My project begins

[KenS]

Grades are simply rise / run.  Multiply by 100 to get percent.

 

I'm guessing "2 x 317 - 45c" means two 45-degree 317mm radius curves. Length of those would be (2x 3.1415 x 317) / (90/360) = 498.  Add that in, and your run is 140 + (498) + 140 = 778mm. With a rise of 60mm, then 60/778 x 100 = 7.7%, which is rather steep.  And grades on a curve are worse than straight grades, because you're losing power pulling sideways.

 

I'll second The_Ghan on grade.  Kato rates their trains to work on 4% grades.  Steeper may work, but it's going to depends on things like how many cars there are in the train, and what you use to clean your track (some cleaners leave a slippery residue). And unless you're doing mountain railroading, steep grades aren't all that prototypical.  I'm not sure how steep Japanese grades can get, but I've rarely seen much steeper than 20/1000 (Japanese grades are typically given in per-mil rather than per-cent) or 2%.  Using 4% may be a necessary compromise on a model railroad, but steeper is asking for trouble.

 

You mentioned a smoother, more even slope.  If you can, it's good to transition into a steeper grade using a short section of a lesser grade.  E.g., if the grade is going to be 6%, it may actually be better to make the first and last segments (those 140mm bits) 3% and the middle section a bit more than 6%.  If you can, the transitional part should be longer than the longest car.  The formal term for this is "vertical easement", although technically that refers to a vertical curve of a certain shape.  If you use plywood subroadbed cut out in the "cookie cutter" method (so it's continuous), pulling up one end will cause it to form a vertical curve that works as an easement, but unless you use flex track you won't get the benefit of that.  But an intermediate-angle grade probably works nearly as well as a transition and is much easier to do with sectional track like Kato or Tomix.

 

Googling about a bit, one thing I found was a thread discussing these that suggested that WS makes an "incline starter" that creates an easement.  I'm not sure it really is, but I'd oddly missed these in my previous work with WS grades.

[keitaro]

i re measured and it's now 37 - 38 mm approx maybe a tad less hard to measure due to outside of mountain being higher due to ground cover than inside. i measured the highest point just before the bridge inside the mountain so i had only 1 hand to measure. so going by your measurements it would be approx 4.8%

 

the other side it 35mm but i don't run in that direction.

 

Still too steep i measured the height before i made the change and it was 45mm so the change is much appreciated by the train.

 

Like i said all trains can handle it except my ma ones. not including my dd51 1805 sakura. which pulled a freight train up by itself. the same freight you see in the videos in previous posts.

 

I have my 15 car sera set soon i wonder how it will like that 

 

Although i plan on pulling that with 2 d62's from realine and not on this layout in the future. I know not prototypical but i like 2 steamers working together.

[The_Ghan]

Keitaro,

 

As KenS said, "Kato rates their trains to work on 4% grades."  That's why I work to 3.5%, to keep within their specified tolerances.  On curves, the inside rail is technically running at steeper than 3.5% because its shorter.  But because I have 0.5% up my sleeve I'm still under 4%, probably well under.

 

I am surprised your MicroAce consists aren't pulling up the grade.  I suggest you set up a 2 or 3m length of straight track and test what they CAN do before you build any more. 

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

ahh yes. i won't be having any steep grades on my next layout like this as it will have more room. i may see if i can carve a bit of the rock and shave a few more mm down. shouldn't be noticeable if the bridge is right above it.

 

on another note i bought the kato 11-702 couplers and they un couple on the hill too haha the micro trains ones don't i may have to look into MT the whole lot in the future.

 

 

btw very very nice model runs well at low voltages as low as 20 on the dial. the video is running at 25 out of 100

 

[keitaro]

base ball field prep.

 

So I was thinking with my next order from hs at end of this month I will add 3 packs of this fence. http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10112242

 

I was thinking of getting 3 of the larger ones and glue together 1 smaller fence glue to slant inwards or just add straight to give more height approx 5cm high. but I was thinking it may be un realistically high?

 

thoughts anyone?

[KenS]

Note that this fence is printed on plastic, which may be hard to cut evenly and glue like that.  The plastic can also be visible if it catches the light right, which is more likely with an angled fence than one that's simply a straight line.

 

The fence itself actually looks quite good.  I used it on my expressway as a side fence over railroad tracks, and you don't really notice the plastic unless you look for it.

 

Gluing it is also a bit problematic; I haven't figured out the right glue for it, but styrene cement doesn't seem to work.

[keitaro]

Thanks ken. I can't find a suitable fence for the field. I tried local hobby shops and nothing there.

[cteno4]

Keitaro,

 

you might try your local craft store and look for wire mesh ribbon. it comes in like 1"-4" wide rolls. its basically like a chain link fence. then you just have to cut it carefully in strips and glue it between some uprights you can make out of thin wire. i got lucky last fall and got like 4 rolls of 3" and 4" wide stuff on close out for like $1 each (big score).

 

if you want to stiffen/flatten it more you can mount it to a very thin piece of acetate (like the stuff used on overhead projectors) and  put the acetate towards the less seen side. stuff can be colored with a marker.

 

another though i had with the stuff that i never tried was to use a piece of something like 040 square stryene strips glued to the bottom edge to make it straight. then bury the strip on the bottom in the dirt so you just see the fencing.

 

i have a short section somewhere i made ill try and dig it out and take a few picts.

 

Ken is right the acetate printed fence can catch light and look odd at the wrong angles. i use to use the same technique in exhibit models with pin tape on acetate to make 3/4" scale stanchions and rails for hand rails. was very quick to make them and keep them all parallel, but it was always a challenge to get all the lights right when shooting the scene to not get a reflection.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[keitaro]

Double switches *sigh

 

anyway i have had an issue with my c11 getting over the double switch. I couldn't work out why as all other models i have work fine.

 

I finally worked it out.

 

So on one side where the track swicgs it looks as though it's touching the track but it's not.

 

Pic 1 before shot.

 

So after running thomas on 2 wheels i have found that no power works between the joint and a small piece of plastic Marked green in the pic.

 

This doesn't harm any models except my c11 from MA.

 

Pic 2.

 

I can't accept this so i did a quick fix. i placed a touch of solder to the side of the outer track so it will make contact properly.

 

Issue resolved.

 

Pic 3.

 

Ghan this is what i was telling you about. I find they get dirty and cause the trains to jerk sometime when passing over. Cleaning them is required often to keep a smooth run.

 

I'm working on brass sides to go along the plastic wall and allow the wheel to pick up power from there thus removing the need fo those pieces to be clean.

[Martijn Meerts]

Looks about the same problems I've had with pretty much all my minitrix turnouts, and the reason why I'm now spending a little extra time modifying and soldering several leads to the Peco turnouts.

[keitaro]

Issues i'v noticed with switches mainly the double one.

 

- The track that switches doesn't have a strong enough spring.

I.e you can move it out of place quite easily and it has little momentum to spring back most of the time it will but it really needs to be a strong hold.

 

This would cause less derails if it were harder to move via finger and had more spring to it as some times the train can move the track out of place as it's too loose and derails.

(in particular switches that are close to curves)

 

- the double switch pickup metal brackets as mentioned in pic 3 get dirty too easy, and are a pain to clean.

 

- the 3 way switch the second front one is very small and is more than the 15 degree it says when using that turn and can have issues with "some" models that don't like sharper curves also on some single axel freight cars.

 

 

* would be great to see "all manuifacturers" put more effort into a solid switch

[Martijn Meerts]

One problem is that most turnouts are still switched by coil driven switch motors, and those just don't have a lot juice, especially not in the miniature size normally used in N-scale. On top of that, when they switch, they switch with high speed, and can cause the point rails to bounce back ever so slightly. This bouncing back is a problem that often cause derailing on the minitrix turnouts on our old layout, especially steamers were very vulnerable to that.

 

Using turnout motors like the tortoise, or a servo solves most issues with turnouts. The disadvantage there though, it that they're a lot harder to install, and require more wiring in general. They're also more expensive than most coil driven motors, and of course, they don't necessarily work with all track types. 

 

In my opinion though, the extra work and cost is worth it, because malfunctioning turnouts is what annoys me the most on a layout. Some 95% of the problems we had on the old layout were related to turnouts, be it them not switching well, or them loosing power.

[keitaro]

This bouncing back is a problem that often cause derailing on the minitrix turnouts on our old layout, especially steamers were very vulnerable to that.

 

This is why it would be nice for a stronger spring in each direction it switches to hold still better.

the front 2 wheels on the steamer that are loose for example on a 9600 or d51 etc they wiggle about to much and this causes the track to move as well

[Martijn Meerts]

The problem with stronger springs, is that the coil based turnout motors might not have enough power to switch them. Unless they make them bigger, which wouldn't work with finetrack and unitrack, and would look weird with all other turnouts =)

[The_Ghan]

Keitaro,

 

I get what you mean with the dirty part on the double points.  It can create jerky motion if the train skips over it.  The train relies on the edge of the flange for pickup at that point.  If the flange is not in proper contact with the flat piece it won't pick up properly.  Perhaps lightly sanding that triangular wedge-wall just above the area you've circled might fix the problem.  It could result in better contact between the flange and the pick-up strip which might also keep that strip cleaner.

 

Just a thought.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[cteno4]

Keitaro,

 

have you tried to see if you switch the crossover manually and have it perfect does it pick the point? if not and it seems to pick on the electrical firing you might try the BCD circuit on it as its designed to give that perfect pop of energy to snap the coil over without rattle or bounce back.

 

i use to have this problem with the old atlas switches and their manual momentary slide switch controllers. if i would lean on them just a bit too long many would do a funny bounce back and not be totally blade against the rail. i got good at doing a quick slide my thumb across the switch to get a really short contact to get more stable firing. of course the kato and tomix mechanical controls strive to give a uniform pulse, but it manual and the double crossover takes more power than a single point. of course you would need to use 4x the capacitance for the crossover with the bcd.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[keitaro]

finally got both tobu 1700 and 1720  :grin :grin :grin

 

heres a video done on my canon 7d bit unfocussed as i suck at focusing manually.

 

anyone know if the MA lights kits have flicker issues? i need to set these up with lights.

 

[The_Ghan]

That soup bowl seems to becoming a permanent fixture ...  :grin

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

That soup bowl seems to becoming a permanent fixture ...  :grin

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

I'm trying to grow more clump foilage in there but they havn't grown at all. 

 

I'm really trying to get the motivation to finish the darn base ball field and ground. So I can finish up the shrubbery and detail.

[inobu]

That soup bowl seems to becoming a permanent fixture ...  :grin

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

I'm trying to grow more clump foilage in there but they havn't grown at all. 

 

I'm really trying to get the motivation to finish the darn base ball field and ground. So I can finish up the shrubbery and detail.

 

The problem has to be the Keitaro sprinkler system for the foilage and I would threaten KCC (Keitaro Construction Company) with a lawsuit if they don"t finish the field. I'm having the same problem with IIC (Inobu International Construction). It appears he takes on more jobs then he can handle. The bad thing is he does not answer me e-mails.

 

Inobu  

[keitaro]

currently checking online for a better contractor 

[keitaro]

and i found one.

 

He even started the base ball field and laid the grass in the diamond for the batter to the bases.

 

Just need some suitable dirt from nearest park or bush area to complete the rest of the ground.

 

Also i laid down the foot path around the baseball field to the station and the 2nd platform.

 

cut the fence out as well and when i get the ground finised will place fence up and some players and attach a pic.

[keitaro]

i havn't put fence up yet but here's a pic

[Tecchan]

I^m always impressed on how fast you build your layout and how you wonk on it.

Very inspiring!

[keitaro]

just a small video update.

 

fixed fence a path and some ground and trees.