What did you order or the post deliver? (Japanese N Gauge)

[Martijn Meerts]

I love that Lima noise though, I used to have a lot of Lima stuff before I started doing N-scale. I actually still have a Lima 1200 series, but I doubt it still runs, and several detail parts are missing as well. I did have the Hondekop as well, the 4-part set, with matching couplers =)

[Densha]

Mine is probably from two different batches, as there's also a colour difference. I also have the 1200 but as with yours almost every detail is missing. I found a pair of pantographs somewhere in a drawer that I put on and replaced the plastic wheels of the Plan E coaches with metal ones so it's a bit better. The coaches look actually quite good from a distance.

[cteno4]

box from modeltrainplus showed up sat. had the nice tokyo station stamp sheets and a pile of 100yen eco containers! Both are quite nice! its going to be a nice change to sprinkle in some of the green containers into the container yard.

 

jeff

[Keikyu]

[Martijn Meerts]

So, my Kato power pack (22-014) arrived, and I noticed that trains only start moving after setting the power to round about halfway. Is that supposed to be like that, or am I once again lucky and got a crappy power pack? :)

[kvp]

You should mesure the voltage output, but generally no, the trains should start moving at much lower.voltages. It's either a problem with the pack, your voltage converter, your cables or trains. With a multimeter you could check the first 3.

[katoftw]

all mine kick in at about 9 o'clock region.

 

is it the only kato controller you got?

[Martijn Meerts]

You should mesure the voltage output, but generally no, the trains should start moving at much lower.voltages. It's either a problem with the pack, your voltage converter, your cables or trains. With a multimeter you could check the first 3.

 

Pretty sure it's not the trains considering they run just fine on some of the other power packs I have, shouldn't be the cables either since they're all new, and I've tried with multiple wires as well (I'm using Unijoiners with wires attached). Can't be the converted since I don't use one ;)

 

 

all mine kick in at about 9 o'clock region.

 

is it the only kato controller you got?

 

It differs a bit per locomotive.. I've only tried 3 so far, a Kato, a Tomix and a MicroAce. The MicroAce (KiHa40) was the worst, starting at around the 1 o'clock region. It started with a jerk, so I'm fairly certain that train just needs a high voltage to get going. The Kato started at around 12 o'clock-ish, but again I believe it's partially due to the locomotive as it's an older C11. The Tomix (EF66) started at around 10-11 o'clock-ish, and started at a nice and slow pace.

 

It's the only Kato controller I have for now, so I can't really compare to another one.

[katoftw]

all mine kick in with only a few millimeters varience of 9 o'clock.  you are talking about 10-15mm rotation on yours.  something wrong there.  i have 2 controllers, both operate the same.

 

all your tested train run fine on another non kato controller?

Edited January 13, 2014 by katoftw

[Martijn Meerts]

Pretty much yes. The MicroAce still needs a little more juice than the other 2, only starts at around 3 volt or something around there.

 

I don't mind it that much really, the Kato power pack is only for the T-Trak stuff I'm working on. My main layout will be completely DCC (and eventually all/most trains will be as well).

[Densha]

The point is, do your trains behave the same as with other power packs? Do they accelerate nice and slowly and is the maximum speed normal or way too low?

Edited January 13, 2014 by Densha

[Martijn Meerts]

I can't test max speed at the moment since I don't have a layout to run them on. Just a couple of straight sections. I'll see if I can put down a temporary loop this weekend and do some more testing. I normall use a Z-scale Marklin power pack for analog stuff, and that one only goes to 9 volt, so it's hard to compare really. They do behave pretty much the same though, just that with the Kato power pack, I have to set power close to the 9 o'clock position, which should be 50% power, so 6 volt.

 

I did measure the voltage output though. At the 9 o'clock position it's only about 1.5 volt, at 12 o'clock it's around 4.5 volt, and max is just shy of 11 volt.

[kvp]

So the output is clearly wrong. You should mesure the ac output voltage of the kato transformer. If it isn't as much as it should be, then that's the faulty part. If that's ok, then the controller has some problems. It can be something simple like a bad solder joint or diode (half wave rectification cuts the power into half) or a bad pot or wrong resistor.

 

Personally i wouldn't run any trains with a not properly operating controller, since we don't reallly know when and how it could fail and that could damage the trains.

 

ps: If you have a DCC system, then it might be possible, that the feeders have a voltage lowering diode chain somewhere to lower the DCC output to something tolerable by the 12V N scale motors. This would cause a constant voltage drop in analog mode.

[Martijn Meerts]

The feeders are new, taken out of the package minutes before installing them, and they're official Kato ones. The T-Trak stuff is completely separate from the larger layout I'm building, so there's no mixing of DCC and analog.

 

I'll check the transformer itself later. It's a European one, and looks like a fairly cheap version.

 

 

On a side note, I've never actually had a power pack that had the output it specified it had. Most 12 volt power packs output closer to 13, sometimes even 14 volt. And I'm talking about 30 years worth of different power packs from different brands, both cheap and expensive :)

[Kabutoni]

Today I went on a short cycling run to Machida and found a perfect motor unit for my Shibayama Railway 3050 type project! A Greenmax KD47 unit (18M) for Toei 5000 type trains for half the price, so I headed for TamTam in Kobuchi and bought some matching bogies, a set of pantographs (Kato PS16A type) a set of fine file tools and a cheap Greenmax bookcase (ex-Mani 44 type box (cat.no. 4212)) to store my project in. Apart from the paint and painting tools, the project is bound for finishing! :D

[Martijn Meerts]

Just got confirmation that Keitaro has managed to get me one of these beauties: http://world-kougei.com/SHOP/7044091.html :)

[kvp]

On a side note, I've never actually had a power pack that had the output it specified it had. Most 12 volt power packs output closer to 13, sometimes even 14 volt. And I'm talking about 30 years worth of different power packs from different brands, both cheap and expensive

 

Under load most of them output correct voltages. Of course with older packs, it doesn't help that the continental 220V standard was changed to 240V and sometimes the network output drops way down to 200V so the input is +/-20V. On the other hand, a modern active pfc mosfet buck converter can be very precise, down to +/-0.1V. This is the technology what most usb chargers use and nowdays most 12V stabilised output wall adapters have the same electronics. They provide a very stable, very smooth DC output with a little bit of high frequency /Mhz range/ switching noise (about 0.1V) and most have an internal thermal current limiter. (so on and overload or short, you get a little bit less voltage and a lot less current)

 

 

the project is bound for finishing!

Keep us updated! I would like to see the 4 cars painted and in a consist. Do you plan to motorise both motor units or just one?

[Densha]

I'll check the transformer itself later. It's a European one, and looks like a fairly cheap version.

Then I think we found the perpetrator. I use a 230V-->110V converter (has also a built in EU-->US plug converter) and it works perfectly. I've looked at several adaptors I had laying around before ordering it but their output was always way too low.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Densha

[Martijn Meerts]

Thing is, the transformer was included with the power pack ;)

[Densha]

So you ordered it from a European shop? I'll take a look at my transformer when I have time.

[Martijn Meerts]

yep, ordered it from katonl.com .. No point ordering it from Japan when it's easily available over here and a decent price =)

[kvp]

Is it a kato standard adapter or a shop retrofit one? Sometimes shops give a free replacement adapter, but they are not always the best quality. You should check the output if it's AC or DC and then mesure the output voltage in the right mode. It it's not 15V AC then you might just found the problem.

 

The shops writes:

KATO 22-014 - UNITRACK - Power Pack + snelheidsregelaar - KATO rijregelaar met voeding Type: 24W/12VAC - Primair: 230V - 50Hz - 31W Secundair: 2000mA 24VA - 12V

12V AC, that's 75% of the capacity. The diode bridge takes 0.7x2=1.4V, so theoretically you can get a maximum of 10.6V DC out of the pack.

[Martijn Meerts]

10.6 sounds about right compared to what I measured, so I guess that identifies the problem. At least it doesn't seem to be the power pack itself.

 

I do think they shop replaced it themselves, either that or Noch did it considering they are the Kato importers for Europe, and the Power Pack package did have the Noch sticker on it.

[Densha]

Exactly what I was thinking about... I think Noch does replace it because I've heard of people buying Kato throttles in the EU with European transformers before. I haven't heard of this voltage problem thing before though.

Maybe ask Katonl? I'm sure they will help as far as they can.

[Kabutoni]

Keep us updated! I would like to see the 4 cars painted and in a consist. Do you plan to motorise both motor units or just one?

 

You're the ones getting the updates first! :D I only have one car motorised though. Doing all four of them would be too much (yes, all cars were in fact motorised!).