There is a prototype for everything... (Japan Rail)

[GDorsett]

You can't pull EMUs with a locomotive!

 

So, it seems the EMUs are being moved like this because there is no catenary at the inspection point. I assume they will switch out the locomotive.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by GDorsett

[railsquid]

12 minutes ago, GDorsett said:

You can't pull EMUs with a locomotive!

 

 

Sure you can, you may need a barrier wagon to interface the different couplings though.

 

Quote

So, it seems the EMUs are being moved like this because there is no catenary at the inspection point. I assume they will switch out the locomotive.

 

More precisely, the text says there's no catenary between the Daiyūzan Line and the JR line at Odawara station, where the transfer occurs, so the wagons are used to add length to the formation so the JR locomotive can retrieve the EMU without running into the dead section itself.

Wamus since replaced by Kokis, apparently.

[GDorsett]

Ah, okay. Spacer cars.

Suddenly it makes a lot of sense.

Use em in models as well since my engines can't go onto the piers of the club layout. Too big.

[Suica]

When you can't decide which colour you like best

 

[serotta1972]

Oooh, I like them rainbow formations! Gotta do that one of these days, I think I have the rolling stock for it.

[JR 500系]

15 hours ago, Suica said:

When you can't decide which colour you like best

 

 

Are those real photos or have they been photoshopped? Mighty interesting formations! 

 

* strange when you click on the twitter link there is a 'non-train' related photo in there that is not so 'family-friendly'...  😛

[GDorsett]

KiHa 58 pair with an OHaFu 13 squished in the middle...

 

[kvp]

58 minutes ago, GDorsett said:

KiHa 58 pair with an OHaFu 13 squished in the middle...

If only the first unit is pulling, then it's simple to do this, but that would be rather weak on a hilly track. If both motor cars are working, then the control cable must be pulled through under the the middle trailer as the air hoses and the couplers are otherwise compatible. In theory one motor car should be able to move itself and one extra trailer on level tracks and half of a trailer on hilly tracks.

[GDorsett]

That's why it's odd.

 

Guess that means the KiHa is sort of like the Japanese version of the North American Budd RDC?

[Kiha66]

2 hours ago, GDorsett said:

Guess that means the KiHa is sort of like the Japanese version of the North American Budd RDC?

 

More the other way around, Japan was building DMUs decades before budd had the "idea" for the RDC.  For example the kiha 07 series started operation in 1934, while the RDC didnt start production till 1949.  A few smaller lines even used kihas as locomotives, the Shimabara Railway used theirs as motive power for small (2-3 car) mixed trains and had some unpowered coaches they regularly would put behind a kiha.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Kiha66

[GDorsett]

Didn't realise they'd been doing it that long...and actually pulled trains. Good to know, thank you!

[kvp]

1 hour ago, Kiha66 said:

 

More the other way around, Japan was building DMUs decades before budd had the "idea" for the RDC.  For example the kiha 07 series started operation in 1934, while the RDC didnt start production till 1949.  A few smaller lines even used kihas as locomotives, the Shimabara Railway used theirs as motive power for small (2-3 car) mixed trains and had some unpowered coaches they regularly would put behind a kiha.

Yes, the whole DMU or first just petrol railcar idea was started by the french. In Hungary it started when the DSA (southern railway) bought a few De Dillion Buton railcars in the 1910ies. Then the Ganz company copied the  idea and flooded the MAV (national railway) branchlines with DMUs. The most common types were classified as tractor motor railcars, so they could pull any kind of rolling stock, including freight. Japan started early too with companies like Niigata engineering (nowdays Niigata Transys) building railcars around WW1. In Hungary the idea was expanded after WW2 by standardizing the control cable and adding a through line to almost everything that could be used in a passenger train. This meant the same standard stock could be used for push pull steam trains, diesels, electrics and various diesel and electric multiple units, including a pretty nice mix and match for control cars or having power units on both ends or mid train. (with the funny feature that some cab car controls operated completly different things based on the power units in the train) JNR did this to a limited extent with EMU cars and as diesel push pull sets for a few joyful trains later under the JRs. There were no dedicated DMU trailers in the JNR era though, thanks to the hilly nature of Japan, so most DMU cars were 4 axle and self propelled (either B-2 or dual motor B-B) but the 1 DMU, 1/2 trailer rule was used with some 2 axle sightseeing trailers, even in (afaik) B-2+2+2+2-B configuration with rebuilt 2 axle freight cars between two KiHa-s.

 

Imho Budd sold the stainless steel body technology to Japan and got the DMU idea in exchange around the same time. Nowdays we know that multiple units are a good idea but in the US the double locomomotive idea is still strong. The Acela is just Alsthom TGV locomotives on both ends, while the new Brightliner is also just two Siemens Hercules variants and a few standard trailers between them. Not to mention the cabbage car based push-pull sets. Most new american EMU sets are japanese (imho that's actually good).

[GDorsett]

When you sau "rebuilt freight cars", what do you mean by that? Were they rebuilt into passenger or rebuilt to accommodate MU lines and passenger accomidation lines?

[kvp]

2 hours ago, GDorsett said:

When you sau "rebuilt freight cars", what do you mean by that? Were they rebuilt into passenger or rebuilt to accommodate MU lines and passenger accomidation lines?

Rebuilt into open side passenger cars with roofs, DMU cabling and gangway connections added. I don't remember the name of the service though.

 

[nah00]

Cannot unsee smiling WaMu.

[Davo Dentetsu]

On 8/13/2018 at 10:48 PM, railsquid said:

 

Sure you can, you may need a barrier wagon to interface the different couplings though.

It can actually be done.  The key is any converter that involves hook couplings should have a plate on top so it can sit on top when stationary.  I made a Rapido to Kato EMU coupler this way.

[GDorsett]

So it can sit on top?

[kvp]

33 minutes ago, GDorsett said:

So it can sit on top?

I think he meant a bit of a top cover plate to keep the adapter level with the rapido head. Essentially a piece of styrene with a rapido and a Kato coupler glued to the bottom. The rapido side is held up by the rapido coupler on the connected car, while the Kato side is held up by the Kato coupler.

 

On the other hand, Tomix makes official TN to rapido adapters, so you just pop them onto the TN head like on the prototype.

[GDorsett]

Ah, okay.

[railsquid]

A 4-car Chuo-Sobu line 231-0 series formation at Mitaka:

 

Chuo-Sobu line partial formation by Rail Squid, on Flickr

 

This is set B31, which apparently was sent up to Akita in March for presumed refurbishment/conversion to another line, but these 4 cars were sent back down at the end of July and it seems to be haunting the Tokyo area for reasons unknown. Note it still has the "6 door" sticker.

[katoftw]

Sure it is not been a conversion to a 3000 sub series of Kawagoe Line now?  Just hasn't had a livery change yet?

[railsquid]

I assumed when I saw it that it was a formation about to be sent away for conversion/refurbishment.

 

This report from the end of July: https://railf.jp/news/2018/07/28/202500.html says it doesn't have any obvious external changes, and you'd think they'd at least change the formation number if it had been converted.

[kvp]

2 hours ago, railsquid said:

I assumed when I saw it that it was a formation about to be sent away for conversion/refurbishment.

This report from the end of July: https://railf.jp/news/2018/07/28/202500.html says it doesn't have any obvious external changes, and you'd think they'd at least change the formation number if it had been converted.

It could be a training set or still waiting for the rest of its cars to arrive. Is there a mapping of cars to rebuilt sets and any info what happens with the leftover ones?

[railsquid]

On 8/20/2018 at 6:04 PM, kvp said:

It could be a training set or still waiting for the rest of its cars to arrive. Is there a mapping of cars to rebuilt sets and any info what happens with the leftover ones?

 

AFAIK not officially, though usually people report changes on blogs, Twitter etc.; this page has a fairly comprehensive overview: http://bosoview.sakura.ne.jp/jr/soubul/soubu_local.html but it's not up-to-date for the B31 set in question.

[JR 500系]

When you want to run your Kiha-120s on the Sanko Line but cant decide which livery to run: