Kato "DCC Friendly" Database

[jozasa]

 

10 hours ago, gavino200 said:

It looks like you've done a very nice install. We'd really benefit from knowing more about how you did it. It's nice to have more options than just the standard EM13. 

 

To install a Loksound (ref. ESU 58813) in the motor car, this is what I did:

 

Open the train and take the train cover away. (I always mark how the train cover goes in again in the same factory position)

Slide away the motor cover from the bottom of the coach

You will see how the motor is connected to the copper strips. And you will see there is obviously no room for the Loksound and its speaker

Gently take one bogie off by slightly twisting and pulling it and then sliding it off from the motor and copper strips. Notice how those copper strips are loose at the ends!

Now drill a hole in the metal frame and plastic seat-frame to pass the wires of the decoder. I did it carefully with my Dremel.

I took away the motor connection rounded copper strips, bent them straight in one side and soldered the decoder motor leads to them. Then, isolate them with some kapton tape, so they can't touch the long copper strips any more. Be sure you have passed the wires through the drilled hole first, of course (see pic)

Re-arrange everything again as it was. Make sure you don't fix down the ends of the long copper strips, they must be loose or a short-circuit will occur! (it's an easy mistake, shown in the pic)

For the track connection you could also solder the decoder wires to the long copper strips passing them through the hole. But, since I was also installing lights, I took advantage of the Kato sliding copper strips in the 11-214 kit, and soldered the decoder track wires to them in the seat section.

Fix the decoder and the speaker in the seat section with some double-sided adhesive tape in appropriate positions

Finally, test that everything works in your layout and re-attach the coach cover

For the sound package, I made some modifications to the free ICE3 file available in ESU and fried it in with the Lokprogrammer/Decoder Tester, before install

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by jozasa

[gavino200]

Thanks, Jozasa. That's a great write up. It's always especially helpful to include potential pitfalls and difficult points. I think this is a great addition to the database. 

[jozasa]

Thanks gavino!

 

Another possibility to install DCC+sound in the Saphir, is indeed to fit the EM-13 (motor car) and the 2 FL-12 (end coaches) as Kato intended. You could use the Kato originals or the Kato-Lemke "Zimo Kit" ref. K10950-D1 that came out with the ICE4

And then install the Loksound+speaker in another car, just fixing the decoder track wires to the sliding copper strips of the Kato 11-214 lighting kit

This way you also get Railcom, for those who like it.

Less hassle for sure, although more expensive...

 

It's nice that ESU has prepared a "Kato sound decoder", ref. 58731 (not yet available here) and I'm curious how it will work. From the documentation I see, you'd have to buy the speaker separately and fry the sound file once it's installed in the loco through the Lokprogrammer.

 

Also Zimo has come out with a sound decoder in EM-13 style, ref. MX605. It's also available as a set (ref. K10950-DS), together with 2 MX605SL for the end coaches (=FL-12) and the speaker.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by jozasa

[nicolahu]

I have used the list now a couple of times (thx for all the contributers) but somehow i missed some trains with the status unknown.

 

The D51-200 Yamaguchi (10-1499) is for the most part like any D51 from Kato, but the top from the tender makes the room smaller because of the step. For a decoder with speaker it is a pretty thight fit, for me it didn't work with a Digitrax sound decoder. I ordered the top from a D51-200 as spare part and that did the trick, without sound there is enough space, what could also work is reducing the cable length of the speaker.

 

The E001 (10-1447) is DCC-ready, that's it for this one XD

[godoc92]

Hi I was thinking of changing my layout from DC to DCC (since I have to rebuilt it) And I was wondering if anybody knows if the Kashima Rinkai Railway Type 6000 (have all the models) is dcc friendly, dcc ready and/or if there is any video instructions in how to make them dcc.

Thanks in advance

[chadbag]

27 minutes ago, godoc92 said:

Hi I was thinking of changing my layout from DC to DCC (since I have to rebuilt it) And I was wondering if anybody knows if the Kashima Rinkai Railway Type 6000 (have all the models) is dcc friendly, dcc ready and/or if there is any video instructions in how to make them dcc.

Thanks in advance

 

Not listed as such by KATO except for interior lighting, which would use the FR11 decoders.  I did not go check mine as it is put away but did look it up on KATO and Hobby Search websites.

 

Of course, hardwiring the decoder in, as is often the case, is probably not all that hard.

 

 

[JanW]

3 hours ago, chadbag said:

Of course, hardwiring the decoder in, as is often the case, is probably not all that hard.

Indeed, it is not that hard although it can be a fiddly job.  I am currently converting a 8-car E351 set "Super Azusa" . Here a picture of the motorcar with a Doehler & Haass decoder. These are really tiny! 
The complication is how to wire the interior lights. I used a non-Kato light bar. Power pick-up simply uses the same bronze strips as the interior lights use and solder the red and black wires to them. 
The motor power clips are hold down and on to the power bus bars by a white plastic clip. You will need to temporarily remove that and bend the motor clips up. This allows to insert small pieces of kapton tape to provide isolation between the motor and the bus bars. I just soldered the orange and grey wires to the motor clips and bended the motor clips back and fastened with the same plastic clip again.  Make sure and test that the motor connections are isolated from the bus bars left and right. 

For the interior lighting I used the white wire from the decoder to power the interior lights and make them switchable. You need to tweak some CV's to make that work because the white wire is normally used for the front lights and are switched off when driving backwards. 

Every carriage will pose their own little challenges, so some ingenuity is sometimes needed!  In the case of the motor car (photo), I could make use of the carriage section without windows to hide the decoder and prevent it is clearly visible from the outside with the interior lights on. 

See also my other posting about how to make front and rear lights work with DCC decoders without altering the circuit on the printed circuit that houses the LEDs. 
 

[Brennan91]

I have a Hachiko/Kawagoe line 205-3000 series that I converted with an EM13 recently. It works great, but you definitely need to solder it. I don’t have the lighting decoders but I assume they should be fine.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Brennan91

[EdF]

4 hours ago, Brennan91 said:

I have a Hachiko/Kawagoe line 205-3000 series that I converted with an EM13 recently. It works great, but you definitely need to solder it. I don’t have the lighting decoders but I assume they should be fine.

So it took the EM13, but was loose and needed solder, or you made it work by soldering on wires?  Does it have pockets on the head/tail cars for the fl12 chips?

[chadbag]

5 hours ago, Brennan91 said:

I have a Hachiko/Kawagoe line 205-3000 series that I converted with an EM13 recently. It works great, but you definitely need to solder it. I don’t have the lighting decoders but I assume they should be fine.

 

If it is one that is made for the EM13 you shouldn't have to solder it at all.   None of my EM13 compatible trains have had any problems and needed solder.

[Brennan91]

32 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

If it is one that is made for the EM13 you shouldn't have to solder it at all.   None of my EM13 compatible trains have had any problems and needed solder.

You would think, but it was weird. It didn’t have enough space on the contacts because there were bumps on either side. It would only touch on one point. I’ll put a picture at some point.

[Brennan91]

2 hours ago, EdF said:

So it took the EM13, but was loose and needed solder, or you made it work by soldering on wires?  Does it have pockets on the head/tail cars for the fl12 chips?

It wouldn’t quite fit, as I said in the other post. I didn’t open up the other cars so I don’t know about the light decoders.

[EdF]

This is just head/tail, if they are fl12 compatible it's a door on the bottom, no need to open the cars.  

[Brennan91]

1 hour ago, EdF said:

This is just head/tail, if they are fl12 compatible it's a door on the bottom, no need to open the cars.  

I just checked, no door. Would it still be compatible without major soldering? Like if I did it inside the cab or something? (I am relatively new to Japanese trains and Kato’s compatibility with DCC so I want to make sure)

Edited August 14, 2021 by Brennan91

[Brennan91]

Here’s the picture of it, and a close up. The contacts in the middle are sunken down a little and are not long enough for the decoder, and if you try to fit it in it only touches at one spot. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Brennan91

[EdF]

That is a braver install than I would attempt.  The EM13 compatible chassis have bottom access and the board slides in.  The 205 is not such, and people usually(always?) use other boards in this case.  The head/tail lights will be intricate at best, and other boards than fl12 would probably be better.

[Brennan91]

9 hours ago, EdF said:

That is a braver install than I would attempt.  The EM13 compatible chassis have bottom access and the board slides in.  The 205 is not such, and people usually(always?) use other boards in this case.  The head/tail lights will be intricate at best, and other boards than fl12 would probably be better.

Yeah, me and my dad were confused by the motor and the picture on the EM13 instructions. Fortunately he does electrical projects like this all the time(and it’s not even his job!) so this was pretty straightforward. Honestly I don’t know much about the decoders out there, any ones you would recommend for the lights?

[chadbag]

18 hours ago, Brennan91 said:

You would think, but it was weird. It didn’t have enough space on the contacts because there were bumps on either side. It would only touch on one point. I’ll put a picture at some point.

 

I suspect it is not really EM13 compatible.  One of mine, I believe one of the KATO Hankyu EMUs, looks like it should be EM13 compatible, but the slot is the wrong size and IIRC (been a few years) has some little bumps as well...  This one may be the same story

 

 

[Brennan91]

49 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

I suspect it is not really EM13 compatible.  One of mine, I believe one of the KATO Hankyu EMUs, looks like it should be EM13 compatible, but the slot is the wrong size and IIRC (been a few years) has some little bumps as well...  This one may be the same story

 

 

Yeah that’s probably the case. Either way, it still works fine with a decent solder job.

[JanW]

On 8/14/2021 at 6:36 PM, chadbag said:

I believe one of the KATO Hankyu EMUs, looks like it should be EM13 compatible, but the slot is the wrong size and IIRC (been a few years) has some little bumps as well.

I have a Keikyu line EMU with similar challenges. It seems DCC ready but the slot is a few millimetre too short. So I machined part of the metal frame away and could slot the EM13 (well, the Zimo version of it) in. It worked like a dream!  Strangely enough, the decoder for head an tail lights could be slotted in just like any other DCC ready train. 

In the case of soldering: I that case I would have used a cheaper wired decoder in. Like a Doehler & Haass or similar. 

[Jack]

Update to Kato "DCC Friendly" Database.

 

My Kato 3061-1 EF65-1000 took a DN164K4a

[EdF]

5 hours ago, Jack said:

Update to Kato "DCC Friendly" Database.

 

My Kato 3061-1 EF65-1000 took a DN164K4a

 

It's listed as a dn163k0a, the contacts are very different between the 2.  Can you post a picture, I can accept that the sheet is wrong, a pic would settle it.  To my knowledge 3061-x should all be the same.  Though the 3061-4 is listed as a k4a.  Unfortunately it doesn't look like I can see version history on the sheet.  Does anyone know if that should work on sheets without paying for it?  Maybe it's just not on the phone?

 

Ed

 

edit, It's just not on the phone, I added the 3061s all on Oct 5 2018, when I created the sheet, so it could be wrong.

Edited June 27, 2022 by EdF
clarity

[Jack]

Please add a Kato 7008-C DD51 1034 to your data base. The engine only needs to have a Digitrax DN163K4a, with slight modification of the kapton tape, and tape on the outsides of the motot tabs for insulation

[Kiha66]

Interesting, did you have to modify the light pipes in your model?  I used the suggested DN163K1D in my DD51 (7008-7), but that requires trimming one light pipe.  I suspect the DN163K4a would fit better.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Kiha66

[EdF]

Might this indicate all of these locos use the narrow, dn163k4a, type board?

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/image/10899519

 

Ed