Monorail tram?

[velotrain]

OK - I'm just kidding with the topic title, as this is obviously a bus masquerading as a tram.

 

What I'm not getting is why do they bother with the guide rail?  The only thing I can think of is that it's to prevent the bus becoming separated from the overhead.

 

In Cambridge, MA, they have busses powered by overhead wire, but they're real busses not pretending to be anything else.

 

Why this instead of an actual tram?  Is it that much cheaper to just install the single rail?

 

[katoftw]

_{Cathode or earth is the rail in the ground.  Transport system also probably uses the ground rails as a guide.}

[Matteo_IT]

Hello,

in Italy, I know we have this system called "translohr" in two citie: Padova and Venice/Mestre, in this second ones is working in Mestre and will be operating in few months between Mestre and Venice using the existing "Ponte della Libertà".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translohr

 

Pic token few days ago in the bus towards venice on the bridge:

Edited February 25, 2015 by Matteo_IT

[ozman2009]

"In Cambridge, MA, they have busses powered by overhead wire, but they're real busses not pretending to be anything else". That sounds like a trolley bus to me. We used to have one in Sydney, and there are modern ones in Wellington (capital of NZ) and the French city of Lyons.

[katoftw]

Similar to Omiya New Shuttle, Sapporo Subway, Yurikamine and/or Nippori-Toneri Line, except being on the street, the above versions have the rail hidden on the ground.

[katoftw]

I found the latest and modern version:-

 

 

haha

[bikkuri bahn]

I wonder like velo whether this is so much cheaper than a conventional tram. Perhaps it climbs slopes better with its rubber tyres?

[katoftw]

Cheaper to build, construct.

Can handle steeper gradients.

Running costs are higher.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Guided_Light_Transit#Advantages

Edited February 25, 2015 by katoftw

[bikkuri bahn]

Ah so its a politically viable transit system then- sell it to the public based on its low construction costs with streetcar looks, but the high running costs are no problem for the pols as they will be out of office by then /sarcasm

[kvp]

I think the Yurikamome is a better in guided high speed mode (it can do more than 10 km/h on curves) and a conventional trolleybus is much better and cheaper in street operation. Not to mention it's easier to make them battery operated. (many new trolleybuses in Budapest have storage batteries so they can take short diversion routes away from the wires in case of construction works or traffic accidents) So imho this french system is a rather ineffective hybrid rubber weeled tram. But at least it really looks funny...

[HantuBlauLOL]

1:1 slotcars? lol

[velotrain]

"In Cambridge, MA, they have busses powered by overhead wire, but they're real busses not pretending to be anything else". That sounds like a trolley bus to me. We used to have one in Sydney, and there are modern ones in Wellington (capital of NZ) and the French city of Lyons.

 

They're often known as trackless trolleys, and I'm wondering why they don't need the "ground" rail?

I'm guessing it's due to two overhead wires and dual overhead poles.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Greater_Boston

[kvp]

They're often known as trackless trolleys, and I'm wondering why they don't need the "ground" rail?

I'm guessing it's due to two overhead wires and dual overhead poles.

They have two wires and work just like a DC powered model train. In the first days of electric railways the rails were not used for ground, so even rail based systems used dual overhead or for some 3 phase AC systems, 3 overhead wires. The problem with more than one wire is that you either have to use trolley poles that doesn't allow high speed and hard to back up with or for rail based vehicles a special ovearhead collector beam is needed.

 

In many cities trolleybuses replaced the smaller streetcar routes, since a modern articulated trolleybus can provide the same capacity of a two car (or two section) tram, without the track maintenance and improved movement freedom. You can even go as high as 3 sections with a tractor trailer unit and passively steered trailer wheels and still get the same turn capabilities as a single unit bus would have. Conventional trolleybuses can step out from under their wire up to 1 lane in both distances, while modern ones can run from batteries for a few blocks or more and recharge when they get back under the wire. This means that trams are usually left with the heavier routes, that need 3 or more cars to service. Good examples are the Hiroshima green mover or the Budapest combino, both very long trams.

 

The french system mentioned above is a half working attempt at a guided electric bus system. The good solution seems to be somewhere in the direction of the concrete guideway system invented in Canada and perfected by Niigata Transys. A good and working example is the Yurikamome people mover in Tokyo (actually a rubber wheeled light metro done right). The simpilicty of the guideway is coupled with the simplicity and reliablility of the rolling stock. It also works at higher speeds than the french system, thanks to self steering single axle bogies. Guided bus systems work in a similar manner, but with front axle steering only (with rubber steering rollers on both sides guided by small concrete walls). In return they have unguided (manually steered) operation capabilities. The Faller/Tomix car systems use a similar solution but use magnetic tracking instead of a center guide rail. The earlier N scale Tomica car system used a guide slot and two conductor rails, while the current plarail car system uses a rather crude side wall steering. Actually all of them have their prototypes somewhere around the world.

[westfalen]

Some highly paid engineers took two good ideas that have been proven in service for decades, trams and trolley busses, and and merged them together to come up with this? :icon_scratch:

[kvp]

French engineering at its finest. I suggest you to take a look at the rubber wheeled metro trains in Paris. They managed to keep the metal wheels too, so it's also two systems with the benefit of neither.

[marknewton]

That sounds like a trolley bus to me. We used to have one in Sydney, and there are modern ones in Wellington (capital of NZ) and the French city of Lyons.

Gary, there were two trolleybus lines in Sydney. One was from Town Hall in the city to Potts Point, and the other was from Kogarah to Rockdale and Sans Souci. The Kogarah line replaced the steam trams there, which must be unique in the world of public transport. Two trolleybuses survive. The Powerhouse museum has single decker No.1 from the city line, and we have double decker No.19 at the Sydney Tramway Museum at Loftus.

 

The Wellington trolleybuses are on borrowed time - the council and other parties there want them withdrawn and replaced with diesel buses in the next few years. :(

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[ozman2009]

I didn't know about the City to Potts Point line. What I do recall is my father taking me to ride on the Kogarah line.

[marknewton]

Lucky you! The Kogarah trolleybuses stopped running the year before I was born, so I just missed out. But I have driven No.19 under power for a short distance, so that's nearly as good. You should come down to Loftus one day and have a look at it, along with all our other toys. We have a Nagasaki tram as well...

 

Not many people know about the Potts Point trolleybus line, as it only ran from 1934 to 1948. It had two 3-axle single deckers and a couple of double deckers that were built on AEC "Q" type chassis, which were rather strange things with a traction motor mounted offset to one side of the middle of the chassis. They never carried registration plates and were always regarded as trams by the department.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

Edited February 26, 2015 by marknewton

[Mudkip Orange]

That sounds like a trolley bus to me. We used to have one in Sydney, and there are modern ones in Wellington (capital of NZ) and the French city of Lyons.

 

Yep. Still in use in Boston, Philly, Seattle, San Francisco, and... Dayton Ohio, which still runs an extensive fleet despite being relatively flat and low-density.

[ozman2009]

San Francisco? We'll be there in November - I'll look out for them.

[Guest ___]

Not a fan of the trolleybus myself. All the fun of a streetcar, and a bus till you drop a pole.

[westfalen]

Brisbane had a couple of trolley bus routes but they were killed off along with the trams in 1969 because they used the same power supply and they say it wasn't worth keeping just for them.  I can just remember them and the Milton depot where Lang Park football stadium now takes up a whole block.

[marknewton]

A few views of Sydney trolleybuses:

 

AEC No.2 at Potts point in 1934. David Critchley postcard collection.

 

 AEC Q No.4 at Kings Cross in 1938. David Critchley postcard collection.

 

AEC No.2 in William Street in 1948. Photo by Noel Reed.

 

AEC Q No.4 in William Street in 1948. Photo by Noel Reed.

 

AEC No.8 at Sans Souci in 1959. Photo by Noel Reed.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[ozman2009]

I didn't realise there were double deckers too. My Canberra train and opera friend will be here again in December, and we've decided to go and experience the Tramways Museum while he's here.

[marknewton]

Gary, give me plenty of notice beforehand and I'll make sure I'm there on the day to show you around.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.