Gerryo's Largest N Layout

[velotrain]

I was largely posting that as an example of exceptional modeling, not necessarily how to display large numbers of fishing boats out of the water.  It looks to be more of a boat repair yard, vs. a storage yard.  As is often the case, looking for photos of proto scenes similar to what you wish to model might be the best approach.

 

I know that pleasure boats are often removed from the water in winter (including here in Boston), but believe that even in cold regions fishing boats stay in as they're usually working year-round.  Also - while fresh water easily freezes, we're talking salt water here.  Your plans seem to change frequently, but at one point you had indicated an interest in a fishing harbor scene, and said you already had some structures for it.  Jeff pointed out that marine railways were not actually related/connected to railroads, so you may have lost interest in this aspect of the proposed layout.

 

So - you may need to decide if you want 20-30 Canadian fresh water pleasure boats out of the water, or a lesser number of Japanese fishing boats in the water. 

The links I gave suggest how a Japanese fishing boat repair yard scene could be modeled, although it would obviously be less detailed in N scale.

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

This is done these days with sling cranes. They are like the mobile container cranes. They just pick up the post out of the water by running out on a special pier and the driving it where you want to plop it on chalks or a small mobile cart that can be rolled around with a truck. Smaller boats in cold weather areas are stored in warehouses a lot of time. Many stack them 5 high in big racks and various systems to get them in there and hold them. These are usually pleasure boats stored away for the winter. Even smaller commercial boats are usually not warehoused, they are kept working as much as possible. Usually not taken far from the water as transport is not easy. 

 

http://wisehandling.com/Images/MH/Boat Hoist2.jpg

 

but I don't think you see a lot of storage of fishing boats in japan and the fishing boats are ususally out working most areas year round.

 

a lot of boat work out of water for work boats is short term so a small port may only have slots for a few boats to be worked on at a time, its the pleasure boats that tend to be kept out of the water longer for more detailed, cosmetic, and leisurely repairs. Work boats only make money when they are working! So out of water time is as fast as possible so more turnaround.

 

so if you want a larger boat yard then just make A little mobile sling crane and pier and have an open yard it can roll into to plop boats on chalks. You can do this in minimal space.

 

the Tomytec scene is classic for a small port. One shop building where you have things like overhead winches to pull engines and such and other area to do tidal haul outs for short hull repairs or defouling and  painting. Cheap and quick and little resources needed. Boat yard and sling crane gets more expensive and usually in larger commercial port. I'd suggest using the space to squeeze in a bit more of a small harbor scene with off loading wharf, manybe a small pier for smaller boats and such. You see this a lot around coastal Japan and then apply the usual model scene compression we need to do...

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[gerryo]

 

These are 3 of the scenes I will be using for my fishing village.  Along with another Tomytec piece and boats by Tomytec and Greenmax.  These three add up to 520mm in length and 130mm deep.  A good start I think, and I have had these in mind since I bought them July 15, 2015.  

 

Gerry

[cteno4]

Yep these fit in a nice little area. Little breakwater also adds to it and can be used as a pier as well.

 

also they tend to moor the small fishing boats stern in and pack them together, so you can fit a number of boats in this way off the breakwater/jetty.

 

jeff

[gerryo]

 

As you can see, and apparently expected, I have made a few changes.  The waterfront is still there, along with the viaduct and it's accompanying large station.  I got rid of the most controversial parts and added some new ones.

 

Where I have the most problems is around the central part, where it is impossible to get small railroads into because of other immoveable objects.  Suggestions around this would be appreciated.  

 

I want to keep the streetscaping feature because I already have most of it and will expand it to make a street all the way around.  After all, what is a city without streets?  Which are where all those cars are supposed to drive.

 

Gerry  

 

[cteno4]

Gerry, 

 

looks good, more room for scenery.

 

when you say streetscape and those rectangles are they kato streetplates? If so beware the kato street plates can take up a lot of room. Streets done to full prototype can really gobble up room and are something that folks will compress some to fit more into a limited layout space.

 

luckily it's easy to play with this by just doing either simple printouts of street/sidewalks or cut out bits of construction paper to see what you will be happy with on looks vs space. It's an odd thing of perspective but in our minds eye we don't think streets take up all that much visual room because we normally view them at very oblique angles in real life. But when you view them from greater distances and height you start to see they take up a lot of space visually and this view is how we usually look at layouts. So we usually look at layouts in not the way we have them in our minds eye, thus doing some compression on the streets actually can help with your minds eye perception. Some want things to prototypical dimensions and that's cool, but it does take more space and not quite look right to the minds eye at the usually layout viewing angles.

 

its something to play with on the table with some paper, vehicles and buildings and translate that to the software plan.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[gerryo]

I guess I was doing mine the easy way. and thought that by using Kato plates throughout would keep some perspective.  That is why I've even thought of doing away with the viaduct, and allowing more space for the city scene.  Some things are impossible to fit the perspective of a 1250x3000mm layout.  A viaduct, in most cities, goes strait thru, no curves like that in a city.  The Kato plates also have spaces for buildings, like with Unitram but give a larger perspective, therefor taking up more room.  The problem with this is how small is the layout.  I gave up the container port because of the size drawback.  How far do we go and keep some scale adherence?  

 

So enough small talk.  The question was how do I deal with what is there, or get rid of unnecessary factors?  

 

With Any Rail I can do copy-as, and get a copy of my plan and can then make changes at random so can try ideas, like deleting the viaduct loops and have it run thru and be just a static display.  I'll try that.  What else would you suggest?

 

Gerry 

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

unless you are totally wedded to the kato plates i would look at just playing with doing your own. Being perfect to real life specs is totally up to you. We already compromise a lot with track radius for size sake. Usually it's just squishing the width of sidewalks and lanes to get a bit more room to cram a bit more in. Also by doing your own streets you have more flexibilty to fit your structures of different sizes in and work around the tracks more than with the road plates. Sometimes just putting a 15 degree kink in the road at some point can help fit things in better and make it not seem like a total parallel scene. Stuff like this is very hard to do in 2d, really requires just placing things and playing and seeing how it looks to you from your usual views. What looks great in 2d looking straight down can look awful at an oblique viewing angle in 3d.

 

This is always my approach to just make things look as best as possible to the minds eye from the usual viewing points/perspectives and fudge where necessary, within limits, with scale and prototype specs to optimize this. Others find it more important to do everything as close to prototype specs as possible for their happiness. Really is what is most important to you. I just mentioned the street stuff as I did not realize how big visually the kato street plates could be until I saw a few of our clubmembers use them.

 

layouts are all about tradeoffs and compromises. Just have to find those which make you happiest.

 

this is why I always preach the plop some track, buildings, vehicles and paper streets down and play some as it can help you find what's most important to you in the way you do stuff like this. You don't have to do the whole thing just a bit of it to get ideas and look at it and fiddle with it some. Trying to do all the planning in 2d and even 3d programs can be dangerous. They work best when you go back and forth with some real world modeling.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[gerryo]

 

As you can see, I have gone back a couple of weeks to a very busy plan which might be good - or not - but most things fit and work.  Just a couple of changes.  The fishing port changed ends and the viaduct is less skewed.

 

I have to call the planning process complete because my tables will soon be here and I need to get working on this.  It's only been three years in the making, so here it is.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

Is there a track piece made by either kato or tomy that is used to connect Fine Track to Unitrack?  And if so where would I find it?

Gerry

[katoftw]

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10003037

[gerryo]

Thanx, katoftw.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

 

This plan flips the whole thing over and adds the pending Tomix Yard and Extension, if it will fit in the center.  This is why I wanted the adaptor track, and am now wondering if it will work.

 

With isolators at the adaptor track and a Tomix power supply to run the yard, I cant see where there would be any problem. Please offer corrections if I am wrong. 

[katoftw]

Where do roads or buildings or scenery go?

[gerryo]

Hi katoftw.  In my post of Nov, 26 I had plenty of plans for roads, scenery, people, etc. and it was indicated that there was too much space taken up by them.  I will just have to do what I want and not ask for suggestions.  

Anyway.

I liked my streetscaped plan and yes, those kato plates take up room, and yes they are expensive, but they do what they were planned to do.  Maybe Unitram is the answer for the center portion.  And yes, I have lots of that too.  It is a good way to do a downtown set with streets all around.

 

I have to use up some of the items I have purchased over the years since I have become interested in Japan models.  Iplay with another plan.

Gerry 

[gerryo]

 

 

This is the plan I will be building to for my N Layout.  Other factors may be added as building happens.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

In 1 - that's ONE - of about 150 drawings and sketches of N scale and Z scale plans drawn using AnyRail, the track connection points do not show the little circles which indicate that the track is connected.  They were there when I first done the drawing, but I must have done something or pushed the wrong button sometime and wiped them out.  

 

Does anyone know how to correct this?  What can I do to get them back?

When I start a new sketch they are there automatically.  Please help !!!

 

No, I lied, they are not there automatically.  

 

Gerry

Edited January 8, 2018 by gerryo
I didn't check my facts.

[gerryo]

OK.  I fixed it.  I had taken the connection point to 0.  It needs to be large enough to see.

 

gerryo 

[gerryo]

I have been thinking------,  OK not a good time for that.  

 

Seriously thinking of not doing N scale.  My very first train locomotive, many years ago,was N, and now am thinking of giving it up totally.  I received the tables the other day, and they are all set up in the living room ready.  But for what?  N scale or Z?  This would be my only N but would be my 3rd Z.

 

What to do?

Gerry