Gerry's Japanese Layout

[gerryo]

Hi NJHA.

You are right about the first three colours.

The green line is elevated to an elevated station. There was no other way to get storage yards for Shinkansens. This was shown to me on a layout plan from kvp on a different forum.

The lower yard will be used by freight and local commuter trains.

The curves on the elevated line are 15 inch and 16.5 inch. These are the widest that Kato make in their double, elevated track.

The curves on the blue line are 11 inch and 12.5 inch which seem to be regular track for short car trains.

The Unitram Lines are 6 inch and 7 inch which are close to the Unitram standard at 1 inch centers. This is adjustable if the track is laid before the building plan is committed.

 

Maybe this will answer some questions, but if there is something that I am missing, please point it out to me. This is my firt real foray into the use of Kato track and it would be hard to change horses now as a lot has been ordered and received.

 

gerryo

[NJHA]

Kato tracks are very good, i also use them. If it was today i would probably choose tomix due to more variety but both are good. The lack of variety from kato forces us to come up with sensible layouts so all is not that bad :) 

 

You just left open the turnout issue on the stations. I also had that idea once, that before i was told it wasn't such a great idea. Trains stationed over the points is not such a good thing as point blades are delicate. Also accidental operation of a turnout while a train is passing or stationed over it may do some damage.

But lets see what the other guys have to say about it.  

[gerryo]

Another question I have is whether I need storage tracks at the small local station?  Having them there seriously impedes what I can do with Unitram in the center portion of this layout.  I have already ordered the Unitram V50 set and if I don't use it for a children's layout, then it does not fit in here very well with the storage tracks there.

 

As to the turnout issue at the stations.  Kato does not offer any curved turnouts, and since all (or most) of my straits are taken up by stations, there is not much option.

 

Any ideas?

gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerryo,

 

Are you using unitram track? I'd so be aware they are a bit wide due to the street sections attached so you may need to do some hacking to make them fit as close as you have them to other tracks on your plan. If not unitram trak and you are using unitrak to make a similar pattern remeber that the spacing needs to be 33mm not 25mm to use parallel curves. Standard ttrak and unitram use the 25mm spacing on the straights (makes nice close running street tram tracks) but they have to swing the curves out in non parallel fashion (in ttrak using small straights to swing out the outer track and unitram they swing out to 33mm spacing at the 45 degree point). So it gets tough to do curves with double track at the 25mm spacing, but it is possible.

 

To do curves to 25mm spacing on a 90 degree curve It's basically on the outside track using a 44.5mm straight, then 90 degree of the radius curve you are using followed by another 44.5mm straight. On the inside curve it's a 45 degree of the radius curve you are using and a 29mm straight (ends up in the middle of the final 90 degree curve), then another 45 of the radius curve you are using. This gives you flush ends and 25mm spacing at the ends. Works but is a bit clunky, but close to prototypical sweep curves seen on street tram track like this to avoid bumping on tight curves.

 

http://home.insightbb.com/~ttrak2.cincy/TTrak.030000000/240BiggerCorners/BasicCorners.gif

 

Attaching the Shinkansen viaduct to the ground level probably is not needed if you are not storing trains there. The two passing sidings in the shinkanstation will give you two storage tracks.

 

Looks like you are going to have fun!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited January 17, 2015 by cteno4

[gerryo]

I understand about the Unitram curve tracks and turnouts.  In the T-Track club I was in, we used the 33mm track spacing for all our tracks.  It was safer and we didn't have to figure out the deviation on every curve we made.

 

I have put in the single track connection from the Shinkansen viaduct down to the ground level, not so much to get the Shinkansens down, but sometimes I think I would like to see how some of the local commuters will look on the viaduct.  Just a quirk of mine.!!!

 

Thanx for the critique,

gerryo.

[gerryo]

In this copy I have decreased the Shinkansen storage tracks to 2.  I don't think I will ever have more than 4 Shinkansens.

 

I have taken away the storage tracks on the small station and changed the station from center platform to side playform and put in 2 sidings, which could serve as storage.

 

I have changed the number of storage tracks on the larger local track station, and I think these will be plenty.

 

I have indicated where my town sites will be, but find it difficult to draw in the Unitram tracks.  If I use regular Unitram sets then they will take care of themselves.  The important part here is to find if the ready made sets will fit.  Everything has to start with the V50 set, which has been on order for a few months now, but there is no indication from Kato just when they will be producing it.

 

I think this is as far as I need go with this layout plan.  I find it difficult to find dimensions of Kato Items and will have to wait for their cargo containers to be found. 

 

gerryo

Edited January 18, 2015 by gerryo

[katoftw]

V50 are available.  Buy from another source.

[gerryo]

Where would you suggest?  I'm getting no help from my supplier.

 

gerryo

[the_weird_one]

I can highly recommend both Dave at http://www.loco1hobby.net and  Nariichi at http://www.modeltrainplus.net/

 

Great service from both, may not have everything listed on their websites but do have the ability to source requests.

Edited January 18, 2015 by the_weird_one

[NJHA]

I find it difficult to find dimensions of Kato Items and will have to wait for their cargo containers to be found. 

 

gerryo

What items? track? or buildings? 

Have you tried their homepage (http://www.katomodels.com/index_e.shtml)? They usually have all info there (either in English or Japanese but for the later google can translate). 

 

As for suppliers, well you were given the best. I have bought from both David at loco1hobby and Nariichi at Modeltrainplus and their service is great. Also if they don't have the item in stock (that is usually the case for less bought items and most of the track items) they search for it locally and try their best to help out.

Prices are sometimes even better than other large shops, and shipping rates from Japan are low.  

[cteno4]

Gerryo,

 

Modeltrainstuff.com is a great unitrak source. They are also a distributor so tend to have a very good stock and prices. They also have a large retail store in the Baltimore area so are not Internet only... Klein's (store name) has a close relationship with kato and even brings over Japanese trains with kato every couple of years.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

On checking with three other suppliers, Model Train Stuff, Loco 1 Hobby, and Model Train Plus, I have recieved the same answer.  There are none in stock anywhere.  Kato will not indicate when it will be re-released.

 

Seems strange that the base unit for Unitram will not be available for some unknown time.  ??

 

I will turn my endeavors to my main R.R.

 

Seems I will have to come up with a name for it.  Do most people name their railroads these days?

 

gerryo

[katoftw]

I just had a look on the KatoUSA website.  If you download the V50 english manual, is has the dimensions of the product.  Page 4 of the pdf.

 

Turns out a full 90 degree turn is a 248x248mm square.  And you can place 124mm straights in between them.

 

The V50 set comes as an oval 496x620mm with a 186x620mm length of road only section.

 

With this information, you can start planning your layout with a gigantic hole in the middle. haha

[gerryo]

Yes, thanx katoftw.  I was able to find those dimensions and will use them to build my "very large hole in the center".

 

I just recieved my first NEW Japanese train.  It's the E6 Shinkansen "Super Komachi" 3 unit set. I got this from Model Train Stuff in record time.  The next part will probably take longer.  It is the four part Add On Set coming from Narichii at Model Train Plus.

 

I have also ordered today, the Kato Viaduct Station Set and the Expansion Set from Baltimore.  Also the Overhead Station Set and the Expansion Set for the local Commuters.

 

That should keep me busy until Kato decides about the Unitram system.

 

gerryo

Edited January 20, 2015 by gerryo

[katoftw]

If you cannot wait for a V50.  You could purchase 2x V51 sets.  You would have everything to make a oval.  But might end up with a few spares.  You'd also need to buy the feeders, stations and catenaries seperately.  Cost is a bit more than a V50, but you do end up with more pieces than the V50 offers.

Edited January 21, 2015 by katoftw

[gerryo]

Thanx katoftw.  I never thought to compare the two sets.  And yes, you are right.  I already have one on the way, and there are some in stock in Baltimore.

 

The extra pieces will be used to do the additional areas (along with other sets), so other problems are solved as well

 

Thanx again,

gerryo

[cteno4]

gerryo,

 

ahh see you found model train stuff! good first place to look as they do tend to have pretty good prices on unitrak and sometimes some good prices on misc japanese trains they get from kato. at times their sale prices can be very good and like you said very fast priority shipping for about sal shipping prices! 

 

their selection of unitrak is usually great as they are also a distributor and have a big mail order operation (as well as store front) so lots of inventory. there are a few other large unitrak shops in the us as well that usually keep good inventories and prices at about kleins, everyone seems to have their favorite, but probably 4-5 that are all great about the same price. unitrak is the one thing that is usually cheaper to buy in the us, but with the dip in the yen you can actually get it like 10-20% cheaper shipped sal from japan (vs priority mail in the us) these days, just have to wait two weeks... also sometimes easier to find an odd piece in japan and ship it over rather than wait if katousa has run out and wait on their containers to arrive and distribute.

 

their train selection can be odd. every year or two they buy about a gross of japanese train sets (500, n700. e5, e6, thunderbird etc), usually 12 ea of 12 different sets and they go up for sale at like japanese list or a bit more. its a little more expensive than buying from japan or about the same if you use ems shipping from japan usually. these usually sell slow for a year then they will do a fire sale a lot of times and you can at times find stuff there for like 30%+ off list! so its good to poke around there once and a while!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[gerryo]

Well, I blew it with the V51 Sets.  Sold out already.  I'll make contact to see if more are on their way to Baltimore.  Maybe a Pre-order?

 

gerryo

[gerryo]

OK.  GOT ONE.

 

Coming from Hobby Search.

[katoftw]

I was just gonna suggest them.

[gerryo]

I now have my second new Japanese train. The Odakyu 7000 just arrived and I now have two matching trains. Thanx to Narichii for fantastic service.

 

I also spent the day getting some extraneous junk moved out of my train room and have 3 of the 5 tables set up and it looks like I will have a fairly spacious room to work. Just wish I had some track laid on my oval to run this train.

 

Ah well, it's coming.

 

gerryo

Edited January 23, 2015 by gerryo

[gerryo]

I made the first little beginning to my layout.    And it has nothing to do with trains.  I started to cut into the styrofoam to make my dock area and found that I hadn't ordered enough of the steel walling for around the piers.  Will just have to slow down and not get things so muddled.

 

I've been in this apartment for a year and 3 months, and finally got my trainroom cleaned out enough to make a start on the tables and top surface.

 

Good things are happenen'

 

gerryo

[cteno4]

Good beginnings Gerry, good beginnings!

 

Jeff

[ozman2009]

Keep up the good work!

[gerryo]

Her is an interesting question?

 

In Japan (and England) and other regimes, The UP train runs on the Left track and the DOWN train on the Right.  Where we have continuous loops on a Japanese layout, on the oposite side of the loop, the Left track becomes the Right track and the Right track becomes the Left.  Which one is now UP and which one is now DOWN?

 

Or does it not matter?

 

gerryo