Madsing]

On 4/3/2021 at 6:34 PM, Kamome said:

I have the Azusa/Kaiji 10-433/10-434

and the Boso colour E257 500 10-1282.

Neither were DCC friendly.

 

Interestingly, reading the PDF of the newer Azusa release, the cab end with the walkway has the same twist on\off switch so may not take a Kato decoder. 

 

On 4/3/2021 at 6:49 PM, katoftw said:

I find Kato describing DCC friendly misleading. One aspect maytake a decoder, they they list it as DCC friendly.

 

So this model will take a decoder for the interior lights, so this will be the reason for the description.

 

Some trains take a decoder for the end cab directional lights only, and not the motor car. And get the same description also etc etc.

 

Coming back to the Kato 10-1614 Series E257-2500 `Odoriko` Five Car Set.

https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/e257_2000

The web page now reads "DCCフレンドリー(先頭車のみ対応)", that Google translates as "DCC friendly (only for the first car)". This is not very clear, but I guess that means that the motor car will not be compatible with EM13, correct?

[Kamome]

19 minutes ago, Madsing said:

 

 

Coming back to the Kato 10-1614 Series E257-2500 `Odoriko` Five Car Set.

https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/e257_2000

The web page now reads "DCCフレンドリー(先頭車のみ対応)", that Google translates as "DCC friendly (only for the first car)". This is not very clear, but I guess that means that the motor car will not be compatible with EM13, correct?

A bit pointless then and you’ll probably  find the connecting end with door won’t accept the Kato decoder either. 

 

So by the same logic, all Kato trains are DCC friendly as you can add the FR-11 for the in car lighting. 

[Madsing]

Ok, that’s why they mention « only for the first car ». The connecting car with the door does not even take the headlight decoder. As you say, it is a bit pointless then. 
Thank you for the details. 

[katoftw]

Wouldnt be surprized if first car mean cab cars. But with lost-in-translation, could be anything.

 

But again reaffirms what I said about Kato using their DCC icon on trains that arent fully DCC, it is misleading.

[Kamome]

So Kato must believe that any DCC users would purchase the full consist, 9 car and 5 car and then be happy to hardwire in 2 motor decoders. Perhaps the n scale DCC market is just way too small for them to worry about it.

[gavino200]

7 minutes ago, Kamome said:

So Kato must believe that any DCC users would purchase the full consist, 9 car and 5 car and then be happy to hardwire in 2 motor decoders. Perhaps the n scale DCC market is just way too small for them to worry about it.

 

Well, in fairness, yes we would do that. We might curse and complain a bit. But that's pretty much what we do. 

[Kamome]

Just now, gavino200 said:

 

Well, in fairness, yes we would do that. We might curse and complain a bit. But that's pretty much what we do. 

Sounds like the British way. Buy it but not be happy about it. 😂

[katoftw]

2 hours ago, gavino200 said:

Well, in fairness, yes we would do that. We might curse and complain a bit. But that's pretty much what we do. 

Doesnt make it DCC compatible though does it?

[gavino200]

7 hours ago, katoftw said:

Doesnt make it DCC compatible though does it?

 

Definitely not fully. They probably need to add a new category, "Not completely DCC hostile, but not quite friendly either", or "it's complicated".

[Madsing]

The EM13, FL12 and FR11 are Kato’s products. Why don’t they clearly mention in the web page which cars take which decoders? That would not be difficult at all.

[EdF]

Aren't a lot of these non-EM13 models still compatible more or less with the same boards as the freight locos?  I don't think Kato has yet rereleased a train that wasn't EM13 friendly as EM13 friendly later on, so the update to the end cars is nice, though only if you buy all 14.

[gavino200]

10 hours ago, EdF said:

Aren't a lot of these non-EM13 models still compatible more or less with the same boards as the freight locos?  

 

I don't think so. It's really very random. 

[katoftw]

Frieght loco and EMU boards are very different.