Tomytec Downtown Skyscraper

[cteno4]

There are transparency sheets for laser printers.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Samsill-Transparent-Projector-Transparency-Printers/dp/B07F45YXJD/ref=sr_1_5?crid=TE5FJG57FPKN&keywords=laser+printer+transparency+sheets&qid=1640749690&sprefix=Laser+printer+transp%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-5

 

i love color laser printers as they don’t bleed with any moisture and can do some very crisp looking output, even tiny. One downside is the fused toner on the paper ruins any paper texture where toner is. this can be good if you don’t want any texture on the piece, but bad if you do. Inkjets allow paper texture to come thru. but the fused toner at times can crack when you make sharp bends across the toner, don’t get this with inkjet.
 

Downside of most color laser is the toner cost is quite high, but you can refill some of them. Downside is they are mostly disposable these days, my fuser roll on my last one went and no potential for replacement parts (but same issue for inkjets these days). One downside of inkjet printers is you need to keep using them every week or the heads will start clogging and you are sunk.

 

jeff

[Madsing]

I'd go for gluing painted styrene strips (such as Evergreen 100, 101, 102 https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-white-polystrene-strips/products/102-010-x-040-opaque-white-polystyrene-strip). I like the 3D effect.

That's what I did for this (still unfinished) canopy.

 

 

The Northwest Short Line Chopper II helped a lot (https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/tools/products/chopper-ii).

It would have been much faster with a laser cutter, but I am not sure which to buy. I see a lot of engraving, or cutting paper, leather or wood, but not much styrene.

[cteno4]

I totally agree the chopper II is fantastic! Have to make sure on thicker stuff as the razor blades can bend and cut off perpendicular. There is a chap who sells a plate you can add to the outside of the blade to help prevent this. If you want perfect square you need to use a mini chop saw or use a sanding jig to get thing square but then it’s a mess to cut big and sand back to size.

 

if you want the Cadillac of choppers try the rp toolz cutter. Beautifully tooled in aluminum and very satisfying cutter. Still some blade deflection on bigger stuff but that’s always the issue with a chopper like this. Am going to make a brass plate for the outside of the blade. They make two thicknesses of blades as well, but they are not a general blade. I suspect they are used in some industrial machine and thus hard to source on their own. I like it as it’s beautifully tooled, has some heft to it and it’s smaller and easy to grab and do some cuts fast and put out of the way. I’ll do a review on it and some chop comparisons to the chopper II, been meaning to. Ain’t cheap though!

 

https://newtype.us/p/PkzQojdp8HLw04478R6F/h/rp-toolz-cutter

 

laser cutting styrene is it’s own art. A friend has had a larger laser cutter for many years (used it for making architectural models on the side until 3D printing wiped out that business) and he would do some styrene cutting and etching but it’s dicier with melting possible. He said he always had to calibrate it to the plastic batch and laser life (lasers slowly die off with time). You also have to be very careful to vent well, burning styrene has a whole host of nasties produced.

i too keep watching the laser cutters. Sadly they have not dived in price as the 3D printers have. One of these days!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[gavino200]

20 hours ago, cteno4 said:

There are transparency sheets for laser printers.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Samsill-Transparent-Projector-Transparency-Printers/dp/B07F45YXJD/ref=sr_1_5?crid=TE5FJG57FPKN&keywords=laser+printer+transparency+sheets&qid=1640749690&sprefix=Laser+printer+transp%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-5

 

That's great news. The more I thought about it, the more it would be a deal-breaker not to be able to print transparencies. I think they'll be great for making backlit signs - something I've been gagging to do for eons.

 

20 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

i love color laser printers as they don’t bleed with any moisture and can do some very crisp looking output, even tiny. One downside is the fused toner on the paper ruins any paper texture where toner is. this can be good if you don’t want any texture on the piece, but bad if you do. Inkjets allow paper texture to come thru. but the fused toner at times can crack when you make sharp bends across the toner, don’t get this with inkjet.

 

I think that should be ok. It happens when folding sankei paper details, like for the vending machines. I have a big set of fine markers that I use to touch them up.

 

20 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

Downside of most color laser is the toner cost is quite high, but you can refill some of them. Downside is they are mostly disposable these days, my fuser roll on my last one went and no potential for replacement parts (but same issue for inkjets these days). One downside of inkjet printers is you need to keep using them every week or the heads will start clogging and you are sunk.

 

 

Yes, that's a big downside for me. I don't have much use for color printing other than modelling, so jets drying out would likely be a problem.

[gavino200]

14 hours ago, Madsing said:

I'd go for gluing painted styrene strips (such as Evergreen 100, 101, 102 https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-white-polystrene-strips/products/102-010-x-040-opaque-white-polystyrene-strip). I like the 3D effect.

That's what I did for this (still unfinished) canopy.

 

I think you're right. I'm going to give it a try. Your canopy looks amazing btw. I'll have to check out the construction sequences on Yukari

 

14 hours ago, Madsing said:

 

 

The Northwest Short Line Chopper II helped a lot (https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/tools/products/chopper-ii).

It would have been much faster with a laser cutter, but I am not sure which to buy. I see a lot of engraving, or cutting paper, leather or wood, but not much styrene.

 

That looks pretty good. I have a similar one from Micro Mark. It's useful but I'm not completely satisfied with it as there is a bit of play in the hinge. With very small cuts that can become a bit problem.

 

I'd also like to get a laser cutter someday. I have to develop my modeling a good bit before I'll really deserve one though. Also I think a 3D printer will come before it on my priority list. But some day I hope to have 'em all 🙂

[cteno4]

3 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

That's great news. The more I thought about it, the more it would be a deal-breaker not to be able to print transparencies. I think they'll be great for making backlit signs - something I've been gagging to do for eons.

Yeah very fun, hardest bit is getting a thin diffuser to spread out the led light. I got a few side light leds to mess with for more vertical signs, but not yet tried them.

 

3 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Yes, that's a big downside for me. I don't have much use for color printing other than modelling, so jets drying out would likely be a problem.

Yeah I killed like 3 inkjet printers letting sit too long at one point then got the color laser that solved that problem, but at like 4 or 5 years the fuser roller went bad! I’m now back on an inkjet, but I may have just killed that one as it looks like one tank/head may not be working properly…

 

8 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

I think that should be ok. It happens when folding sankei paper details, like for the vending machines. I have a big set of fine markers that I use to touch them up.

Some papers were better than others about bending with toner. The toner at times can really crumble badly on a fold. Thinner papers do better on folds, but not as forgiving in the laser printer where paper path is a bit more stressful than inkjets.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

I totally agree the chopper II is fantastic! Have to make sure on thicker stuff as the razor blades can bend and cut off perpendicular. There is a chap who sells a plate you can add to the outside of the blade to help prevent this.

 

I've encountered this already. I need one!

 

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

If you want perfect square you need to use a mini chop saw or use a sanding jig to get thing square but then it’s a mess to cut big and sand back to size.

 

I bought one recently, but haven't used it yet. Actually I bought two by mistake. If anyone needs one, let me know.

 

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

if you want the Cadillac of choppers try the rp toolz cutter. Beautifully tooled in aluminum and very satisfying cutter. Still some blade deflection on bigger stuff but that’s always the issue with a chopper like this. Am going to make a brass plate for the outside of the blade. They make two thicknesses of blades as well, but they are not a general blade. I suspect they are used in some industrial machine and thus hard to source on their own. I like it as it’s beautifully tooled, has some heft to it and it’s smaller and easy to grab and do some cuts fast and put out of the way. I’ll do a review on it and some chop comparisons to the chopper II, been meaning to. Ain’t cheap though!

 

https://newtype.us/p/PkzQojdp8HLw04478R6F/h/rp-toolz-cutter

 

I must have one. Really, I think that's a worthwhile investment. That hinge looks bulletproof.

 

 

[cteno4]

2 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

That looks pretty good. I have a similar one from Micro Mark. It's useful but I'm not completely satisfied with it as there is a bit of play in the hinge. With very small cuts that can become a bit problem.

Yes it’s sort of a knockoff of the version 1 of the chopper, chopper II is much beefier on the hinge. The rp toolz is way strong and all metal, but pricy! 

[cteno4]

4 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

I must have one. Really, I think that's a worthwhile investment. That hinge looks bulletproof.

Lol tool pusher wins again! It’s well designed and machined. Again blade deflection can still be an issue on bigger stuff, but that’s the blade’s fault really, can have a thin blade that won’t deflect under pressure.

 

jeff

[Madsing]

2 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Lol tool pusher wins again! It’s well designed and machined. Again blade deflection can still be an issue on bigger stuff, but that’s the blade’s fault really, can have a thin blade that won’t deflect under pressure.

 

jeff

The RP Tools Cutter looks so much better than the Chopper II I have. The Tools section of newtype.us has many tools I'd like to have. Thanks for the link 😀

 

Funny when reading the last posts, ten times I thought "me too".

Last year I replaced my color last printer and went back to inkjet (still have a color laser at the office, in case I need one). I now have an Epson EcoTank. The ink is much much cheaper, so I can really print without worrying about the cost. Printing on photo paper gives really good results. Contrary to laser printers, colors are really saturated. I have tried printing on a transparency sheet with a color laser printer before and was disappointed by the result.

 

Example: I've tried to replicate the colorful wall inside the Toyama station. That was in 2018 and I still had the color laser printer. The second image shows the result, when lighted up the colors seem faded. I think that color laser printers cannot put enough ink onto the transparency. I'll do it again with an inkjet.

 

 

 

[cteno4]

Newtype is a good shop and good prices. It’s where I got my rp toolz cutter. Lots of tempting stuff there!
 

You are right, I totally forgot laserprinter color is not as saturated, good contrast but not saturated as inkjet. But I would also see them being more opaque on a transparency so also more muddled.

 

i was so good with my second inkjet after I let the first dry out over a couple of months I had a weekly test print to do to exercise the nozzles. That lasted about 6 months and the test prints petered out and then of course sometime in the next year it finally clogged up completely…

 

jeff

 

 

[gavino200]

19 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Lol tool pusher wins again! It’s well designed and machined. Again blade deflection can still be an issue on bigger stuff, but that’s the blade’s fault really, can have a thin blade that won’t deflect under pressure.

 

jeff

 

After thinking about this for a day, I'll probably hold off for now. I'll probably get it eventually, but I think I'll have to complete a few more buildings that I'm happy with before I feel I deserve it. In the meantime I'm going to draw very fine pencil lines and place the blade on the lines. That should make up for any play in the hinge.

 

I think I need to order some more blades for that thing.

[gavino200]

15 hours ago, Madsing said:

Last year I replaced my color last printer and went back to inkjet (still have a color laser at the office, in case I need one). I now have an Epson EcoTank. The ink is much much cheaper, so I can really print without worrying about the cost.

 

Is that one where you buy ink in bottles and fill the tanks when needed? Rather than buying new cartridges? I've heard they are cheaper and have a decent self-cleaning function.

 

 

15 hours ago, Madsing said:

 

Printing on photo paper gives really good results. Contrary to laser printers, colors are really saturated. I have tried printing on a transparency sheet with a color laser printer before and was disappointed by the result.

 

This decides it for me. Saturated colors are what I want. Mediocre quality transparencies is a deal-breaker for me, for laser printers.

 

[cteno4]

7 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

After thinking about this for a day, I'll probably hold off for now. I'll probably get it eventually, but I think I'll have to complete a few more buildings that I'm happy with before I feel I deserve it. In the meantime I'm going to draw very fine pencil lines and place the blade on the lines. That should make up for any play in the hinge.

Oh but having the nicer tool you will do better work! It is the kind of tool that will probably be working past my time on this planet! 
 

way back at the aquarium I had to do a large 3/4” scale model of a proposed greenhouse to be added. first drawings was one with many smaller panes but some worried about the look of it on the industrial looking aquarium design. So I had to create two model versions one large and one small pane to view on the massive full aquarium model. I used 3/64” plex and 1/16” pin tape (scale to the mullions). I cross crossed all the pin tape (done off of a pattern I drafted up to align all the pin tape) and then went back with a razor and chopped the pin tape on either side of the overlaps and pulled off the overlapping bit. It amazingly looked fantastic. I screwed a few crossovers up cutting too wide, but all I had to do was yank that segment off and do it again. I ended up with a very large pile of 1/16” squares of pin tape. It went pretty fast for being a tedious job…

 

Large pane won.

 

jeff

[Madsing]

6 hours ago, gavino200 said:

Is that one where you buy ink in bottles and fill the tanks when needed? Rather than buying new cartridges? I've heard they are cheaper and have a decent self-cleaning function.

Yes, both statements are correct. Mine is the Epson L4160 but I am not sure it's available in the US and there are newer models anyway. A bottle of ink costs less than $10 and the bottles have a cap that safely locks to the ink tank of the printer, avoiding spillage. The self cleaning function works well too. I have set a reminder in my calendar. Every Saturday at 9am I print the color test sheet (nozzle check function). If it's not perfect, I run the corresponding cleaning function (there is head cleaning, power cleaning, print head alignment, ...)

[gavino200]

That's a very nice printer. I'm thinking of a simpler one. The Eco Tank ET-2800 versus a basic HP. I like your calendar notification idea. I sit down every Sunday evening to look over my work cases for the week. I think I'll make a habit of printing a test sheet at that time.

 

Can I ask you and @cteno4 for your experience on paper, decals, and transparency. I'm looking at YouTube videos and retail outlets. It seems that photo paper comes in various qualities, thickness, finishes and sizes. What have you guys found useful for what purposes. Is there any advantage to buying full size paper? I'll be printing tiny things for N scale.

 

Premium vs ultra premium

High gloss, gloss, matte

Size 8.5x11 vs 4x6

 

Same question for transparencies, sticky paper, decals (is that the same as transparancy?)

 

Are there other types of sheets/paper that I haven't mentioned that I should know about for modeling?

[cteno4]

It’s been a while since I purchased inkjet papers, so not really sure which brands they are, I just have them in a paper organizer in the drawer. I know some are HP and epson and some are generic, never found any particularly better than others and I’m sure they don’t stay the same with manufacturing over the years as well. I also have a plastic photo paper that’s been useful for some things. Not quite as crisp color as I remember but it bends well and done not crease or kink easily. 
 

I usually don’t use the sticker backed stuff for modeling as I’m never sure how well the adhesive will work on the substrates and time. I generally use some PVA glue or transfer adhesive for mounting stuff.  Transfer adhesive is basically just tape adhesive without a membrane. You peel it off on a backing like double stick tape and apply then pull off the backing and only adhesive is left. Makes for a very thin adhesive layer as opposed to double sided tape. It’s very sticky stuff and stays stuck. They use it for applying some car details.

 

I mostly use matte paper, I have a small amount of semi gloss and gloss but seldom use it. I also have a few different weights. Usually use thinner the smaller the thing I’m printing for modeling.

 

on size I buy 8.5x11 and cut down as needed. When printing small bits I will put the item into the top of the file so that it prints at the top and trim off the bit and refeed the remaining. Last 4” I can flip and reuse the other direction. 
 

cheers

 

jeff

[gavino200]

A small bit of progress today.

 

I made a cardboard template for the building floors. It's slightly oversized so I can file the floors down to the exact size.

 

I also decided on the "elevator shaft" location that will hide the LED wires, and moved the hole in the base to also be hidden. I'll level this with putty/sandpaper/painting.

 

Before I decided to open up the front of the building I made a ceiling piece fore the lobby and light-proofed it. I'm going to cut out the contour where it sits on the inside ledge, so that I can lower the floor to a reasonable level.

 

Next up I'll make the floor pieces and elevator shaft. But I also have to research what Japanese office buildings look like inside. I really don't know.

 

 This is the first floor piece. Luckily it already has the indentation "marked" as I did the lobby light-proofing with the floor in place.

 

 

First floor, upper floor template, and adjusted base (still needs levelling)

 

 

First coat of white over black. Honestly, I'm not sure this is necessary as the plastic is pretty thick. But I really hate glowing buildings, so I decided not to risk it.

 

[Madsing]

On 12/31/2021 at 10:18 AM, gavino200 said:

Can I ask you and @cteno4 for your experience on paper, decals, and transparency. I'm looking at YouTube videos and retail outlets. It seems that photo paper comes in various qualities, thickness, finishes and sizes. What have you guys found useful for what purposes. Is there any advantage to buying full size paper? I'll be printing tiny things for N scale.

I don't have much to add to Jeff's reply.

- For printing signs and similar things (such as vending machines), I use A4 Glossy Photo Paper. It's quite thick and does not bend easily, so I often cut it at the edges. If necessary (for railroad signs for example) I apply a coat (or more) of Testors Dull Clear Coat. I am still using a pack purchased years ago (the brand is Mitsubishi Chemical, they don't make these anymore)

- For decals, I use https://www.hiqparts.com/products/detail/4775 and https://www.hiqparts.com/products/detail/4776, purchased from a local hobby shop. They work very well. With inkjet, it's vital to coat (several times) the decal right after printing so that the ink does not dissolve in the water (which is not necessary with laser printers)

- I also have a pack of HP Premium Inkjet Paper. It's very light (98g/m2). I use it for printing interior details such as pavements...

[gavino200]

I did a bit more work on this today. It took a few coats of white over the last week to make the building interior white again. Fortunately, I found some styrene that I had previously light proofed to make the floors out of. I cut a couple of pieces for the "elevator shaft" that will hide the wires.

 

Next step will be to assemble the shaft and to put the pieces together provisionally as a mock-up, so that I can measure the internal wall height that I'll need. After that I'll start working out how to design and print colored paper for the walls and floors. My color printer just arrived, so this will be it's maiden project.

 

I still have no idea how I'm going to make windows and/or window frames, but I'm taking it step by step. Unfortunately, I forgot to take into account the ground floor back-door when choosing my "elevator shaft" size and location. It's likely I'll have to black them out.

 

 

The small window next to the door, and one of the door windows will have to be blacked out unless I taper the bottom of the shaft.

 

 

My color ink-jet printer. Arrived this week. Still unopened.

 

[Cat]

I've recently been laying out signage for several buildings that are in the works.
 
I gave up on keeping a home printer many years ago as the ink was too expensive and dried out before using it all, grr.  What I do now is take a thumb drive to Staples and use the copier/printers there.  Super crisp and deep saturation.   

I just use regular paper and glue in place.  Super glue on the back of the sign, very carefully line up using grip to release tweezers before pressing into place.

[Cat]

Staples run today.  Since they don't charge for ink by volume, I throw in a bunch of extras of everything so I don't have to worry about slip-ups when cutting.  And legal size is the same cost as letter.

[Madsing]

@Cat What kind of paper is that? I would really be interested in comparing the print quality / resolution of a "professional" printer vs a "home" printer (like the Epson @gavino200 has just purchased, or mine). If you agree, I could prepare a PDF with small characters. What do you think?

[Cat]

8 hours ago, Madsing said:

@Cat What kind of paper is that? I would really be interested in comparing the print quality / resolution of a "professional" printer vs a "home" printer (like the Epson @gavino200 has just purchased, or mine). If you agree, I could prepare a PDF with small characters. What do you think?

Staples' self-serve machines default to a 28 lb paper which this is.  They also have an economy 24 lb choice.
 
The printing resolution in colour or black & white is much better than whatever printer Roxanne has in her office at work.

[cteno4]

Very good point you can do economy by filling he sheet! Exactly what I don’t do at home to save ink! Nice you can do legal. Is it a photo paper or just a clay impregnated inkjet paper? Way back kinks use to let you use your own paper but I expect that doesn’t happen at staples.

 

i may have to try our staples, especially if I can’t get the magenta flowing, reminds me I need to work on that today while paying bills.

 

jeff