Show your switching/shunting layout!

[Ken Ford]

I spent an hour or so searching the forums for threads about Japanese outline switching layouts / shunting planks and was surprised how little there was to be found.  IPBoard's search functionality is pretty weak, so I suspect I just wasn't finding the threads.

 

Who here has a Japanese prototype layout designed primarily for switching or shunting instead of continuous run?  Let's see it!

[Densha]

I haven't looked if there are actually any threads about shunting, but google advanced searching works pretty good. If you use the following URL you will search through the JNS Forums' pages: https://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:jnsforum.com

[Ken Ford]

I haven't looked if there are actually any threads about shunting, but google advanced searching works pretty good. If you use the following URL you will search through the JNS Forums' pages: https://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:jnsforum.com

That was a good suggestion - I just went through about 20 pages of results and found more than I did before. Still not many, though - the one that stood out for me was Toni Babelony's "Kiyoshi" project which I think was cancelled:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/1568-kiyoshi-rr-a-coal-mining-town/

 

I'm surprised there aren't more.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Ken Ford

[kvp]

It's rather hard to shunt without touching the cars in N scale and most people who model japanese trains choose either shinkansen and/or emus/dmus. Modern freight in Japan is containerized and/or moves in high efficiency unit trains that don't need shunting. So actual shunting can happen at either small scale operations or on historic JNR layouts.

 

On the other hand, i have a small layout plan that is still not fixed onto a board, but usually run as a temporary tabletop layout. It's a traditional traction layout around two ballon loops and a single track mainline with both continous running and shunting possibilities. My biggest problem is remote uncoupling with rapidos, reliable coupling on curves and shunting in general with very light 2 axle cars that tend to roll off if spotted somewhere not completly flat (or preferably at the bottom of a valley). The usual case is that any freight train i put together ends up as a general manifest train that gets loaded and unloaded everywhere but not really shunted.

[Nick_Burman]

I have one...

 

 

This plan was adapted from plan #6 "Switchman's Nightmare" from Kalmbach's book "101 Track Plans". I modified the plan to turn it into a combined freight/passenger terminal for my "Tomii Dentetsu". It might look a bit cramped, but there is a near-enough prototype in the form of Joshin Dentetsu's Takasaki Terminal. Contrary to what kvp said, there is ample scope for freight activity, considering I set my railway in the early 1960's (just about the time rail freight volumes in Japan peaked) - transfers to and from the JNR yard (though the connecting track at the bottom end of the yard), making and breaking down mainline freights and switching the warehouses at the back. I like the track plan but I'm thinking of redrawing it and flipping it end to end, however at this moment I'm not feeling in the mood of bringing it out of the paper...

 

Cheers NB

[Ken Ford]

Interesting, Nick - I like it. I'm thinking even smaller, something like an Inglenook.

 

Not shunting, but I think a Japanese Minories would be interesting for DMUs, EMUs or even trams - different from the usual roundy-roundy. Claude's layout is like that, just bigger.

[Nick_Burman]

Interesting, Nick - I like it. I'm thinking even smaller, something like an Inglenook.

 

Not shunting, but I think a Japanese Minories would be interesting for DMUs, EMUs or even trams - different from the usual roundy-roundy. Claude's layout is like that, just bigger.

Ken

,

 

The plan isn't all that big - 300 x 1540mm, essentially a 5x Aus-T-Track module. Any smaller would be rather restrictive.

 

Cheers NB

[Nick_Burman]

 

Here is another one - a blow-by-blow (measurements estimated by photos) rendition of Sanada station on a now-long-since-closed section of the Ueda Kotsu. Size, 300x1232mm (4x Aus-T-Trak module). The gray building is the outline of the Kato rural station.

 

Cheers NB

[Nick_Burman]

 

Another one I did some time ago...Shimonita on the Joshin Dentetsu. I need to redraw this one into SCARM...

 

Cheers NB

[Bob_NZ]

Thinking Big?

 

You might gain some ideas from my 1960s era freight yard:

 

 

Access from the main line is via "Y" .   Locos from the station (not shown) can also access the steam service yard from 'T1' and T2'   A diesel depot is on the left.

 

Features dedicated arrivals and departure lines where trains are made up or broken down plus a hump yard of sorts.

 

The double crossovers are not necessary - I had old ones which I made use off.

 

Bob

[ToniBabelony]

That was a good suggestion - I just went through about 20 pages of results and found more than I did before. Still not many, though - the one that stood out for me was Toni Babelony's "Kiyoshi" project which I think was cancelled:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/1568-kiyoshi-rr-a-coal-mining-town/

 

I'm surprised there aren't more.

 

Yep, that idea went into the bin years ago.

 

I think switching layouts in Japan (and beyond with a Japanese theme) aren't popular because Japanese railways don't see much switching in general. The Japanese model train market is oriented at running trains on loops, rather than moving them backwards and forwards on short spurs.

 

If the latter was the case, manufacturers here would have embraced Kadee couplings (or a similar concept) and not semi-permanent couplings like those found on Shinkansen models and the TN coupling systems Kato and Tomix have. Even if you look for layouts and model trains that embrace switching/shunting (入換, reikae) on Google, there isn't very much to be found either. Even prototypes of actual shunting companies (switching and terminal railroads) in Japan (入換専業鉄道, reikae sengyō tetsudō) aren't very popular to model.

[Nick_Burman]

Yep, that idea went into the bin years ago.

 

I think switching layouts in Japan (and beyond with a Japanese theme) aren't popular because Japanese railways don't see much switching in general. The Japanese model train market is oriented at running trains on loops, rather than moving them backwards and forwards on short spurs.

 

If the latter was the case, manufacturers here would have embraced Kadee couplings (or a similar concept) and not semi-permanent couplings like those found on Shinkansen models and the TN coupling systems Kato and Tomix have. Even if you look for layouts and model trains that embrace switching/shunting (入換, reikae) on Google, there isn't very much to be found either. Even prototypes of actual shunting companies (switching and terminal railroads) in Japan (入換専業鉄道, reikae sengyō tetsudō) aren't very popular to model.

 

Tony, I was on the verge of suggesting you dust off Kiyoshi when you complained in another post that lack of space and family commitments were stopping you from pursuing your Keisei interests. Drat it if switching/terminal roads aren't popular subjects to model in Japan - maybe if you started Kyoshi, brought it to a reasonable level of completion and had it featured in one of the magazines (or took it to the exhibition circuit) people would become more interested in the subject.

 

On a more personal note, I am slowly converting all my rolling stock to Micro-Trains Z scale couplers and Fox Valley wheelsets, where possible (I wish I could replace the wheelsets in my locomotives and MU cars but it's a near impossibility). This is a way of thought that 99.99999999999999999999% of Japanese modellers would not follow, but who cares? :)

 

 

Cheers NB

Edited February 18, 2015 by Nick_Burman

[kvp]

What kind of uncoupler would be ideal for conventional rapido equipped stock and Tomix finetrack? I'm interested in reliability and electric remote controllability.

[Ken Ford]

Yep, that idea went into the bin years ago.

 

I think switching layouts in Japan (and beyond with a Japanese theme) aren't popular because Japanese railways don't see much switching in general. The Japanese model train market is oriented at running trains on loops, rather than moving them backwards and forwards on short spurs.

 

If the latter was the case, manufacturers here would have embraced Kadee couplings (or a similar concept) and not semi-permanent couplings like those found on Shinkansen models and the TN coupling systems Kato and Tomix have. Even if you look for layouts and model trains that embrace switching/shunting (入換, reikae) on Google, there isn't very much to be found either. Even prototypes of actual shunting companies (switching and terminal railroads) in Japan (入換専業鉄道, reikae sengyō tetsudō) aren't very popular to model.

 

I've enjoyed taking what I've seen as the best of each culture's style of modeling and using these techniques elsewhere.  As an example the British have small branchline terminus layouts down cold, but it's a fairly uncommon way to design and build a layout here in the US.  The method works very well for US outline - why not for Japanese?

 

Just because freight switching isn't common in Japanese modeling doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.  Yes, the current day reality is that loose freight is pretty much gone, so just step back a few years.

[kvp]

 

Yes, the current day reality is that loose freight is pretty much gone, so just step back a few years.

Yes, that's why i said JNR era, preferably with steam locomotives. Actually there are many branchline layouts amongst the small japanese layouts, but usually freight went there in boxcars or baggage railcars, so not much shunting was required. Just move the freight train to the loading platform and run around at the end of the line. That's actually a quite common layout theme, along with lots of old dmu-s. The reason behind this is that even in JNR times, freight in Japan was optimized to the same extend we see in the US nowdays. There were very few sorting yards and they were in heavy use until the early 1960-ies, just right before the usual era of JNR themed layouts. After that came the practice of unit trains with the same fixed routes and schedules as passenger trains. This improved the efficiency tremendously. However shunting was still present in industrial settings, where the unit trains were assembled/disassembled and loaded/unloaded. So imho someone looking for a shunting layout should look for industrial railways or dockside railways.

[The Next Station Is...]

I don't know if you would be interested but I'm planning some T-Trak modules to capture the spirit of JR Freight's Tokyo Freight Terminal, although it won't be a small layout and it's more for showing off container trains than shunting, but I have just received a DE10 that I'm looking forward to shuffling about.

[Ken Ford]

That sounds interesting - I look forward to seeing it!

[katoftw]

To put into a little perspective, container transport on trains in Japan has been around since 1959. Long before many other nations and probably 20 years before started doing it.

 

but loose shunting is still very much alive in Japan. It is just done on a much larger scale nowadays. Instead of moving 1 boxcar here and there, they move 4 kokis here and there.

 

Lets take the Kagoshima and Sendai depots in Kyushu for example. Kagoshima has enough length for 11 cars and Sendai has enough for 7, but realisticly 5 due to the large collection of 19D empties at the south end of the work area.

 

They only have 1 main route in and out of their locations, so at some point they are being shunted together. As shunting takes time, money and resources, the Japanese have streamlined the process like everything in their lives. No different from USA intermodal stuff you see nowadays.

 

I also like The next station is have a modulur modern freight yard to be built in the future. Since my layout was designed for 1.3M worth or commuter or shinkansen. It means I'll have 8 kokis lined up, plus points and crossovers, and a little space for engines and work sheds. Freight yards are bigger than stations areas. Grrr!

Edited February 18, 2015 by katoftw

[ToniBabelony]

Tony, I was on the verge of suggesting you dust off Kiyoshi when you complained in another post that lack of space and family commitments were stopping you from pursuing your Keisei interests. Drat it if switching/terminal roads aren't popular subjects to model in Japan - maybe if you started Kyoshi, brought it to a reasonable level of completion and had it featured in one of the magazines (or took it to the exhibition circuit) people would become more interested in the subject.

 

Naw, all the rolling stock I had planned for that is back in the Netherlands, but never say never! This topic has got me thinking for my own project to incorporate a little freight action. After all, I DO have one or two cute little engines lying around... Maybe some non-descript cement/gravel cars or KOKI 200 can be of help as an excuse.

 

I've enjoyed taking what I've seen as the best of each culture's style of modeling and using these techniques elsewhere.  As an example the British have small branchline terminus layouts down cold, but it's a fairly uncommon way to design and build a layout here in the US.  The method works very well for US outline - why not for Japanese?

 

Just because freight switching isn't common in Japanese modeling doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.  Yes, the current day reality is that loose freight is pretty much gone, so just step back a few years.

 

Going back a few years would mean into the 1960s and 1970s as mentioned before in this topic. A particular chap that popped up in my head is this one: http://homepage3.nifty.com/syomonai/ (庶茂内模型鉄道, syomonai mokei tetsudō, good-for-nothing model railway) that focusses on coal and narrow-gauge operations. However, the main focus of operation is -once again- on running trains around on loops and scenery.

 

Before coming to Japan, I also had the idea to incorporate and maybe introduce European ideas to Japanese model train fans, but when leafing through older magazines (1980s and 1990s), you can see these options have been explored and the main choice remains either to build modules for local club systems, semi-temporary or temporary loop layouts. Japanese railway fans just don't have that local-goods-train culture going on and that can very much be seen at shows as well.

 

I think the philosophy in Japan with model trains is more to let them run around and relax, rather than setting up complicated shunting operations. At social occasions (shows, gatherings), it's also more about showing off your rolling stock (either new, special and/or self-built), running trains on (big) loops and chatting.

 

If there is a show with coordinated operations, these WILL however get very intense, but are then again focussed on running trains around and keeping to a planned schedule, rather than shunting freight. Even foreign (US/European) themed layouts tend to be oriented to running trains around.

 

 

 

To put into a little perspective, container transport on trains in Japan has been around since 1959. Long before many other nations and probably 20 years before started doing it.

 

but loose shunting is still very much alive in Japan. It is just done on a much larger scale nowadays. Instead of moving 1 boxcar here and there, they move 4 kokis here and there.

 

 

Yep, that's true, but I think for most people who are into shunting layouts want a variety of rolling stock, rather than just one type of freight. Granted, on the other hand mixed container freight is very colourful. ;)

 

They only have 1 main route in and out of their locations, so at some point they are being shunted together. As shunting takes time, money and resources, the Japanese have streamlined the process like everything in their lives.

 

Until you start doing your taxes, try to participate in traffic, etc. xD

[bikkuri bahn]

Model railways offer an escape from our daily humdrum and stresses, a window to another personal ideal world, so....

 

USA= older demographic nostaglic of 1940's and 50's railway scene with LCL and peddler freights (witness the almost annual ritual of special magazine issues of "railroads in WW2, their finest hour" and the like...)

 

n.b.If you model modern freight, maybe you need derailing/exploding tank cars... /sarcasm

 

JAPAN= never has rail haulage been a big part of freight mode share, it has mainly gone by ship and later truck.  Older demographic likes collecting rather than building detailed layouts, the younger model what they know, which is the dynamic and exciting modern passenger railway scene, done on n scale roundy-roundy layouts (why be nostaglic when now is the golden age??) Little freight wagons in n scale too fiddly and they are all black.

Edited February 19, 2015 by bikkuri bahn

[ozman2009]

I must say that I find the Japanese approach refreshing after all that switching/switchlist/card order orthodoxy. It echoes what I feel my own layout should emphasise, both for my main DB/SBB/OBB layout and my future small JR layout. I have it in mind to build an Excel spreadsheet that randomly picks trains to be run. Or I might just go with the whim of the day.

[katoftw]

 

Until you start doing your taxes, try to participate in traffic, etc. xD

I dont understand this riddle??

[ToniBabelony]

 

I dont understand this riddle??

 

I was poking light fun at your quote saying: "[...] the Japanese have streamlined the process like everything in their lives.", which is all but true. Life isn't as 'streamlined' as one might expect. Compared to countries where I've lived and went on vacation, Japanese lives are in some part far from streamlined. Then again, who's life is?

[marknewton]

When I first became interested in modelling Japanese railways I sketched a number of layout ideas, and this is one of them, based on the Hokuriku Railway's terminus at Komatsu. I say based on because I added a connection with the JNR, and modified the yard layout to suit operation with both EMUs and loco-hauled trains. It was drawn for HO scale, the dimensions are 8' by 2'. The real yard at Komatsu was quite small, and my version of it is almost full-scale with minimal compression.

 

 

I've always given priority to shunting/switching over simply running trains through the scenery, and all of my layout designs over the years reflect that. They also reflect my 40 years as a railwayman, so I tend to be minimalist in my approach to design. I can't stand so-called "switching puzzles" that are artificially complicated just for the sake of it. While not unknown in real life, they were neither common or popular with crews. 

 

As an example, there used to be a small complex of private sidings here in Sydney called Pippitta that served a Dairy Farmers bottling plant. The place was so awkwardly laid out and cramped that many blokes I worked with would go off sick rather than be rostered to work a train there and shunt. As a young bloke with little seniority I would get sent there often, and I grew to heartily loathe the place, as it was very easy to get into trouble there. Among it's many daunting features was a headshunt on a falling grade that ended in a 30' drop to the main road below. I never put anything over the end, but I came close at least twice.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[railsquid]

I was poking light fun at your quote saying: "[...] the Japanese have streamlined the process like everything in their lives.", which is all but true. Life isn't as 'streamlined' as one might expect. Compared to countries where I've lived and went on vacation, Japanese lives are in some part far from streamlined. Then again, who's life is?

 

There are certainly things that "just work" here (especially from the perspective of a non-resident). Trains, vending machines, heated automated toilet seats, always-polite service staff, truly convenient convenience stores, apparent lack of petty crime etc. etc.. That doesn't make Japan some sort of hyperefficient super-rational robot-run somewhat weird country the way it's often portrayed by excited journalists.

 

Anyway, kind of back on topic, coming from Britain, where the median ideal layout would probably be a pre-WWII GWR branch line with a brewery and a dairy for some local freight action, I'll certainly be incorporating some sidings into my layout so I can shunt wagons back-and-forth in a protoypically unrealistic manner which will be highly satisifying to myself but probably of little interest for anyone seeking inspiration for Japanese shunting scenes.