Future prospects for Kato 1:150 Swiss metre-gauge?

[HantuBlauLOL]

Wait a minute. Is the "meter" gauge here 1000mm? Afaik it is, and cape gauge is 1067mm.

[Densha]

The Rhätische Bahn has a 1000 mm gauge yes.

[westfalen]

Wait a minute. Is the "meter" gauge here 1000mm? Afaik it is, and cape gauge is 1067mm.

In 1/150 scale that is a difference of .44 mm, I doubt anyone would notice unless they had microscopic vision.  It is hard to tell them apart in full size.  And on the scale differences I also mix U.S., Japanese and British buildings if they look like right, the difference is so small you don't notice there is a difference.

 

I think there is a good point about the price indicating they were made for the Japanese market, if they were intended for Europe they would cost three times as much.

[HantuBlauLOL]

I think there is a good point about the price indicating they were made for the Japanese market, if they were intended for Europe they would cost three times as much.

That's why I haven't bought any euro models yet, maybe never. Just not worth it.

 

With 20k yen you can buy a Japanese full train set while Euro only gives you a locomotive.

Edited April 13, 2015 by HantuBlauLOL

[velotrain]

The RhB is the main train company for G scale trains, so most of their past and current rolling stock has been issued in G scale and have a rather large market share amongst garden train fans.

 

I'm curious what you base this statement on? 

 

I don't think it's true, even if by "G scale trains" you actually mean LGB.

 

As you know, the term "G scale" has long since become an undefined mess, and generally / loosely applied to anything that runs on 45mm gauge track - with the possible exception of 7/8n2.

 

My understanding is that the LGB models were initially based on German and Austrian prototypes.

 

Are you saying that LGB gets a majority of their production volume and/or profits from RhB prototypes?

[velotrain]

I think there is a good point about the price indicating they were made for the Japanese market, if they were intended for Europe they would cost three times as much.

 

Perhaps they do by the time they get there ;-)

[kvp]

G scale is meter gauge on gauge 1 track. And yes, the highest volume of G scale sales in RhB stock. 1 scale is different but that's a standard gauge scale. It's like Nj/Nuk and N.

[velotrain]

G scale is meter gauge on gauge 1 track. And yes, the highest volume of G scale sales in RhB stock. 1 scale is different but that's a standard gauge scale. It's like Nj/Nuk and N.

 

I'm still curious what your source of data is for the RhB statement - is there one?

 

 

 

Regarding G scale, this is from the Wiki article:

 

"Model trains are built to represent either a real train of standard or narrow gauge. In an HO model, for example, HO track is used to represent real standard gauge and some narrower-gauge track such as N is used to represent real narrow gauge.

 

G model-railways depart from this and always use the same gauge. Trains are instead built in different sizes depending on whether they are intended to represent standard-gauge or narrow-gauge trains. Because of this it might be more correct to speak of "G Gauge," the consistent aspect being the gauge, 45 mm (1.772 in), and not the scale.

 

G scale is thus the use of 45 mm (1.772 in) gauge track to represent both real standard gauge trains and real narrow-gauge trains, originally those of the European 1000mm gauge, at 1:22.5. Other narrow-gauge trains are modelled at other scales.

 

The origins of the gauge was called '1 Gauge' or 'Gauge One' which was first used in Europe and England being 1.75 in (44.45 mm). Used to model standard gauge trains in the scale of 1:32. LGB were first to adopt the term 'G Scale' and used the gauge of 45mm to model 1,000mm gauge European trains in 1:22.5 scale. Many modelers are of the notion that the term 'Large Scale' is best to describe the various scales of models that usually run on 45 mm (1.772 in) track."

[Welshbloke]

G scale is a real can of worms thanks to assorted fiddles.

 

The correct scale for "standard gauge" on 45mm track is 1:32 or Gauge 1, as made by Marklin and a few others.

 

LGB started with 1:22.5 to represent 760mm gauge prototypes on 45mm gauge track (like Stainz, the U Class, the little Austrian/German four wheel coaches, etc). Later on they started offering Swiss metre gauge prototypes which would also run on 45mm, in order to do this they fiddled the scale. The models don't look out of place side by side but the narrower gauge prototypes are much smaller than the metre gauge ones, so the metre gauge are made to a smaller scale.

 

Into this mix wandered the late lamented Aristocraft, who decided to model American prototypes at 1:29 scale on 45mm track. They picked 1:29 so the models wouldn't look undersized next to LGB, even though they should have used 1:32. In more recent years LGB and Piko have both started offering European standard gauge models to a similar scale. Confused yet?

 

I would hope that Kato will look at future Nm releases with an eye to getting the most from the tooling. The BerninaBahn railcars and four-wheel coaches (as operated in yellow as a historic train) would be an excellent choice as they're popular, long-lived units which can carry several liveries, the same goes for the coaches. Also worth considering what appear to be standard design Swiss metre gauge coaches - these could be offered in multiple liveries and for multiple lines. The Alpine Classic Pullman would probably be another popular one, although there's only really one livery and train formation for it.

 

Interesting thing they need to notice: Bogie coaches made for the Bernina line are shorter due to the limited clearances. They can run anywhere else on the RhB but not always vice-versa, AFAIK the Glacier Express stock is banned as it's too long. There are Bernina Express coaches which look vaguely similar, but are shorter.

[SantaFe1970]

Here's the Hobby Search listing for the RhB Allegra set:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10311201

 

Interesting to note that the packaging is in Japanese, German and English, too. Note also that the front of the package includes a Noch article number -- I presume an indication that this set will be marketed by Noch in Europe.

 

The HS price is 13,320 yen. I wonder what the Euro price in Germany, Switzerland, etc. will be?

[Melandir]

Here's the Hobby Search listing for the RhB Allegra set:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10311201

 

Interesting to note that the packaging is in Japanese, German and English, too. Note also that the front of the package includes a Noch article number -- I presume an indication that this set will be marketed by Noch in Europe.

 

The HS price is 13,320 yen. I wonder what the Euro price in Germany, Switzerland, etc. will be?

 

double it more or less

 

Kato Orient Express set (full 15 coach) was marketed in Europe at the list price of 450 eur by Lemke

[kvp]

 

double it more or less

That's normal. Shipping and the 40% import tax and VAT on top can bring it up to 150% to get it to the shop shelf, so if it's 200%, then they are selling with a 33% margin. But this is also true for european trains that can be bought directly from the maker. Some sellers use a 1000% (10x) price tag, but they are gathering for the wealthy and uninformed collectors who can't even use the internet.

[railsquid]

Saw these for about 11,200 ~ 11,500 yen in various places in Akihabara last night, though wasn't really paying attention.

[SantaFe1970]

Is this the first time a Kato set has appeared with a Noch stocking code? I'm thinking this Noch code suggests a more direct -- and less expensive? -- distribution to Europe. 

[kvp]

Does anyone know the minimal radius of the new allergra set? (i'm especially interested if it can be run on Tomix R140)

[IST]

Does anyone know the minimal radius of the new allergra set? (i'm especially interested if it can be run on Tomix R140)

 

We will try it out soon as one of our club members (crash_) ordered one and it has been already shipped (with SAL).

[kvp]

So two more months? I was asking because if it can run on R140, then i might get one too...

[IST]

This link says it was made to run on R150 (as Kato do not have R140):

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/blogs/news/17327220-kato-sales-meeting-feb-17-2015

So there is a chance...

[Densha]

A page about converting the Glacier Express to Nm gauge; 6.5mm gauge: http://www.rhb-nm.ch/tips-tricks/kato-glacier-express/umspuren/

[kvp]

It turns out some of my favourite RhB emu-s and locomotives are available in N scale for Nm rails (6.5 mm). The prices however...

[toc36]

I received my Kato ABe8/12 "Allegra" in the mail this weekend. Loving it.

 

It negotiates the Kato 150mm/6" at slow to moderate speed. It will NOT negotiate the Kato (20176) 114mm/4 5/8" curve.

 

It appears that it will run on Tomix R140 Wide Tram. I have a few pieces (un-electrified). Coupled cars will negotiate the turn radius.

 

I recently purchased the Tomix Hakone Tozan Railway Type 3000 "Alegra". Beautiful unit. This will make the 114mm/4 5/8" curve.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited June 14, 2015 by toc36

[Mr Frosty]

For those wanting a "quick and easy" RHB layout for running Allegras and Glacier Expresses on, Noch do a preformed layout board called Bergun. It is an extended figure 8 track plan. Just add track and buildings.

 

http://www.noch.com/en/product-categories/model-railways/preformed-layouts/preformed-layout-bergun-83860.html

 

 

Edited September 13, 2015 by Mr Frosty

[kvp]

Seems to be using unitrack R150 curves with an option to use two R150 turnouts for creating a double track station. This pretty much covers the currently available RhB rolling stock. Bergun is a station on the Albula line (between Chur and St. Moritz), where the old freight depot building houses the RhB museum with one of the remaining RhB crocodiles. (which would be a great model too)

 

ps: I would like to know if the allegras can run through Tomix R140 turnouts with coupled cars (making an S curve with the added curved piece). My current favourite RhB line is the Arosa line, which has a street running double track section after departing from the bus terminal next to the station in Chur, then after the old city gate it quickly becomes a mountain railway with viaducts and tunnels before reaching Arosa, where you can continue up on the mountain with a cable car, also run by RhB. This line uses allegras pulling old loco hauled passenger coaches, panorama cars built from 2 axle open cars and regulary carries heavy freight at the back of the trains, shunted around with small orange locomotives.

[Mr Frosty]

Adding the double track station will improve operating potential :)

[Welshbloke]

I can't help thinking that a pack of a pair of the four-wheel panoramic coaches along with individual models of the EW I, II or III coaches would be a good seller. Also consider the standard RhB four-wheel goods van, which has appeared in several promotional liveries as well as plain brown.

 

Unfortunately my thoughts of getting into Kato's RhB range came to a shuddering halt when the mint, boxed Glacier Express pack I had my eye on sold about two days before I could buy it! Can't really justify the full price, and I just know that trying to import one would see a hefty payment demand from Her Majesty's Highwaymen.