Tomix controllers!

[NXCALE]

Hi all, my Tomix 5517 arrived this week.

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[cteno4]

nxscale,

 

cool, thanks for the review! great info. did you make the chart or did tomix?

 

yes they are different styles of controls so not meant to function quite the same. the gearing of the 5512 and braking is like older trains and a different style of running, its much more hands on. i will probably eventually get the 5512, but for now the 5517 looks to be a fun way to do some simple train control w/o having to pay as much attention to it as you need to on the 5512. 

 

looking forward to getting mine to play with!

 

Thanks again for the first look! It will be interesting to hear how you take to it with time as well as it is a paradigm shift doing this sort of more cab like running than just doing the speed knob! i remember i hated momentum and brake on my old MRC walkaround i got when i was a kid for the first month. i had saved up for it for a long time and the thought man i had blown it. but after getting more and more use to it i warmed to it and really enjoyed it then!

 

jeff

[miyakoji]

nxscale, thanks for the info.  I wondered too where you got the graph.  The one thing I'm surprised at is the behavior of the speed settings.  I assumed that for each notch it would accelerate to a given speed and then hold there.  I wonder if it would have been more expensive to implement that.

[miyakoji]

Ah, I see that the graph is in the instruction manual, visible 1/3rd the way down this page: http://fly-up-fairy.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2015/12/n-du101cl-9ab8.html

[katoftw]

nxscale, thanks for the info.  I wondered too where you got the graph.  The one thing I'm surprised at is the behavior of the speed settings.  I assumed that for each notch it would accelerate to a given speed and then hold there.  I wonder if it would have been more expensive to implement that.

Each notch is for acceleration and deceleration, just like a real train.  Then you flick it back to the middle notch to hold said current speed.

 

It would have been much cheaper and easier to make each notch a single speed.  All that it is some resistors.  Exactly the same has the 12V fan/air-con  in your car. Off = 0V 1 = 3V, 2 = 6V, 3 = 9V and 4 = 12V etc.

 

The 5517 is a little more complex than that.  Each notch controls the voltage from 0 up to 12V and how quickly it will go from 0V to 12V.  First notch might take 3 seconds, second notch might take 6 seconds, third notch 9 seconds.  The control of this is linear, and therefore requires a more complex system to do so.  Then the system has to have the ability to hold whatever voltage it is currently at once you flick it back to middle/neutral.

[miyakoji]

I thought 5512's behavior replicates the real thing accurately; for example that notch 1 would accelerate at 2.5km/h/s to say 15km/h and stay there.  Notch 2 would accelerate at 2.5km/h/s to 30km/h and then stay at that speed, etc.

Edited January 9, 2016 by miyakoji

[katoftw]

5512 does do that. As per nxcale's referenced graphs from Tomix.

 

Sorry I thought you were refering to the newer 5517.

[NXCALE]

did you make the chart or did tomix?

 

Ah, I see that the graph is in the instruction manual, visible 1/3rd the way down this page: http://fly-up-fairy.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2015/12/n-du101cl-9ab8.html

 

Hi all, thanks for the comments.

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[katoftw]

I believe that there are other factors that affect the controller’s performance like type of powered car/s, how clean/dirt are the pick-up wheels/tracks, gradients and type of train formation is running to name some.

Yeah lots of little factors effect our little trains.  All the same factors as if they were 1:1.  Just some like wind and weight might not be as much of a factor.

[kvp]

Actually it's based on a digital counter that controls the pulse width modulation generator.

The steps are the following:

set to 0 (emergency brake)

-3

-2

-1

0

+1

+2

+3

 

The acceleration potmeter (if present) sets the time interval between each update. The pwm range can be as low as 14 or 26 steps (dcc basic), 127 steps (dcc extended), 255 steps (microchip pic pwm used by tomix) or even 2047 steps (arduino pwm).

 

Funny thing is this is exactly what happens in ijgbt or fet controlled real trains and step control works similarly for many tap changer and sprague dc systems, but you only have ebrake, -1 continous, -1 single step, +1 single step, +1 continous. (on some european units a 'steering' wheel is used for control) This system was implemented in the Lego PF train controller.

 

The set lever or turn knob to set speed system is used by many manufacturers as this is the most simple to understand for kids and people not aware how a real train works.

 

Fun fact that synhronous motor Kando AC locomotives had a system like that where the speed lever set the motor frequency and the required train speed and the motor fought to keep it, accelerating or braking automatically to keep the slip at zero. One problem was having an AC electric locomotive with only 4 stable speeds (25, 50, 75 and 100 km/h) when most mainlines in europe were steam only and below 60 km/h. The prototype installed on the valtelina line had a single speed of 12 km/h. (and on/off switch only)

[Socimi]

 

Not a model train controller but it would be cool to use.

[JR 500系]

That's fun! Well I guess someone with very good electrical knowledge would be able to change and configure that controller for actual N scale driving use!  :)

[kvp]

It's a low voltage controller, with an electropneumatic brake controller and the connecting cable present. I guess it would be very easy to decode the output and interface it to a microcontroller once you found a suitable socket for the cable.

 

After that, the usual pwm modulated signal can be generated for a motor controller. Or if one likes challenges a resistive control relay board could be made to simulate the full traction system of the train.

 

The only question is where can i get one?

[Socimi]

They maybe sold them from scrapped trains. Or it's a "build-from-0" one

[kvp]

According to a comment it was sold by jre and imho comes from either a scrapped unit or it was a spare. It's probably used, based on the scratches along the front edge.

[NXCALE]

The only question is where can i get one?

 

The RM Models No233 (which is non-coincidentally featuring the E233, by the way) gives us a hint in page 123 about a full-scale controller's price.

 

(controllers for all age people)

 

Here below some translations

 

 

 

Cheers.

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[kvp]

Thanks! Sadly it costs (before shipping) as much as an older single car dmu around here. (also in 1:1 scale and also without shipping from the scrapyard)

[kvp]

Thanks! Sadly it costs (before shipping) as much as an older single car dmu around here. (also in 1:1 scale and also without shipping from the scrapyard)

[NXCALE]

Yes, that controller is a quite expensive item.

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[NXCALE]

The Single Handle Power Pack II (N) by Cosmic

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10203646


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRszf7GNbl0

The ECS-1 by Kato (discontinued unit)

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10003145

The first in-cab controller I saw (on youtube)

An unknown controller

Unboxing the RMC-M1

Cheers,

Nxcale Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[JR 500系]

The RMC M1 is a great controller, and comes with sound even! I really like it, but it's quite costly... Their original website is here:

 

http://rm.rp.com.tw/

 

And now they come with an authentic door open and close button, for that extra feel like a conductor while playing with your model trains....

 

Perhaps you can drop them an email to see if the item can be bought directly from them?

[NXCALE]

The RMC M1 is a great controller, and comes with sound even! I really like it, but it's quite costly... Their original website is here:

 

http://rm.rp.com.tw/

 

And now they come with an authentic door open and close button, for that extra feel like a conductor while playing with your model trains....

 

Perhaps you can drop them an email to see if the item can be bought directly from them?

 

Yes, it is great controller and it is getting better and better.

I haven't visit the website for some time and it is good to see that they are still improving the controller.

 

Sometime ago I was very tempted to get one so I sent an email to get the controller directly.

The controller developer was very enthusiastic but we got lost in translation.

So, he gave me the details of someone else (who spoke English) but that person managed the sell too slowly.

Making the history short, days became weeks (to agree about the payment, delivery, etc) and finally I decided to stop the purchase.

 

I think I would try it again if I made my mind about this controller.

However, if a website like HS or ebay offers it, I would not mind to pay an extra in order to prevent having the same experience again.

 

Cheers,

 

Nxcale

[kvp]

That unknown controller is life sized (1:1) and looks like it contains some parts from a real train controller.

[JR 500系]

 

Latest version included a door opener/ closer ~ Very authentic!

 

I need a lot of reasons (and cash) to get this one... It's really tempting....

[ToniBabelony]

Sanin controllers can be bought via Nanyō Bussan. These aren't on Mr. Satō's website, but he has them either in stock and/or sells them. You can send him an email via: harimao@r8.dion.ne.jp for inquiries about the controller.