Gerry's Japanese Layout

[katoftw]

not really. a double line oval has an inside and outside line. the left is always the left. the right side of the train faces towards the centre of the double lines.

Edited January 26, 2015 by katoftw

[gerryo]

I got my first V51 a few minutes ago. Ordered 6 days ago from Hobby Search. That's the most fantastic delivery I have ever seen.

 

Great things can happen.

 

gerryo

[gerryo]

I got my second V51 a few minutes ago.  This one was ordered from an American supplier so that it would be here for Christmas.   Didn't quite work out that way.   

 

Anyway, it's here so I can do some planning.

 

gerryo

[gerryo]

I have lost the ability to post pictures because my old computer finally gave up and has trapped my picture program in it's hard drive. So I can't post a new pic to ask this question but can refer to an older pic in post #49.

 

In this plan I have included a tram track into the industrial area which is of course double track. Is it necessary to have double track, or can I use Unitrack to service this area? With Kato's new LRT Stop #23-141 I could provide 3 or 4 around the area.

 

gerryo

[kvp]

That's completly up to you. In Japan some tram lines have single track sections near their ends, connected to the double tracked part with a turnout somewhere between two stops. Of course only one tram can be in a single tracked section.

[katoftw]

 

In this plan I have included a tram track into the industrial area which is of course double track. Is it necessary to have double track, or can I use Unitrack to service this area? With Kato's new LRT Stop #23-141 I could provide 3 or 4 around the area.

 

gerryo

if by unitrack, you meant single track pieces. then yes you can use double or single track pieces. both are unitrack.

[gerryo]

My absence was surely noticed by everyone. JUST KIDDING.

 

Been busy with the layout. Got the Styrofoam surfaces glued on. Still lots of unevenness so will have a lot of sanding and filling to do.

 

I laid out the track for the ground level and found that I had to make quite a few changes. This will be seen when I get my photo program downloaded from the old hard disc. No idea when. I'm taking a few pictures as I go.

 

I still have a few odd pieces to get for the ground level track, and want to have them fitted before I complete any landscaping. I suppose that I should do the same for the viaduct track. The only thing I have for the viaduct is the station and extension.

 

So, back to work. It's no fun going outside these days. The temps have been wavering between -30C and -10C with wind chills down to -40C. So I'm staying inside and playing trains.

 

gerryo

[gerryo]

I received the Viaduct Station pieces, but they never sent the extra Viaduct Piers that I needed.  So I am no further ahead with the Station. 

 

I received the viaduct V13 and wouldn't you believe it, I am 1 - 248 mm viaduct double track short.

I think I should know by now that each side of an oval is equal in length.

 

But with what I did receive, and was able to set up, showed that some drastic changes have to be made to my plans.  In a couple of places a viaduct pier lands directly on top of the ground level main line.  It is quite possible that I will have to go back to a previous plan and " think it out again ". 

 

But not all is lost.  The viaduct runs over top of part of my local area station.  I had been thinking of doing " an up and over" but now have decided to do away with part of the station instead.  Less work but not as authentic I suppose, but I have to get on with it.

 

No pictures yet.  New hard drive has been set up but is still in Calgary.

 

gerryo

Edited March 18, 2015 by gerryo

[katoftw]

Did the retailer forget to send you the box of piers you ordered?

[gerryo]

No, the retailer did not forget.  They substituted the wrong part.

 

I ordered viaduct piers # 23-020 and they sent 47/8 inch Unitrack # 20-020.  On both my order confirmation and the packing slip that came in the box quoted the correct number and of course they charged me for the piers.

 

Now I'm having trouble contacting them.  Seems like the bigger the company is the harder it is to pin them down.

 

gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerryo,

 

You can always glue or double stick tape a piece of styrene across the joint of two viaduct pieces, then glue or double stick supports on either side of the track under the joint. It's Murphy's law of layouts one pier will fall on the track below!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

I finally got everything I needed to make sure all my ideas would work, and they do.  I had just been laying the track on the bare tabletop to see if things would work out.

 

And Jeff, Murphy's law struck twice and I have 2 viaduct piers sitting on top of the ground level double track.  I will use your ideas with the double sided tape to try to fix the problem.

 

So, yesterday afternoon I spent removing everything from the layout, and will now work at smoothing out the tabletop Styrofoam to try to make it look somewhat like a city would be.

 

Anybody got any ideas about a quick and simple way to redo the tabletop?  I have visions of spending 6 months sanding the Styrofoam, and finally scrapping the whole idea.

 

gerryo

[gerryo]

On removing the track from the layout, and looking forward to spending what seemed like the rest of my life sanding down the Styrofoam, to make a decent surface, I decided to strip all of it off and start over again.

 

This was a mistake as it got me thinking about how the track had fitted on the 3075mm layout.

 

Quite crowded, was my thinking, so decided on some more space. I remade 4 of the modules to be 600mm wide, with the module across the end to be 900mm by 1200mm. This will give me an overall length of 3300mm, which will help with the crowding I initially had near the ends.

 

So, I have all the styro off, and am ready to start all over again. Once again, pics will have to come later.

 

gerryo

[gerryo]

I have all of the modules re-completed, and attached together. I don't have the Styrofoam yet, so still have lots of work to do.

 

With the added length, I think I will have space for one more Viaduct Station platform, which will make the Shinkansens easier to place on the siding track.

 

The added length also makes it possible to use the 381mm radius Single Viaduct track curves up to the Viaduct Station, instead of the 348mm ones. Again, more breathing room.

 

gerryo

[gerryo]

Got the Styrofoam back on and started to smooth it out. Anyone got any easy ideas about a compound to use to smooth the seams?

 

My idea about lengthening the Viaduct Station was thrown out. My longest Shinkansen is only 34 inches long and my siding tracks are about 65 inches, so I don't think more length is needed.

 

All of my single track will have 15 inch curves so the Shinkansens can go just about everywhere.

 

gerryo

[gerryo]

Anyone with ideas?

 

I really need help with this.

 

gerryo

Edited April 18, 2015 by gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerryo,

 

Patience at times it takes a day or two for the right person to pop back on the forum to answer. Some folks only come in once a week or so.

 

I would suggest you start by looking at the common suspects for smoothing off the shaped foam. These are plaster and joint compound. Plaster is the old school and works well, but can be really messy and is very hard when dry and hard to manipulate then. There are a number of texturing techniques you can do with the drying plaster, but they take some practice. One is to use crinkled foil to texture the drying plaster. Lots of videos on YouTube on this.

 

If you just want the seams I would look at joint compound. It's easy to work with and used for the same thing of sealing up cracks. It's easily sanded to get excess off. The glue between the foam layers is usually harder than the foam so when shaping it you can end up with a ridge at the seam as well you need to fill up to.

 

Latex paint also works well to seal up the foam and smooth things over, but best use interior paint as many of the exterior paints will shrink some when they dry (sort of does a shrink wrap effect on the house) and it can pull on your foam and potentially cause some warping. Use an earth or rock color that will be your base scenery coat then.

 

Sculpimould also works well to make a final layer on top of foam. It's super easy to shape while working with it and has a nice surface texture to it. It's also a bit flexible so a bit more forgiving than plaster and joint compound to cracking I'd your scenery gets some stress on it later. Folks mix in cheap acrylic craft paint ot it to pre color it so if there is any ding in the surface it's not white. You can get it at most craft stores (use those stores half off coupons!), really nice stuff for all sorts of scenery needs and not as messy as plaster!

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=amaco+sculptamold&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=33856543195&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16909960816626971591&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_ybhwg67b9_b

 

Some make their realy exposed rock pieces separately out of plaster or sculptimould in latex moulds (either cast your own or buy premade ones) and then they glue them in place on top of the foam base and fill in the cracks between them with smaller bits.

 

Some use the plaster cloth technique over the foam base and don't bother smoothing the foam out too much and use the cloth to make the final surface shape. Again lots of YouTube on this.

 

This is also a really handy tool at this stage of scenery is these inexpensive siphon air brushes.

 

http://t.harborfreight.com/quick-change-airbrush-kit-93506.html

 

These are super simple and just use the air blowing over the paint container nipple to draw paint up and out. This is not a fine scale airbrush like a single or dual action one, but it's super easy to use and virtually no cleaning of the gun needed. You can just pop on a different color and start spraying right away, this lets you have a few different Browns, bleach, gray etc to start doing a nice mottled base color layer. These also work well with the cheap acrylic craft paints which don't work so well in nicer airbrushed. Jsut thin the paints with latex/acrylic spray thinner you can get at the hardware store (water, alcohol, windshield fluid also work, but take some playing with to get it right with your specific paints,mthe acrylic thinner is just dirt simple!)

 

With any of the above its good to take a bunch of your scrap bits of foam and try a number of different things as with scenery like this I've really found experimenting is super important as everyone is really different. What works well for one person is horrid for another! Also I'v found that little variances in how you do techniques and blending of them as well will lead your to what suits your needs, situation, skills, etc the best! It's worh the time to do this. When ever I see a new technique or variant I try to do a little test like this to see how it works or glean a new idea to vary something else. Then end up with these little samples to use later to think about what I might want to do someplace.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited April 17, 2015 by cteno4

[gerryo]

Hi Jeff.  I edited the post.

 

I will use the joint compound I think.  With a little bit of sanding, like on drywall, it should work out fairly well.  I will then use latex paint to cover the foam.  My layout will not have much in the way of green space, so will paint all concrete gray to start.

 

As for applying the paint, I will probably use a roller.  The total surface is flat so a good heavy coat will flow out and leave a "decent" surface.

 

Thanx for your help.

gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerryo,

 

Yeah that should do you. Do try a quick test and play some.

 

Yeah a small roller for stucco will give you a rougher paint texture if you want. Foam rollers from the dollar store also work well on uneven surfaces.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Bernard]

Gerryo - even though your layout isn't going to have much greenery, all the formboard will be covered at some point. If you are going to have a lot of roads, sidewalks, concrete areas, you are going to apply a certain type of texture to it......whether it's Woodlands Scenic Road surface, light plaster compound, plastic sheets painted gray, etc....there is a lot of experimentation on your part to see what you like best and what you like to work with.

Jeff gave you some great advice and references to do research on.....and it is a hobby that can take a lot of time, it's supposed to be fun! I started my layout in 2002 and I'm still working on it.

[gerryo]

Thanx Bernard.

 

Yes all of Jeff's ideas are good. I'll probably use the Stucco roller as he suggests. I have the seam compound on now and waiting for it to dry.

 

Using the extra time for the drying, I have spent time to some avail in figuring out how to get the Unitram track to attach in some way to the rest of the layout. I now have a solution and it was relatively simple. I wish my picture program was in this computer so I could show it off. I guess, "all in good time".

 

Thanx again to both of you.

gerryo

[tossedman]

I'm sitting here soaking up all the info you're getting Gerry. Never done any scenery on a layout but I sure learn a lot from what others are doing.

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

[gerryo]

Hi Todd.

 

Yes, that's what clubs and forums are all about. I get a little impatient at times, but then I'm 73 years old. I have to do things NOW.

 

Yeah, I know. Take it easy or you'll bust a gut.

 

Good to hear from you Todd.

 

gerryo

Edited April 18, 2015 by gerryo

[cteno4]

Yes please do share the results. Like I said scenery is something that is very variable on how you do it, skill, practice, eye, etc, so folks can do similar things and come out with very different results. Always surprised when I see something that looks like a new technique all together and find out it's a standard old technique with just a little tweak or change in material (usually out of necessity but that then opens the door to something new!)

 

Check out the dollar store for the cheap foam detail rollers there. Harbor freight also has them on sale a lot as well if you have one nearby. I find they give a bit of texture but are easy to work with and depending on the paint and how long you have let it sit drying some before cleaning you can just toss em or attempt to wash them out. I liked the small stucco roller as it left quite a bit of texture in the paint on the smooth buts of foam surface. Even if you are covering with ground foam it makes the surface not totally flat or smooth which even covered with foam looks flat an smooth! Some folks will mix in ground vermiculite (the mineral stuff they put in potting soil to suck up extra water) and even finely ground foam into their base paint to give a little more texture to it.

 

Check out your local craft store for the cheap acrylic craft paints. They go on sale for 3 for a dollar all the time. Having a wide selection of colors to grab and try out for scenery and buildings is great. Inexpensive art brushes in sets also go on sale at the craft stores all the time, you can get a dozen or two for less than 5 bucks with a range of sizes, bristles, and shapes to mess around with your scenery painting. For finer painting and detailing check out ebay for nail brushes, scad of small brushes for nail painting to be had cheap as well.

 

Powered tempra paint also works well with a method called zip texturing. You can get a few tubs of basic colors and then there are great mixes you can do for various scenery bits. You add the pigments to plaster and sprinkle it onto your wetted surface. You can get nice texturing effects that look like rock or dirt this was really quickly. Lots of articles and youtubes on it out there.

 

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh-2010-SepOct/zip_texturing_resurrected

 

Again this is the place in model railroading where it gets int doing a lot of experimenting and practicing a lot before jumping into doing any in the layout. It's probably one of the biggest fall down points on a layout. Folks jump into trying s standard technique right on the layout and usually on way too big a piece at a time and they have a large failure. Or they go along and do it for quite a bit and discover some gotcha most of the way in that's a big problem for them. This has stalled out many a modeler and layout! You will find accounts of it here on the forum! This is why it's so good to so a small test to make sure it suits your skill, eye, needs, etc. then either do a larger test or a small test on the layout to really practice the technique and learn its idiosyncrasies like how long till something sets up, does that change when you go bigger, etc. whole range of gotchas but the more you invest in experimenting and playing up front the better and faster the work on the finished product goes and the wiser you get in doing it and being able to dance around a gotcha when they do come up!

 

YouTube is also your friend here. So many folks have done great tutorials on just about every technique out there and their little tricks or modifications. It's a super rich source of info on demand for free! Before doing any new technique it's worth spending an hour watching some youtubes even if you think the technique sounds easy or if it sounds too hard. I always find some things which seem to be easy when written turn out to be hard to do physically but when you see someone do it you see what was lost in translation. Also some which sound way too hard turn out to be simple when you see it done or someone has that little trick to make it a lot easier. Also I've watched some and learned that ain't what I'm good at (painting backboards for me!) so decided not to put any effort there for now!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

Thanx for the ideas, Jeff.

 

Something that I have done before is to apply green paint - usually acrylic or latex or one of the many combinations - then while the paint is still very wet, sprinkle on the Woodland Scenics grass tone that you want.  Then, when the paint dries, the grass is securely stuck to the surface. 

 

I wonder if this could be done with a fairly large layout.  Since most of my layout will be covered by track, or by Unitram, this might be a useful idea.  There would then be some small areas of grass left uncovered which could be hard to complete when all the track, etc., is on.  You would have to be careful to vacuum up all the excess grass dust to prevent it getting into the loco motors.

 

Another thing I used to do, when I worked with Z gauge, was to use Woodland Scenics Flex Paste.  This could be coloured as you like with WS Toners, and since you were only doing a small space you only mixed small bits at a time.  The Flex Paste was specially developed to be used on Styrofoam.

 

There are lots of tricks.  You just have to find some that work for you.

 

gerryo