Gerry's Japanese Layout

[gerryo]

Hi JR500.

 

I'm using Tomix Tram, and movimg Bus tracks.  I already have so much Kato Unitrack that it's seems to be coming out my ears.  So will use Kato Viaduct track for the double line and Kato single track for the commuter line.

 

I have to use up some of what I have spent.

 

gerryo

Edited December 14, 2015 by gerryo

[gerryo]

So, where could a small yard go on here and have access to the ground level station tracks?

 

gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

So is the station elevated for the double track outside loop and the inner loop just inside that a commuter at ground level?

 

If so you could run a siding off the commuter under the station to a few yard sidings in the back. Do you need storage for the double line?

 

If they all are at ground level then you would need some crossover points to move from the inner track across your double track to get to the yard area.

 

One problem is putting a yard that far in the back of the layout. Is the back up against a wall or can you get access to it from the other side? Reaching over anything past 24" starts to be a big issue and yards do tend to have some derailments going thru point ladders and the associated S curves at times.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

Hi Jeff.

 

The double track at the station is at ground level.  This end is the front of the layout.  The other three sides are against walls.  There is about 40 inches of open space outside the layout, on this end, and will be used for access by me.

 

The station building that I will be using is the Kato Overhead Station 23-122 and Extension 23-123, along with 2 sets of V15. 

 

gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

Sorry, so you have access to the proposed yard area from the extreme right of your diagram?

 

Ok if all the tracks are at ground level you will need some crossover points or double crossovers to move from that inner commuter loop to the double loop and the double loop outside line into the hard ladder.

 

On the shape of the yard ladder it will depend on how many trains you want to store and how long the trains are. If you want the max, if you have room you could start the yard before the curve on the outmost loop at the top or bottom to sweep up thru a 90 to start a yard point ladder going along your yard vertically.

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

I have done some more measuring of my train room and find that I can possibly get some more space at the top side.

I can move the whole layout 3.5 inches to the wall at the bottom side.  At the top side I have almost 9 inches of space.  So with these two spaces I gain almost 12 inches, which will give room for 4 yard tracks.  By extending the front side by the same 12 inches, I can plan a yard ladder to all four yard tracks.  This will add plenty of length for anything I will put in there, including my shinkansens.

 

All turnouts will have to be #6's to accommodate the long cars.  I have used 12.5 inch radius curves in the yard.  This should be good at yard speed.

 

I will also have to wait for my grandson to visit as he is the only person I know who is strong enough to move that layout.

 

gerryo

Edited December 15, 2015 by gerryo

[cteno4]

gerry,

 

why not just add on the left as you were first intending and then put the yard there from a point off the top right of outer loop just before the curve that you then come around the corner 90 degrees and then have a straight yard along the right side. the corner addition and curved yard seems like a pain to add. nice straight yard will also let you put an engine shop at the end perhaps.

 

if having the yard and layout width is too much for your entry point into the middle pit you could rotate the whole layout 180, but if you dont have any access on the left back side that would be a problem. 

 

where are the doors again? what are the module base depths?

 

jeff

[gerryo]

Hi Jeff, and thanx for your comments, but I'm not quite sure I understand.  Do you mean that I should go back to my previous drawing with the yard along the right end?  This would mean that my access to the Pit would be under a 3 foot wide module.  I know, that is what I first suggested, but you know what happens to my suggestions.

 

All my modules are 2 feet wide.

 

The other thing is taking the entrance to the yard off the outer double loop on the upper right corner.  I would have to put a turnout on the straight, just before the turn.  I do not have room there to install a turnout, and then run a line from there into the yard as it would be off the edge of the module.

 

The entrance to the room is at its right end, as is a full width closet.

 

gerryo

Edited December 16, 2015 by gerryo

[cteno4]

ok gotcha that is deep for the entrance duck!

 

there is not a doorway at the other end?

 

the corner is a bit awkward and behind everything if you need to fiddle with the yard at all, you only really have good access to the ladder from the doorway. 

 

could push the modules all the way out to the walls with 12" extensions on both sides and top and bottom. then have a yard along the top or bottom at the front of the layout. you could some points to do cross overs from the outer double to the inner loop where the yard ladder would come off. while this chews up some of your scenery area the extra 1' extensions give you more in other places and also give you a longer run on all your lines by 4'.

 

jeff

 

jeff

[gerryo]

Hi Jeff.

 

I have completed a drawing showing the whole room and what I am trying to deal with.

 

In this drawing I have kept all the tracks except the commuter track the same.  However, to do the commuter track like this I will have to use the double viaduct station, and run a connection from the comm. track to the yard.

 

This makes it easier to have a small yard long enough to hold the comm. trains that I have.

This also means that I could have the viaduct even higher where it crosses the bridge.  This would mean using a 2% gradient only. 

 

gerryo

Edited December 20, 2015 by gerryo

[gerryo]

Apparently, all of my tracks, other than the double viaduct, will be adjusted to fit the diorama as needed.  I wish the Diotown set was a little slimmer and left some room for adjustment along that end.

 

My "OO" club is in the throes of purchasing a seat on rollers which can get us old fogies under our layout.  It has a height of 36 inches under the layout.  Obviously designed to accommodate kids, while at a show.  However, if a roller chair can be use here, then maybe I could use something like this for myself.

 

If this is possible, then I could make the station module a little wider to allow better access to the yard.  As it is, that turn into the yard is too sharp.  With a #6 turnout it would be much better.

 

Time for another drawing revision.

 

gerryo

Edited December 20, 2015 by gerryo

[gerryo]

With the station module widened to 30 inches instead of 24, there would be much better space for the yard approach.

 

In fact , there might even be enough space to double the commuter track all the way around, place a double crossover near the yard access, and allow traffic from either direction to enter the yard.

 

Or am I just complicating things?

 

gerryo

[cteno4]

Hugh, my post the other night went poof, guess it was server timeout.

 

Good to see all the room.

 

So how is the single inside loop connected to the yard going to cross the double outer line? Is the double now elevated and it's a viaduct station? Elevating the double track will help if you want to elevate the bridge, you have a long run there to do your grades.

 

Deepening the station may help with the approach a little. It would give the room for double track inner loop and a xover.

 

Have you tried any of the layout programs?

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

Hi Jeff.

 

The station is the Kato Viaduct Station and will have raised doubled viaduct all around, so will have greater height at the bridge.

 

With the station module widened to 30 inches gives plenty of room for the Commuter line to be doubled with better access to the yard for both tracks.  This also leaves lots of room for both the Tomix double Tram Tracks and the Single track Moving Bus System.  I guess I will have a couple of pedestrian flyovers to accommodate people.

 

The small yard is 48 inches long which should allow use for my commuter trains.  My longest commuter is 35.5 inches which is actually longer than either of my E6 or E7 Shinkansens.

 

Now let's see if the final drawing loads without any problems.

 

gerryo

 

 

 

 

[cteno4]

Looks like the extra room will help.

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

Can anyone tell me what the maximum gradient is that can be used for a 6 coach E6 or E7?

 

gerryo

Edited December 22, 2015 by gerryo

[katoftw]

Probably 4%.  If using Kato, it is in the instruction booklet, along with the minimum curve radius.  If Tomix, not sure, but think the same.

[gerryo]

Thanx katotfw.  I never got an instruction book with any of my trains.  Not that it would do much good, in that I don't read Japanese anyway.

 

So if I used 3% would give me an inch higher than I had planned.

 

Thanx again

gerryo

[kvp]

Just make sure the transient is smooth and gradual both on the bottom and top as some shinkansen have very low bottom plates.

[cteno4]

3% will work, you will get a noticeable slowdown on the grade though w,o altering the throttle. 4% can be rough on shinkansens unless very short trains. Kvp makes a good point,mthe shinkansens don't like the transitions from flat to grade much. If you can do an easement if the grade at the top and bottom by decreasing the grade slowly over a couple feet. His helps you from getting most of the change happening at the track joint at the top and bottom of the grade.

 

Can you do the grade all along the sides? You have a long run there you could get higher if you want.

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

Yes, I can do the grade all along the side, both up and down.

 

The grade change was my reason for using 2%.  Maybe I could use a 2% change twice.  But that would mean 4% on the top half.

 

What is the grade using the graduated piers in the Kato set?

 

gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerryo,

 

I would keep the grade constant if you can except on your transitions when its best to ease them gentler if you can. 

 

the kato double track set does the 2" rise in 6 track sections or about 60" so its about 3.3 percent grade. shorter trains (ie 4-8 cars) with one motor car make this ok but will slow noticably if you dont up the throttle. going more just starts to give problems.

 

to do a custom grade you would need to cut your own piers. you can take the standard concrete beam supports and just shave them off as you want. for the concrete Y piers you can roll your own.

 

jeff

[gerryo]

The castle that I have ordered will go in the lower left corner of the layout.  The shinkansen track might have to be adjusted out from the left wall to allow space for this item.  The track will be in a tunnel under the castle anyway, but this will again allow for more illusion.

 

I will have to make that corner, with the castle, removable in case of accidents.

 

gerryo

[kvp]

Ppersonally i think it's easier to make all tunnels liftable because it's easier to clean the tracks than though access holes. Also it allows 'solid' mountains with continous tunnels, which look better when viewed through the tunnel portals or with an on board camera.

[gerryo]

I've just been informed that my castle has been shipped.  And I thought it was on back order.

 

I guess I had better get busy.

 

gerryo