Kato - New Releases

[westfalen]

I must have that C50 and accompanying car set. And when I say must have, I really do mean must have, and not just want to have ;)

Me too.  They can keep the rest, except maybe the new DD13. :)

 

Cheeses me off a bit though that I got the first release E655 without the Emperor's car, went to all the trouble of finding the Emperor's car for it when they did the first, not for general release special run, then the flags and chrysanthemum emblems for it and now Kato seem to rerun the whole train with all the bits and pieces a couple of times a year. :icon_scratch:

[katoftw]

I walked into a Popondetta store 8 level up above Hakata station and got the E655 and Emperor's car in October 2014.  I think from memory it was last releases early 2014.  And all online stock had got.  But this store had 5 of each.

 

I'm keen on the C50 and Oha 32000s also.  Still considering the DD13.  Just don't know what I'd use it for.

[katoftw]

boxes look like this

 

 

here's all of them

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=104&cat=&state=&sold=0&sortid=0&searchkey=Legend+Collection+&spage=1&Make=Kato

I feel underwhelmed.

 

What makes them legendary?

[Gordon Werner]

I feel underwhelmed.

 

What makes them legendary?

 

 

apparently they're just a series of models that highlight some of the "finest cars that decorate the railway history of Japan" ... they have a special case and they are limited in production

 

I don't know if the cars have different numbers or different details from the regular sets

[Krackel Hopper]

I feel underwhelmed.

 

What makes them legendary?

 

The Legend Collection isn't about the model being extra special..

although it probably does contain unique number/destination boards..

 

It is about the prototype and acknowledging the prototypes legendary or iconic status in the history of Japanese railways.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

The TGV Duplex 206 in this poster is the same paint scheme as the TGV Lyria in the previous poster.

 

Have any Japanese Class E10 Locomotives (2-10-4) been made in N-Gauge?

[Krackel Hopper]

Have any Japanese Class E10 Locomotives (2-10-4) been made in N-Gauge?

 

MicroAce E10-2 (A7701)

MicroAce E10-1 (A7703)

 

I don't think they're too hard to find.. but expect to pay a premium to get one..

http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f166799102

[Welshbloke]

Like the look of the new "Getaden" units, will have to see if I can get hold of some to go with my KuMoHa 12/KuMoNi 13 pair. Given I'm planning a mini layout they'll be perfect, using the normal historical adjustment of "in my alternate reality one was preserved, so here it is running a branch line service on a summer weekend or visiting an open day at the EMU depot".

 

Have Kato made any other similar brown EMUs that I've missed? Bearing in mind that I had a bit of a gap from 2008 or so through to 2015, in which I wasn't following Japanese N at all.

 

One thing from testing my KuMoHa/KuMoNi: They're not overly fond of R150 curves, with noticeable growling. I'd have no worries about running them through R150 pointwork into storage sidings as it's only a short length, but I'd fear for the gearing if they were run for long periods on an R150 loop. They're quite happy on R183s though, so if you can make your layout a mere 66mm wider and longer your units will thank you.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Welshbloke

[railsquid]

Like the look of the new "Getaden" units, will have to see if I can get hold of some to go with my KuMoHa 12/KuMoNi 13 pair. Given I'm planning a mini layout they'll be perfect, using the normal historical adjustment of "in my alternate reality one was preserved, so here it is running a branch line service on a summer weekend or visiting an open day at the EMU depot".

 

Have Kato made any other similar brown EMUs that I've missed? Bearing in mind that I had a bit of a gap from 2008 or so through to 2015, in which I wasn't following Japanese N at all.

 

I've only been following Japanese N since 2014 (and the last time I was following model trains Lima was still a viable undertaking), but having spent way too much time poking round the shops here, I have yet to see any brown olde-style EMUs from Kato. Definitely going for a pair of the new ones when they come out. Seems Kato have got a bit of a hit on their hands, I dithered about the KuMoHa 12 and by the time I realised I wanted one, it had seemingly vanished from the market, though I saw on on Yahoo Auctions for about 3 times the retail price.

[westfalen]

I feel underwhelmed.

 

What makes them legendary?

I know I'd rather ride in one with its comfortable seats, big windows and smooth ride than a lot of the more modern trains that JR seem to design these days.

[Welshbloke]

I've only been following Japanese N since 2014 (and the last time I was following model trains Lima was still a viable undertaking), but having spent way too much time poking round the shops here, I have yet to see any brown olde-style EMUs from Kato. Definitely going for a pair of the new ones when they come out. Seems Kato have got a bit of a hit on their hands, I dithered about the KuMoHa 12 and by the time I realised I wanted one, it had seemingly vanished from the market, though I saw on on Yahoo Auctions for about 3 times the retail price.

 

Had a thought later, the KuMoYa 90 probably qualifies (although I think they're slightly longer?)

 

Those also seem to have flown off the shelves, judging by how hard they are to come by. Hopefully Kato will make another batch with different running numbers in the near future.

 

PM'd you regarding KuMoHa 12s, I know of a reputable seller with a couple left in stock...

[kvp]

On the other hand, Tomix did quite a few of them, including standard and higer grade 72 series, and various cars in the train collection range and even a single 12 series way back when they started. Just didn't make it a whole product range, like Kato.

 

ps: now if i could make these Kato cars run good on R140... (they almost bind on R140 and only run well at R150 or above)

[Welshbloke]

One interesting thing I've noticed on the two "Getaden" I already have - the couplers are non-standard.

 

Kato have made a standard Tightlock-inspired coupler for a while which is fitted to most of their mainstream EMUs and available as spares. The one fitted to the Getaden units doesn't have the little hook mounted below the realistic coupler, instead it's more like the Tomix design with the prong and socket doing all of the work (rather than just preventing the underslung hooks from disengaging).

 

You can understand why as these units presumably weren't electrically compatible with later JNR stock, so not being able to couple my KuMoHa 12 to my 165 Series is about as much of a problem as not being able to couple it to a TaKi. I think I've noticed the same coupler popping up on recent 101 Series units though. I wonder if Kato will slowly roll it out across the range, whenever something is to be retooled?

 

Incidentally, if you're planning a layout for these 17m beasties then I strongly suggest using at least 183mm curves, or whatever Tomix offer that's closest. They will run through 150mm but mine make a lot of gear noise while doing so, which suggests to me that it'd probably cause excessive strain and wear if you did it continually. By all means use the 150mm points for a yard, as the tight curve is only for a short distance and not being run through continually, but if you're going to have a continuous run then make the curves a bit gentler.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Welshbloke

[kvp]

The couplers are european style, both the close coupler mechanics and the form of the couplers themselves. On the other hand, if they can't run through R150 without grinding, we have a serious problem as they are meant to and the main reason for using the prototype cars for so long was that they could pass through curves that were not possible with longer, more modern stock. (i can understand that Kato cars don't like Tomix R140 curves, but R150 is Kato's own small radius standard) These short cars just lend themselves to R150 based layouts, like a basic oval with two stub tracks inside using two R150 turnouts.

[Gordon Werner]

The couplers are european style, both the close coupler mechanics and the form of the couplers themselves. On the other hand, if they can't run through R150 without grinding, we have a serious problem as they are meant to and the main reason for using the prototype cars for so long was that they could pass through curves that were not possible with longer, more modern stock. (i can understand that Kato cars don't like Tomix R140 curves, but R150 is Kato's own small radius standard) These short cars just lend themselves to R150 based layouts, like a basic oval with two stub tracks inside using two R150 turnouts.

 

which models are we talking about here?

[kvp]

Kato Kumoha12 and Kumoni13. The prototypes were the residents of the Kamakura shops and afaik most of them were demolished together with the shop buildings, very much the same way like the one that was in the Sakuma rail park.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10330655

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10330654

http://www.japaneserailwaysociety.com/jrs/members/naito/wrkshp/kmh12.jpg

http://www.japaneserailwaysociety.com/jrs/members/naito/wrkshp/kmh11.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KUMONI_13_of_JNR.jpg

http://www.japaneserailwaysociety.com/jrs/sakuma/kmh12.jpg

 

[200系]

 

 

On the other hand, if they can't run through R150 without grinding, we have a serious problem as they are meant to and the main reason for using the prototype cars for so long was that they could pass through curves that were not possible with longer, more modern stock. (i can understand that Kato cars don't like Tomix R140 curves, but R150 is Kato's own small radius standard)

 

Uhhm..that's sort of correct, but not entirely true

 

The Nambu Hama-kawasaki shisen (Ku)MoHa 11形/ KuHa 16形 two car formations stayed in service until 1980 because there was no real need to replace them before then. there are no really sharp curves around the Nambu branch either. They simply served a small niche until they where replaced by two car 101系 formations in 1980.

 

While the Tsurumi sen KuMoHa 12形50番台 single cars where indeed kept in service because of the curve at Musashi-Shiraishi station on the Ōkawa-shisen (Ōkawa branch), it had nothing to do with the radius of the curve it's self being unsuitable for 20m class cars (after all, the curve near Asano at the entry of the Umi-Shibaura branch has a similar radius (slightly tighter even), and that branch used 72系 formations since their introduction in 1972, without any issues) , but everything to do with the fact that there was a station platform (part of Musashi-Shiraishi station) along said curve.

This meant the 20m car classes, due to their larger overhang, would risk clipping the station platform on the outer curve (it was an island platform) while on the inner curve the gap between the car and platform was considered too large to be safe.

 

As the surviving KuMoHa 12形50番台 cars where ageing, and JR East simply couldn't keep them running anymore (they where after all originally part of the 31系, with the oldest cars being part of the first, 1929 production batches, reaching 67 years of service at their retirement in 1996), it was decided to demolish the platform it's self (the outer curve had already been reduced to a stub track a few years earlier, and was completely removed along with the platform), allowing for the introduction of 20m class cars (first with three car, low cab, former Chūō-Sōbu sen 103系 formations, and since 2004 with the current  three car 205系1100番台 formations) on the entire Tsurumi sen.

 

The current 205系 formations assigned to the Ōkawa-shisen still uses the inner curve (the curve it's self was never altered) to enter the branch.

 

Besides, the mentioned curve has a ~60~70m radius in real life, which would translate to 400~466mm in 1/150, or more then twice the radius of R150, and even such a curve is taken, squealing and growling, with a speed limit of 25km/h in real life.

 

To illustrate, two youtube clips from the Ōkawa-shisen:

 

Forward view from a KuMoHa 12形 (12053) filmed in 1992 (Okawa-shisen section starts at 7:27), captures the growling sound of the nose-suspension drive (which is where the 'getaden' nickname originates from) perfectly as well:

The same section in 2013, the location of the former Musashi-Shiraishi station platform is passed at around the 1:17 mark.

 

 

 

The prototypes were the residents of the Kamakura shops and afaik most of them were demolished together with the shop buildings

 

They where based at Bentembashi (Tsurumi)/Nakahara (Nambu) centre respectively. KuMoHa 12053 was detained at Ōfuna centre (later renamed to the mentioned Kamakura centre) until she was scrapped in 2013. 12052 has been preserved at the Tōkyō general rolling stock centre (former Ōi centre). Those two where the only KuMoHa 12形50番台 cars whom lasted until 1996, the other four where retired between 1971~1986.

 

 

 

very much the same way like the one that was in the Sakuma rail park

 

Since ownership of the Sakuma rail park collection was transferred to JR Tōkai's SC Maglev museum in 2008, and as they already had a KuMoHa 12形 (12041), though of a different subtype, 12054 was used to supply parts for the transformation of KuMoYa 90005 back into her original 63系 (Ku)MoHa 63形 ((Ku)MoHa 63638) guise. What remained was scrapped, as well as the OHaFu 33形 (supplied parts for the other preserved passenger cars from the same era), ED62形, KuMoE 21形, KuYa 165形and the two freight cars. The remaining 12 pieces of equipment where either transferred to the JR Tōkai museum or preserved elsewhere.

Edited January 10, 2016 by 200系

[kvp]

Now the real question is if these models can operate on Kato R150 curves and turnouts without damaging their gearing or not? It's important because it would allow small layouts with available track and turnout types. (including recreating the aforementioned platform in one corner, which would allow near b-train compactness with uncompressed rolling stock)

[Welshbloke]

I can only comment on my experiences with them. Mine will go through a 150mm radius curve without jamming or stalling, but I'm not overly fond of the resulting gear noise (which isn't present when running on straights or around gentler curves). If you can find an extra 66mm width and depth for a layout and use 183mm curves instead it'll look better, and I didn't notice any extra noise on those curves compared to straight track.

[kvp]

There are no R183 turnouts and adding an R150 to an R183 curve looks off. So what you are saying is that these emus are not fully R150 compatible? Afaik they were advertised as small radius compatible... (small is relative though) Anyone else with R150 turnouts who could test them?

[katoftw]

It is no different from say Tomix shinkansens with the minimum of R280.  While they'll navigate the curve, they don't like it.  I have a few Kato trains also that are min R249, but like larger radi curves.

[Welshbloke]

Exactly.

 

They would be fine with an R183 oval, and R150 pointwork IMO. I'd be inclined to build a long, thin layout on a shelf using #4 points instead, as they're easier to fit around Kato platforms than the R150s (I've yet to find a way to make R150 points give 66mm track centres while also maintaining the standard 62mm grid). In fact, if I wasn't deeply into designing a layout inspired by one of these branch lines (mine will have a depot next to a small island platform terminus) I'd be sorely tempted.

 

Like I said, they will go through an R150 curve without jamming or derailing, but they don't sound entirely happy about it and I wouldn't like to guess how long the gearing (or more likely the UJs on the drive shafts) would tolerate it.

[kvp]

This means they can't be reliably run on R140 or R150 show or home layouts for an extended time. That sounds like a problem. If the Kato RhB sets woulnd't be happy running on R150 after they managed to bring out a precast layout for them, Kato would be in big trouble from european customers. I expected the same reliability from their japanese trains. Larger curves with R150 points don't work if the diverging route is part of the loop and the straight one goes to the siding.

 

ps: Tomix supports its small radius range with diorama templates and lots of rolling stock with tomytec trains. I really hoped these trains were part of Kato's effort to do the same.

[railsquid]

FWIW Kato explicitly states suitability for R150: "R150で小半径のレイアウトでも走行が可能" -> "possible to run on R150 small radius layouts too"

( http://www.katomodels.com/n/kumoha12/ ).

 

I don't have any curves that tight so can't test.

[Fenway Park]

Photos of the 155 based excursion train, 14-500 series sleeping cars, C50 chassis, E233, Rhb Bernina coaches, EF13, Suha 32 stock and Heating Car plus 2 Iida Line EMUs and 50 series coaches are on N Gauge Information. 

 

The C50 chassis will give Kato the ability to make a C10 and C11 in the future. It may be possible to use the chassis as a base for the 8620.