Gerryo's Largest N Layout

[gerryo]

I should never be left alone with a working computer.  I design model train layouts.  That can't be helped.

 

This new one incorporates a lot of what I did not build before.  But has a little of everything - so far.  I still can't build it but will seriously plan for it to be the last.  It now seems to me that it might be best to put some of all my plans, and some of my many Japan models to some use.

 

The attached pic. has a Viaduct, a double track commuter line, a bus line across the bottom, some space for buildings, a ready made mountain in the top right hand corner, and the simplest of Unitram plans in the centre.  I'm not too sure about the Unitram.  I toyed with using a long oval for a tram line with Wide Tram Track, which I have plenty of, but I also have lots of Unitram, and it is then simple to do a city scene.  Not much room for Yard space, but can still show off some trains.  If I use the Unitram there will not be room for a castle.

 

The size is another concern.  It is 8 feet long by 5 feet wide.  I can reach across 2 1/2 feet easily enough so width is not a problem but length might be.  I still don't know where I will be living, but since my wife has passed, I will be making my living room my train room.  I have decided that my "living" will still be model trains so that's where they will be. 

 

Any and all comments would be appreciated.

 

gerryo

 

 

 

[katoftw]

It the bottom is the front of the layout. The elevated station will block alot of view.

 

Another thing you may want to consider is making the train section 4x8 and a detactable front 1x8 city and bus section. Allows you easier access for your mobility issues.

Edited July 5, 2017 by katoftw

[velotrain]

Does this mean that you no longer plan to built the N and Z layouts that you had ordered baseboards for?

[gerryo]

Charles-    I will be building the Cortina Z layout, and the T-Track-Z modules, but not the Baden-Baden N layout.  Way too expensive when you add in the shipping.  This one and the Z scale will be more than enough.

 

Katoftw -    Yes, the bottom is the front of one side.  No matter where I put the elevated station it will block some view.  The only way around the view is to bring the viaduct down to ground level on one side.  This may be hard to do because the via. goes over the mountain area so must be raised there.  That 2 ft. x 2 ft. in the upper right corner is all mountain with the ground level double thru a tunnel and the via. over the top.  I had the tram line thru the tunnel as well but .  Another way would be to delete the mountain, or make it much smaller.

 

Since I already have most all the pieces for the streetscape and the bus roads I want to use them.  The front seems like the best place.  I'll have to think on that section being separate.  Thanx for the idea.

 

gerryo  

Edited July 5, 2017 by gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerryo,

 

Again, very sorry about your wife passing. My deepest condolences. Glad to see you back here and doing some trains, that is always good therapy.

 

Kato has a good point that the width is an issue. i have very long arms and over about 2' it really starts to get hard. i can reach out to 3' and more but its really hard to do much at deeper depths.

 

other thing to make sure of if its deeper is that you need to make sure it can support some of your weight as when you reach out to 2-2.5' you need to both stabilize yourself and with longer sessions support yourself some

 

maybe make the city section just a bit wider sot he whole bus loop can be a separate section that can pull away. Im a very big fan of making this kind of layout on wheels to be able to move it when needed. in this case the main train layout could be stationary and just the like 16-18" w x 8' long bus loop on some sort of cabinets with wheels or legs with wheels. works well here as you dont have track spanning the two layouts. 

 

best wishes,

 

jeff

[gerryo]

 

You are probably right when you say that plan is too big.  So I went looking for something different.

 

On page 1 of the 2014 Kato catalogue there is a layout idea that has some viaduct, some ground level, so I tried to copy it.  My plan is still 5 feet wide by 8 feet long, and has trams and buses.  The viaduct goes thru the mountain tunnel, as well as a tram line.  I can't make up my mind whether to use the Unitram city center, or to have more bus roads downtown.  Either way, I get to keep the castle idea along with the city.  I would really like your opinions on this, although I think I prefer the Bus City Layout best as it has both buses and trams downtown.

 

Gerry

 

 

[katoftw]

I don't think the ramps will work on the new designed with what you have under them.

[gerryo]

Hi Kato.  I can't figure out what you mean.

 

Gerry

[katoftw]

Sorry i meant to type that they wont work. You need six pieces of S246 or R315 before you get to max height.

[velotrain]

 

I had a related question.  I was wondering how the viaduct track not in the tunnel, was going to cross the tram tracks and then lose enough elevation to pass under the curved viaduct track. 

 

I did consider one possibility - that it stays at roughly the same level and the curved viaduct track is actually at viaduct height plus some?

 

OR - the tunnel track is at about table-top height, and is rising after the tunnel to create enough clearance by where it crosses the other track?

 

[gerryo]

 

You are both right.  My mistake was doing the viaduct track before the ground level one coming out of the tunnel.  This has been corrected in the attached pics.

 

Gerry

[velotrain]

Actually, Gerry - I wasn't detecting the viaduct edges on the plan.

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

Kato is correct your viaduct inclines are pretty tight. The SW incline from the yard points to where it has to pass over ground double track is only about 5 248 sections. Looks like about 6 if you start the center incline descending just afte going over the tram track down to go under the double viaduct.

 

Kato premade double viaduct incline piers use 6 sections is what the incline set uses for a 3.3% grade (well technically 7 if you use their flat to incline transition piece for a 2.8% grade) or the other set is 10 pieces for a 2% grade. Also because of your mix of viaduct track lengths you are going to have to make your own piers (or shim and trim the kato ones) to make a consistent grade as the premade piers assume you are using all full double viaduct curves or 248 straights to get a consistent slope.

 

Could raise the yard area some so the SW incline does not have as much rise to do. The have a shallow incline thru the mountain in the E to get up to the elevated yard. This would put the upper viaduct higher in the NW crossing higher so the lower track could be finishing its decline when it goes under the crossing viaduct

 

Getting an over and under in this size space does make it tough. We had a club member who did a lot of these on his layout (he kept changing it all the time) that was about 4x8 (later 10x4). I ended up making him 4 sets of wooden riser piers that looked like the kato cast Y piers that were like 3 or 4mm increments so he could get his slopes as straight as possible. But even then he sometimes has to put the piers in non track joints or shim some of them. Always took some fiddling to get the inclines working right for his trains. When he use to run them at 3% or more grades his engines in his mus would howl and he had a number of engines that really ended up sounding horrid as when I cleaned a few they were full of muck, I think half of which was just worn plastic from inside the engines as he kept his place very clean. A few finally fried the motor and he had a few sheared and stripped driveshafts as well. He was deaf so he never heard how the engines howled to make it up his steeper inclines, especially when he ran them fast.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited July 10, 2017 by cteno4

[gerryo]

 

Ok, so let's try something 10 ft. long by 5 ft. wide.  Still a double over and under, still has the mountain in the corner with  a single track viaduct to up and over the mountain.  I don't like this track to go all the way around the layout but it's harder to get it thru the other mess of track.

 

Lots of run up with the viaducts so should be enough.  Plenty of space for small stations along the way.  Less squared space for city scenes, so has to be small settlements.

 

Opinions please.  The title shd. read 10 x 5 ft.

 

Gerry

Edited July 10, 2017 by gerryo

[cteno4]

uh oh its growing! need to leave room to have a living room!

 

is that the single line crossing the double track line? if so then you will really have issues running 3 trains at once and no collisions. i cant quite suss whats going over what easily here.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[gerryo]

 

OK.  So that was ridiculous.  Back to 8 ft. 

 

I think the viaduct slopes can be squeezed into this and I've done away with the double crossing.  Still can only run 2 trains at a time but I can't have everything.  Maybe I can squeeze in a bus road somewhere?

 

Gerry

 

 

[cteno4]

Yes it's tough to get over and under with the double viaduct. Your center incline has a length of 5.5 248 section so will be a bit steep at like 3.7%. The single track at the top going under the viaduct is also going under the decline there about 1 section it so will be low clearances (i.e. Pantograph doen for sure).

 

You might buy yourself more length in the inclines if you add a 248 to the top incline and lower center elevated. This bumps the ground track on the left over to the left. Could even move it all the way to the outside of the elevated curve on the left there (shorten it 128 to the right for extra space for the ground to easily run along the left edge of layout there).

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

It's foreign territory for me, but I think you could do the 5' viaduct layout by lengthening the ramps.  There seems to be room for this at both ends, but you may need to space the supports in an unorthodox manner if you can't figure out a way to only use "full" ramp track sections.  The more recent plans seem like steps backward.

[gerryo]

 

I have used both your suggestions on this one.  I have also added a scenic route all the way around the layout, and over the center of the mountain.  This mountain is fairly large - 2 ft. sq.- and is preformed Noch HO scale.  The tunnel mouths are very large so will need work.  The track shown in place is N scale Kato 315 mm R.  This puts it a little bit higher than normal for the viaduct but can be compensated for with abt. 1/2 inch bases on the slope piers.

 

There is no way to do a shorter run for this mountain line, and be able to cross the other double viaduct. 

 

Gerry

[cteno4]

Yeah now you have at least 6 sections on each incline for the double viaduct lines. Outside will work well as the double viaduct will help obscure view that it's just a loop and give nice train close ups.

 

I take it that inner loop is a bus loop? It intersects your incline half way thru so there may not be enough clearance at 1", but that may just squeak thru. The crossover lines also go thru at like 20-30% down your inclines, so tight clearance maybe there as well.

 

If you have a pile of track already you might play with the over and under or one close to it to see how well it runs for you with the trains you have you plan to use on it.

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

 

I've done a bit of tweaking and mending, but I think this is finished.  There are always things that you find that don't work when you are building so some things have to change.  But  "That's All Folks".  Have to set it aside and get on with the moving process.

 

But I'll be back.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

 

Ok, so I couldn't leave it alone.

 

There is a serious lack of space for a yard on this layout so I done something about it.  In another blog Inobu talked about a helix so I designed a yard under the layout, and used his idea.  It seems to work.

 

Maybe I don't need an 8 ft. long yard.

 

Gerry 

[keiichi77]

Every train I own could fit on those sidings.  ;)

[gerryo]

Yes, I know.  I have a few too.  Not that many, but I'm sure my stable will grow.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

 

I've made a few small changes and a few larger ones.  Better under layout yard , and some layout changes to allow easier movement of trains.  I think I can now move a train from anywhere to anywhere else on the layout by doing some driving.  About the only thing I can't do is turn a train around without going thru the yard.

 

The bus road needs some tweaking but that can wait to the last as it depends on everything else.

 

Gerry