Bandai B-Train Shorty

[lukewang01]

On 4/30/2021 at 5:15 PM, kami_illy said:

 

I used the old draw bars that i still had from older sets. They don't have any decorational elements but are shorter than the newer ones. Also I used the old chassis which have the pins for the couplers / draw bars on the bogeys and not on the car bodies (that makes it easier to convert them later). 

What wheels are you using to go with the older chassis? I want to reuse some of those chassis and be able to put bogie sides on them.

[Dinosbacsi]

Decided to try swapping the roofs on my 103 series to the not air-conditioned ones. Mainly because I don't get these other ones, why do they have two AC units on the roof, opposed to the usually only one in the middle?

Can't decide yet which one looks better. It looks a bit too plain without the AC unit on the roof, but I don't think these double-AC units are prototypical to the Chuo-Sobu line, are they? Which route may have had their 103s like this?

[bill937ca]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the Series 103.  https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/国鉄103系電車

 

There have been 103s with three roof mounted a/c units.  https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ファイル:L25_Tc103-516_680.jpg

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:JNR_103?uselang=ja

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:JNR_103_in_canary_yellow_livery?uselang=ja

[railsquid]

I'm not an expert but I think the distributed A/C arrangement is usually associated with units modified by JR West (for whatever reason). The only JR East units I'm aware of with similar were the 103-3000 units on the Kawagoe line, but they weren't "proper" 103s anyway.

[disturbman]

JR East 103-1200 also had partially distributed A/C arrangements. Probably due to having to run-through tunnels.

Edited May 4, 2021 by disturbman

[Dinosbacsi]

After a bit of googling and translating random japanese sites, it looks like the Tsurumi Line had some of their 103s like this, with two smaller AC units instead of one bigger.

 

Well I suppose then I'll do the rest of my cars as well and use the non-AC roofs to make it more prototypical for Chuo Sobu. Then maybe get a set of roofs with the AC in the middle if I find some junk for a good price.

[kami_illy]

On 5/2/2021 at 7:02 PM, lukewang01 said:

What wheels are you using to go with the older chassis? I want to reuse some of those chassis and be able to put bogie sides on them.

 

Actually I'll exchange the whole chassis for the T-Kais. The Bandai ones I put now is this one equipped with the high flange wheels. 

 

[Dinosbacsi]

Talking about Bandai chassises, what are your guys experience with older T trucks versus the newer T-Kai chassises?

 

I'm asking because, as I've wrote about it in my previous posts, my 205 series has T-Kai chassis, while my 103 series has original chassis with replaced T trucks. And my 103 series seems to derail a bit more, compared to the 205, which never has problems. It looks like the older T trucks seem to behave worse when being pushed from behind.

 

For example, as it goes around in my small loop layout, there is a 117mm radius curve where the front car's rear truck will sometimes jump off the rails as the motorized car pushes it from behind. Also if the motorized car is pushing more than 1 trailer cars in front of it, then the couplers will very often uncouple themselves in turns.

 

Interestingly the 205 with the T-Kai chassis does not have this problem. The couplers are a bit different on the T trucks and the T-Kai chassis, I suspect the ones on the T trucks may be an older and worse designs that are more prone to uncoupling when being pushed in tight curves?

[lukewang01]

Old T trucks have a higher resistance. Takes a bit more juice to get them going.

[bill937ca]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:49 PM, Dinosbacsi said:

Decided to try swapping the roofs on my 103 series to the not air-conditioned ones. Mainly because I don't get these other ones, why do they have two AC units on the roof, opposed to the usually only one in the middle?

Can't decide yet which one looks better. It looks a bit too plain without the AC unit on the roof, but I don't think these double-AC units are prototypical to the Chuo-Sobu line, are they? Which route may have had their 103s like this?

Going through my files, I came across this source of 103 Series Sobu Line photos circa 2000.

 

https://yoshidahideo.com/data/5000_jr103_soubu.shtml

[Dinosbacsi]

As I posted in the other thread as well, my newest order finally arrived today with a bunch of Shorty stuff. So yay!

 

For starters there is this beautiful high-cab 103 series. Interestingly it came with a front skirt installed, even though Bandai doesn't even include those for these 103s. I suppose the previous owner was like me and felt they look horrible without one, so bought a set then put them on - and I'm grateful for that, as I think it looks great, even if it's not prototypical at all. And it also came with stickers applied, which is nice. For just 1200 yen I think this was a great purchase.

 

Then there was also this EF64-0 series. It just looks so cute, lol. It was a bit more expensive with a 2000 yen price, but it was new - without a box though, but everything still in the small packages and unassembled. So I had the fun of putting it together. I really like the fact that they included a second set of roofs and front cabs so you can make either an older or a newer variant out of it. And also the sticker sheet includes a lot of EF64 running numbers - I wonder which one should I put on, if any?

 

I plan to use it mostly for EMU towing, like they do around the Tokyo area in real life as well. Though in real life the 3 locomotives used for this are EF64-1000 series, not the 0 series like mine, but well... it is what it is. If I already gave up on being completely prorotypical with the 103s front skirts, then I might as well install shibata couplers on this EF64-0 series as well, lol. So I think that's what I will do, anyway.

 

I also got myself this junk 201 series cab car. It came without a chassis and any truck covers, but will be good for spares or experiementing in the future, I suppose. Until then, the EF64 can have some fun towing it around.

So my small desk shelf layout suddenly got really crowded, as you can see, but I love it. I love the look of tis small fleet. And the lack of space will stop me from ordering more trains for a while, at least, lol.

[disturbman]

Nice, yellow fleet.

 

Wait until you start putting those away in a nice Casco case. The amount of trains you will have will explode 😉

Edited May 12, 2021 by disturbman

[kami_illy]

2 hours ago, disturbman said:

The amount of trains you will have will explode 😉

 

Oh yeah. Started for me with buying the KeihinTohoku E233 as b-train bc I couldn't afford the Kato/Tomix version at that time (was using all the money that i didn't have to life and eat while doing an internship in Yokohama)... and then a 205 YokohamaLine... and then... you know bc they are cheap, there are a lot (at least back then) and so on. 

And now I shifted from full N-scale to Shorties (almost) entirely!

 

But anyways, welcome down here in the rabbit hole, haha!

 

BTW. I'm loving how the Shorty topic is so alive again these days. Just wish Bandai would do the same and continue producing some...

Edited May 12, 2021 by kami_illy

[Dinosbacsi]

11 hours ago, disturbman said:

Nice, yellow fleet.

 

Wait until you start putting those away in a nice Casco case. The amount of trains you will have will explode 😉

Thanks. But nah, I'm not the type to put them in a case. If I have them, I prefer them to be on rails. At least it's a deterrent to keep me from buying more, because the "yard" is full. Until I buy more track, that is ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

At some point I would like to get a 113 series and a 103-1200 series as well, as those would be more unique, but stil fitting for the Chuo-Sobu theme. There is a nice 103-1200 series up for auction currently, but it's a bit expensive. So I still I will pass for now, I would rather spend on rails, and chassis/motors for the trains I already have. Then hopefully I will find another 103-1200 series in the future as well. They seem to be a bit rare, but they should still emerge from time to time, right?

 

8 hours ago, kami_illy said:

BTW. I'm loving how the Shorty topic is so alive again these days. Just wish Bandai would do the same and continue producing some...

Yes, when I first got into them, I was afraid they were "dead meat" by now and not many people care about them. But happy to see how many people know and enjoy them still. Even in our local Hungarian facebook group I found another member who has a few shorties.

[Dinosbacsi]

So I got the Kato couplers installed today on my 205 series.

 

I have to say, visually they're great. Just like the pantographs, it's a really big upgrade for really cheap.

As mentioned by someone else previously when we talked about these couplers, they really do come with a small hook under the shibata coupler which keeps the trains together. It's a bit weird looking, also coupling and uncoupling the cars is a real pain with these, you need to do it with a weird twisting motion - but you wouldn't be taking these trains apart every day anyway, so just couple them up once and they're good.

 

However there is an issue. It seems to handle my tight 117mm curves very badly. The couplers have much less free movement in them, as not only do they couple to each other more tightly, but they also move less in their housing. You can see on the picture that their "T" shaped ends that go into the housing are much bigger. So for one they don't fit/need the coupler spring at all, and they also required some cutting on the sides to fit into the housing.

So I think these result in the couplers and the trucks reaching their movement limit in the 117mm curves and that results in the cars lifting or tilting a bit. Because getting into the 117mm curve, the train pretty much always stutters or stops completely. Has anyone had similar issues with these couplers, either with Shorties or normal trains?

 

I wonder if there is any fix to this, because if no, then I'll have to go back to the old couplers.

[bill937ca]

Generally to handle R117 curves Rapido couplers are advised for the play they bring to the train and short trains ideally with two axles because there is more play.  Tight couplers result in car bodies fighting the trucks as they go around curves. R117 is almost tram track.

Edited May 13, 2021 by bill937ca

[kami_illy]

31 minutes ago, Dinosbacsi said:

I wonder if there is any fix to this,

Having no experience with R117 but if you glue the two parts of each coupler together you can cut the T-shaped end a bit more so they can wiggle in their pockets... I did this with my 500 Shinkansen bc the boogies have almost no room to turn properly.

[Dinosbacsi]

1 hour ago, kami_illy said:

if you glue the two parts of each coupler together you can cut the T-shaped end a bit more so they can wiggle in their pockets... I did this with my 500 Shinkansen bc the boogies have almost no room to turn properly.

Yeah I'll probably try this tomorrow. As mentioned I already had to cut into them a bit to get the cover of the coupler housing to snap back on. And I suppose my cutting wasn't the same each time, as a few of the couplers do have some free movement in their housing, while other ones don't have any. So maybe if I cut some more on those, then they will have a bit more free movement and it will be able to handle the curves - as currently it always gets stuck when the bogey with the non-moving coupler reaches the turn.

[mags_minibuilds]

I finally got a set of Kato 11-106 motorized chassis and Tomix 91080 tracks to test out my shorties. I find that once the chassis is installed, it’s difficult to remove it without disassembling parts of the shell. Is there a method to remove the chassis without disassembling? I read that people like to swap the motorized chassis to other shells but I can’t see how this can be done easily without disassembling.

 

This particular train came with two skirts, I’m assuming this one would clear the coupler, but it doesn’t. It catches onto the coupler and it won’t move freely. Should the skirt be removed all together or there’s some way to put it on?

 

Thanks!

Edited May 25, 2021 by ZandT

[Dinosbacsi]

Well, for removing the chassis, the best method I found is to pull one of the sidewalls from under outwards (using your nails or something) so the chassis pops out easier. Though it could depend on the cassis and the Shorty model in question, as some can be tighter, while others can be looser. But this is the best method I think, without having to disassemble the train.

 

Regarding the skirts issue... Well, I know that on the Bandai T-Kai chassises you can simply rotate the front truck by 180 degress, so it's backwards and the coupler won't catch the skirt. But obviously that method doesn't work on motorized chassises, older Bandai chassises, or Kato trucks.

So with your Kato trucks, I think first check which part of the coupler inferferes with the skirt. Is it just the small pole sticking out at the bottom (where your arrow points)? Because if so, you could simply cut that part. I believe it's just there to use with automatic decouplers, so unless you plan on using those, it's pointless to have them.

Or you could replace the original Rapido couplers with Kato 11-703 couplers, like I did a few posts back, and those seem to clear the front skirts.

[mags_minibuilds]

Thanks @Dinosbacsi I had previously tried removing the chassis the way described but it had cracked the motor housing 🙁 and at one point, the motor cover was completely off the chassis. Guess the body is too tight on this model. It doesn't affect the operation but I'm just bummed.

 

[disturbman]

Yes, the shells can be a bit tight. As @Dinosbacsisaid, the best is to remove the sidewalls.

Since this is a KiHa, I would recommend switching the front Rapido couplers to Kato knuckle couplers (11-702/11-707) or to Greenmax (8055/8056 & 8053/8054) - I think the short shanks (8055/8056) should work here. They would look a lot better than the Rapido. Iirc, the issue is the pole.

I recently posted a comparison thread about the various knuckle couplers available: 

 

[mags_minibuilds]

Does anyone have the full instructions to this Keihan 600 kit? I think I can figure out how to put it together without the instructions but I want to make sure why there's so many front faces (4), is it so each compartment can become a single locomotive? And there's 4 pieces of the roof? Not sure if it's because I bought it second hand so the instructions are missing, but the one sheet that came with it only shows the chassis assembly, blank in the back. Thanks!

 

[cteno4]

Front, sides and top basically just pop onto the chassis. The different ends allow you to choose what kind of car you want to make for each.

 

also try using Google translate on your mobile device for translating bits of text in the instructions.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Dinosbacsi]

Yes, building a Shorty is pretty self explanatory. But the reason you get different front faces and rear walls is to be able to make different cars/variations.

 

For example, when buying a simple 2 car set, you can only build two cars at once, but you get enough parts to make either a cab car + a trailer car, or cab car + motor car or sometimes even 2 motor cars or 2 trailer cars. Meaning the faces you don't use simply remain as spares. And the same goes for roofs as well, as the roofs are different on the cab cars and on the motor cars and on the trailer cars. And sometimes you get different roofs as well, to be able to make air conditioned and non-air conditioned sets as well.