MicroAce - New Releases

[HantuBlauLOL]

imho tomytec models are too "plastic" looking. they need some washes and weathering, especially on their underfloor.

[Densha]

I agree that Tomytec models in general are more plastic looking than MA ones. Considering that it looks like that I can use Greenmax motor units, there is still a 5000 yen price difference for (slightly) better detailing and lightning. That's still a lot of money, but I know that I won't be hacking lightning into my Tomytec models and the detailing is probably better as well. Hmm....

[ToniBabelony]

I think the paint quality of MicroAce is higher than Tomytec, or at least a more fancy metallic paint is used. As far as the lettering and thin prints is concerned, MicroAce is also better, as Tomytec doesn't really print so very accurate. I noticed some qualify differences between several of the same train types that I have here. A bit of a shame, but when looking at it from a distance, it's not noticeable at all. For me personally this isn't much of an issue, though I can see many being put off by this.

[Densha]

Recent Tomytec models are fairly good. Detailing is not bad at all, but it sucks paying already 6000 yen for a 2-car train that still isn't par to at least MicroAce quality. Paying 11000 yen for a a 2-car MA train sucks too, but then you know that you at least have the best quality available right now. I don't see Kato or Tomix ever doing the KiHa 54 after all.

 

I don't mind those 500 yen Tomytec models, but Tomytec models in general are really not that cheap if you count in the electrical and detailing parts. I only tend to get Tomytec if there's no other option.

[JR 500系]

I agree... It isn't exactly cheap for a Tomytec model... minus the working lights and all. I almost only get Tomytec for models that cant be found anywhere else...

 

Tomytec also has a nice fleet of painted train liveries that really interest me (unfortunately) so... They have certainly also gone up in price, like the recently released 6-car Tobu 8000 series Urban Park Line set, causing around a whopping 9000 yen without a motor and trailer wheels...

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10389859

 

So I came upon an idea. since I cant run all my tomytec trains at 1 go, why not share the engine unit? This way, I can save on getting motor unit for every set that I get. Though there are many types of motors for various trains, some of them are similar and can be shared ~

[Densha]

Actually, I'm also sharing the motor units between my Tomytec trains, but as you already said that only goes as far as certain trains. My fleet of Keihan 600s and 700s have one shared power unit (I really need to buy another one). I also have some other 12m and 15m Tomytec trains now that can share power units, but I at least need a few of them to be able to run multiple trains at once. If I would get the Tomytec KiHa 54 I would only use the power unit with that specific train because I don't have other Tomytec trains of that length.

 

If possible, I just really want my heavy rail collection to be proper models. For interurbans I'm largely dependent on Tomytec because most interurbans simply only get released by Tomytec.

[cteno4]

The big thing with the tomytec is the variety of things we probably won't see anyone else do. I do like the fact I can buy a 2 car using for not much and if I decide I like it I slowly trick it out. Motor units many times I've gotten on sale waiting and watching. Granted they are not as cheap as they use to be but most of the time they are cheaper than similar RTR models and as densha mentioned wayyy cheaper than a ma when there is one the same.

 

Lights can be added easily if you are into fiddling. I have not pulled apart the gen2 mechs but the couple of gen 1s I did were easy to find places to slip in a lead w.o soldering then just current limiter and diode. But you have to be into doing that stuff like densha said and I am...

 

It would be nice to have the in floor motors but I expect that would boost the price with a total redesign of their mech like and be a bit more fiddly and maybe not as robust.

 

Weathering a bit always helps! I have a few tomytec bodies I got very cheap and plan to use them to try weathering techniques to knock off the plastic look but keep the usual fairly clean Japanese train look. Always great to have some to sacrifice.

 

Jeff

[kvp]

The biggest catch for sharing motors are the sideframes and underfloor equipment, since swapping them back and forth takes some time and the parts are press fit, so it's not good to keep moving them around. For the same type (like all Chichibu 101s) it's ok to share one motor.

 

My biggest problem with lights is the power supply in nonpowered cars as most of my sets have a 1:1 to 1:5 ratio of motor to trailer cars. A power coupler would solve this nicely and could spare the cost and work of adding trailer pickups.

 

On the other hand Tomytec shells and motors are great for modding as in case you screw up, it's easy and cheap to replace the broken part only.

 

I also like to combine them in a mix and match fashion or run coupled 2x2 or 2x3 car sets with one motor only. (many getaden sets i have share one powered unit and could run coupled only)

 

They are easy to DCC though as it's simple to add a wired decoder or a wired socket to the motor units. Adding lights is easy and some greenmax headlight panels are drop in compatible if you can solve the power supply problem in the trailers.

 

ps: My biggest problem with most rtr sets is their lack of R140 compatibility, like in case of the 11 and 12 series cars from Kato that struggle even on 150 mm curves, despite being short and otherwise ideal for small layouts with tight curves. Some Microace sets have a similar problems, but i can't say anything about their newer sets as i only have 10+ year old ones that couldn't be sourced from any other manufacturer.

[Suica]

MicroAce 04/2017 releases

[katoftw]

Must resist KiHa 47...

[JR 500系]

Must resist Kiha-48....

[ToniBabelony]

Must resist entering the realm of 3rd rail operations... Those Yokohama Blue Line trains are somehow attracting me, despite the line being quite boring...

[cteno4]

Resistance is futile... You will be assimilated... Surrender your credit card and prepare to have you bank account boarded...

 

Jeff

[JR 500系]

Resistance is futile... You will be assimilated... Surrender your credit card and prepare to have you bank account boarded...

 

Jeff

 

17,600 yen for a 3 car set... i'm afraid the resistance will win this round...  that amount of cash could get us a nice 6-car and above set... Plus it's not exactly a really nicely painted joyful train so....

 

 

*edit.

 

Hang on. I slapped myself here...

 

 

The resistance might win after all after seeing this.... That picture on the poster NEEDS to be changed... The selling points of this train is not shown clearly... I thought it was just another Kiha-48 resort train remake with a few wordings in the front, but It seems it is more than just that!

 

HANG ON AGAIN...

 

I stared HARD at the picture on the poster AGAIN. I cant make it out if the one in the video is the same as the one MA is releasing... The one MA is releasing, is the one on its poster. It doesn't seem to have the vibrant painting and wordings like the one in the video! Or are there 2 variants to the 'Kira Kira Michinoku'?

Edited November 23, 2016 by JR 500系

[ToniBabelony]

I think this is the first time I've seen this. Seibu and Sogō (a full subsidiary from Seven & I Holdings) is teaming up with MicroAce in a crowdfunding project to produce a 4-car 501 Series for ¥27,000: https://greenfunding.jp/sogo-seibu/projects/1679

 

They need to achieve a 800 set goal for the project to succeed, which kind of gives an insight in how much a project like this will cost in total (¥21.600.000) for a full production model. It's a steep price for a 4-car model, but it will almost guarantee a model produced just for you and you only. With that in mind, the comparatively high price is quite good. Even if this project doesn't reach its goal, it could be a way forward for companies like MicroAce who like to cater to a very niche market. Then again, it can also be off-putting for impulse-oriented buyers who like to see the model first before purchasing it. I'm not interested at all in this particular model, but I'm interested in how this experiment will turn out!

 

Unfortunately, the project was a failure and only reached 16% of its goal: http://www.jp-ngauge.info/ngi/2016/12/micro-ace501mic-75b2.html It was a very nishe train anyway, so it's not a big surprise. However, it's not a failed experiment, as it can work out in many different ways with different trains. It's a way to avoid potential losses. Even if a crowdfunding project fails, a high closing percentage might even justify a corporate investment anyway, rather than crowdfunding to at least break even on a project. Let's see if MicroAce (or any other company) is willing to experiment further with crowdfunding.

[Guest keio6000]

First, let's just get this out of the way: Japanese companies (of the sort that hobby companies tend to be) tend to be ludicrously conservative, which often leads them to underproducing and not taking even the most sensible of risks.  So, the following needs to be taken despite that being pretty much a given.  

 

Crowdsourcing like this has some huge potential upsides but also some negatives.   Probably the most sense is a hybrid model, where those who are willing to pony up cash sight unseen do so with the promise of some discount off RRP - let's say 10-25% depending on how early they order.  The manufacturer should propose a schedule like this:

 

Run:  1000

Must be bought and paid for in advance by crowdsourcing for this to go ahead:   600 (for example)

Number to be released to the general market via normal retail channels:  1000 - 600 = 400

price for first 100 crowdsourcers who pay in full:  JPY 24000

price for crowdsourcers 100-500 JPY 25000

price for crowdsourcers  500-600 JPY 27000

retail price:  JPY 30000

company reserves the right to start manfacturing and terminate crowdsource orders as soon as #500 is sold.

company reserves the right to not manufacture at all if #600 is not sold

 

toni says that this crowdsource only got 16% subscribed.  but, im guessing the flawed plan here was that they wanted 100% of the customers to come from crowdsourcing.  the flaw in that logic of course is that there are potential customers who might not have heard of the crowdsourcing but who would have heard of it from ther channels  

 

now, is the potential customerbase who actually heard of this crowdsourcing effort 16%?  more than that?  less than that?  in my example i used a very conservative 60%.  in my gut i suspect that 25% is sufficient for the average project, but there are a lot of assumptions in that number.

 

what we as collectors definitely dont want is companies turning to crowdsourcing instead of just manufacturing otherwise 'normally profitable' models. that's a lose-lose for all involved including the intangible loss of providing no fodder for the next generation to shop-drool over.

 

probably this model would be good for the USA as well.  it's gotta be better than the current system of using shapeways.

[JR 500系]

No pictures up yet, but:

 

・Toei Transportation Type 6300 3rd Edition (6-Car Set) Micro Ace

 

・Toei Transportation Type 6300 2nd Edition Long Skirt Replacemen... Micro Ace

 

・Keio Series 3000 Lightgreen With Stripe (5-Car Set) Micro Ace

 

・Keio Series 3000 Salmon Pink (5-Car Set) Micro Ace

 

・KIHA47 + Misumi Line Torocco Train (5-Car Set) Micro Ace

[Guest keio6000]

The MA inokashira trains have largely gone unloved and have been cheap enough that I've bought all of them mostly on the secondary market for as low as 6000 each.

 

However, the one exception to this has been the 'Beige' coloured one. I have it, but it's different from the rest.

 

Most of the releases were like this:

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tdAuexxKBo0/VSD30JfYpcI/AAAAAAAAH7A/5t4KDfUwHrs/s1600/3719Keio640rJPG.jpg

 

which is the keio museum example with the 'wraps to the side' front windows.

 

however, the beige one was like this:

 

http://www.uraken.net/rail/chiho/keio/keio3000c.jpg

 

with the older school small windows. curious if the new releases will have the small windows. have to check my references for which strips colours go with what. more small widow releases would be great, triply so if they release some with the old single-doors.

 

as you might know, tomytec recently released an outstanding (imho) set of trains of these keio 3000s in post keio service. this includes the alpico tetusou version

 

http://img.amiami.jp/images/product/review/153/RAIL-19034_03.jpg

 

and for example the Hokuriku railway asaden version which for whatever reason just looks absolutely perfect to me as one of the most beautiful trains and lines in japan

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Hokutetsu_asaden.jpg

 

anyway, the problem is that because all the post-keio units run as 2-car sets, there's no good way to transfer both the lights and the motor unit from a cheap microace "junk" pickup to motorize/lightize the tetsudou coll sets. a real pity.

Edited December 25, 2016 by cteno4

[velotrain]

however, the beige one was like this:

 

http://www.uraken.net/rail/chiho/keio/keio3000c.jpg

 

 

 

Excuse me Keio - and perhaps it's just my aging vision, but I'm seeing blue and not beige. 

 

However, perhaps that's why you have beige in quotes the first time you mention it?

[ToniBabelony]

About two weeks ago, I did all the Keio lines with a day pass in an afternoon and I must say I enjoyed the Inokashira line the most. I think the problem with the MicroAce products is that they never released all seven colours of any series (3000, renewal 3000 and 1000). This makes it that there is no collectors value to them very much. I bet if Greenmax or Tomytec would have ventured out in the Inokashira realm, all colour variations would already be available or in the planning.

 

The new poster from MircoAce says they will be released with the unfurbished front windows, no front skirts and two variations of AC! : http://www.microace-arii.co.jp/poster/img/16_12w.jpg I now realise the Keio Inokashira 3000 Series also had at least thee different kinds of AC units of the roof...

[JR 500系]

New MA releases:

 

http://microace-arii.co.jp/poster/img/17_01w.jpg

 

That Ryomo is nice, but HUGE OUCH on the price....

[Guest keio6000]

MicroAce headquarters:   Kato recently released a Fukutoshin line 10000 set that was spectacular, higher quality than we could ever do, and is still widely available on the aftermarket.   I know let's release our own version at twice the price!

 

seriously, what could possibly be the logic here?  

[kvp]

The pipeline for Lego sets is usually 3 years from start to finish, with 2 years from the commitement to produce to shipping. I would assume Microace has a similar production timeframe, so if Kato managed to keep quiet about its variant until production was fixed for the MA variant, then they could only cancel it at a cost. The later they are in the production, the higher the loss. After a certain point even minimal sales would decrease the loss more than cancelling it. So far from the 4 larger japanese compaies, imho only Tomix has rapid prototyping based production capabilities and due to the lower quality of the process it's only used for some Tomytec models. Everything else must go through the long route, regardless of the competition. A series of these business miscalculations could seriously impact the financial state of a company.

[Suica]

While a price increase is noticeable with all the manufacturers, MicroAce really takes the cake. It wasn't that long ago when a 6 or 7 car MA set cost around 17k ¥. And now look, 27-30k ¥ seems to be normal. I would really like to hear their stand on this.

[Guest keio6000]

The pipeline for Lego sets is usually 3 years from start to finish, with 2 years from the commitement to produce to shipping. I would assume Microace has a similar production timeframe, so if Kato managed to keep quiet about its variant until production was fixed for the MA variant, then they could only cancel it at a cost. The later they are in the production, the higher the loss. After a certain point even minimal sales would decrease the loss more than cancelling it. So far from the 4 larger japanese compaies, imho only Tomix has rapid prototyping based production capabilities and due to the lower quality of the process it's only used for some Tomytec models. Everything else must go through the long route, regardless of the competition. A series of these business miscalculations could seriously impact the financial state of a company.

 

a 2 second google search shows that the kato version was released i 2011/2012.