MicroAce F0002 TN coupler upgrade = useless

[Guest keio6000]

 

ordered a bunch of microace F0002 couplers with the thought that they would improve the quite large coupling distance between the wagons of some of my MA sets.   I test fit it on a renewed Keio 3000 inokashira line set.

 

fitting was very easy and took about 15 minutes to do all 5 wagons.   The old style coupler bit of each bogie came off easily, including off the power car bogies and the new f0002 connectors snapped into place.

 

you might even argue that the new connectors look better since they are nowhere near as overscale as the stock rapido connectors.

 

however, what they don't do, unfortunately, is actually couple more closely.  in fact, the new coupling distance is essentially identical to the old distance.  from that key aesthetic measure, therefore, the new coupler is useless.

 

i wonder if the tomix close couplers are any better.  

 

while there is a slight look improvement with the new couplers and perhaps the new couplers enable better turn negotiation (i'm not sure), overall i find the upgrade to not be worth the hassle due to the fact that the cars remain the same distance apart.

[miyakoji]

Could you cut a section out of the 'drawbar' part of the couplers and then glue them back together?

[Fenway Park]

I think Doug Coster tried these some years ago and commented that they were poor compared to the Tomix TN version. There are different versions of the TN coupler and hopefully some members on this forum can advise which version would suit your Unit.

[Guest keio6000]

while cutting out a part of the bar might work, this is really too much to ask the user to do, i think.  plus. even with superglue, this may not hold well, especially as microace seems to use the cheaper 'greasy' plastic.

 

yes, i suspect that the tomix would be better.   i bought 6 packs of these microace ones (36 total couplers) and now feel obligated to use them.  fortunately, i have probably 40-50+ emus that could benefit from improved couplers, so i'll find some place for these.

[kvp]

The tomix couplers are flush with the ends of the cars when uncoupled or coupled and on a straight section. This means zero distance. On curves, the ends of the cars push each other and thus pull on the couplers. In curves, the couplers move out and to the side, while move back to the center on straights. (some older versions lack the centering springs, but they work the same way once coupled)

 

Any coupler that has it's end plate further away from the car than the car's end is not a true close coupler. Sadly many european close couplers belong to this category, due to the problem of buffer lock in curves when the car ends (in this case the buffers) really touch.

[Densha]

These articles may be of interest to you: http://akihabara.artificial-science.org/tag/tn-coupler/

[Guest keio6000]

Thank you all for the good advice which can be summarized as follows: buy the tomix tn couplers and skip the microace ones.

[katoftw]

Is the pics coupled together showing the gaps?  before and after?

[kvp]

 

Between cars with truck-mounted Rapido couplers, the gap between carriages is 6.3mm. When these are swapped for truck-mount TNs, the gap is reduced to about 5.3mm. The gap between a carriage with a truck-mount TN coupler and a carriage with a body-mount TN coupler is even less at 4.0mm.

Also for two body mounted ones, the gap is ideally 0, but could be a bit larger when installing Tomix couplers on MicroAce stock. (in the example above, two body mounts would go down to about 2.5 mm, still not 0)

[Guest keio6000]

 

There are the old and new couplers.   The gap difference with the new microace couplers is indistinguishable.  There is zero difference for all practical purposes.  It's kind of a "what the hell were they thinking" when you look at it given that they could have cribbed from tomix when they designed them.

 

im going to order some tomix ones now and will report the difference, though it may be up to a month or more before i haev a chance to invesitage it thoroughly.

Edited December 16, 2014 by keio6000

[JR 500系]

Adding on, I did my own conversion to my 485 series Irodori using the MicroAce F0001 'tight' coupler.

 

Results were, as keio6000 knows, disappointing...

 

F0001 MicroAce 'Tight' Coupler installed on car 1 and car 2.

 

Original Rapido Couplers on car 3 and 4

 

Compare! MicroAce coupler at the bottom (car 1 and 2), Rapido default coupler on the top (car 3 and 4)

 

MicroAce coupler in the front, default coupler at the back.

 

As we can see from the photos, there are NO differences in gaps!

 

Disappointing MicroAce...

 

Try the Tomix one is way much better.... Besides, the MicroAce 'tight' coupler earns its name from the tightness when coupled. The cars are very tightly coupled and feels like the coupler is gonna break whenever we try to disconnect them...

 

 

[katoftw]

I understand you frustration.  But I fail to see how tight and close have been confused.  If Tomix have a close option, then go that option.

 

And my apologies to thosae whom english is not their first language and may have confused the meanings of the words.

Edited December 28, 2014 by katoftw

[JR 500系]

Indeed...

 

Better to go back to Tomix for these...

 

A return to my Irodori with the Tomix close coupler sees a MUCH better improvement...

(Top Tomix close coupler installed, bottom original Rapido coupler)

 

Sweet!

Edited January 29, 2015 by JR500 のぞみ

[Kabutoni]

Very interesting! I've been buying MA because they were a bit cheaper, but it seems Tomix would have been the better choice. The main reasons for MA were to support the company and lower pricing, but now looking at it again, Tomix would have been the better choice.

[JR 500系]

Certainly. The Tomix definitely cuts short the distance between the carriages. The MA ones I think does nothing except to make the connection really tight. In fact, it is SO tight it looks like it's gonna break whenever I try to take it apart....  

[E6系]

Indeed...

 

Better to go back to Tomix for these...

 

A return to my Irodori with the Tomix close coupler sees a MUCH better improvement...

(Top Tomix close coupler installed, bottom original Rapido coupler)

 

Sweet!

 

Hello Mr JR500,

 

Could you give me the Tomix product code please?

[JR 500系]

Hello Mr JR500,

 

Could you give me the Tomix product code please?

 

Sure E6 san.

 

The part number is 0336 - [ 0336 ] `TN` Tight Coupling (SP/Body-mounted/Set of 6/Black)

 

They also come in o335 - Grey ~

 

I have to get quite a lot of them to change all my rapidos gaps!

[Guest keio6000]

Just an update to this thread:  while in tokyo recently i bought a number of tomix TN coupler packs to update my microace trains with. 

The result?  While the connection is slightly tighter than the "useless" microace couplers, the distance is still not as close as it could or should be.  Given that I spend $300+ on couplers, this is a bit of a bitter pill, but the result is still better.

 

The problem can probably be easily rectified if the mountin holes for the coupler were further towards the middle of the carriage on the MA trains.  This could be doable with some work on the floorboards and the coupler is versatile enough that this shouldnt be a problem even on tight turns.  however, the sides of the bogies might run into the coupler in such a configuration.  What a mess.

 

I'll post some photos later if i can.

Edited May 24, 2015 by keio6000

[Welshbloke]

One big advantage of all of these couplers that nobody else has mentioned: They don't wobble!

 

From experience it makes a train much more stable if the couplers turn into a rigid bar when connected (such as Fleischmann Profi or these things). Rapidos have a habit of flexing about and compressing when propelled, which can either just look weird or cause derailments

[kvp]

 

Rapidos have a habit of flexing about and compressing when propelled, which can either just look weird or cause derailments

That's not that weird, hook and chain coupled stock does exactly that in real life, especially loose chain freights. It does look a bit strange with japanese trains, since they use more rigid coupling technologies in real life. Also this loosly coupled nature of rapidos have a big advantage with bad track, so a bogie mounted rapido coupled train can go across bad track that would derail everything else.

 

The problem can probably be easily rectified if the mountin holes for the coupler were further towards the middle of the carriage on the MA trains.

 

If you use the snap on type of Tomix TN couplers with the 4 mounting studs on the side of the car frame, then those can pull the coaches flush together, but that requires the gangway connections to be installed on both car ends. The couplers are sized to allow movement through sharp curves (down to R140), while keeping the cars touching, but to avoid a collision of the car corners, they can't be made too short. The gangway diaphragms work as spacers and keep the corners separate. You might want to retrofit your trains with some aftermarket ones if they are missing. The short body mounted ones can be installed on stock not supporting them by cutting off the mounting tabs and gluing them under the ends of the cars, just be careful not to get glue into the mechanisms.

[JR 500系]

Given that I spend $300+ on couplers, this is a bit of a bitter pill, but the result is still better.

 

 

Holy! $300 on couplers is amazing! You weren't kidding when you said you buy out all the stores of their couplers eh?   :)

 

Which one did you get, the 0336 black or 0337 grey or both or other types?

 

I'm interested to see some pictures as I too am keen to close the gaps, especially on MA models...

[Guest keio6000]

i got a bunch of all of them, figuring that i need not have consistency in my emus.  stores were short of grey ones in particular. tamtam still has some black ones, but they are not the cheapest around since, bizarrely, they don't remove tax for visitors like other stores do.  will send photos later.

[JR 500系]

So I went ahead to do a little 'comparison' on the couplers issue and thought i'll just post them here since it's closely related:

 

As we can see in the pictures:

 

Test subjects:

 

Most left/ top: Tomix E231-0 Joban Line - Standard Rapido couplers from factory

 

Middle: Kato E231-500 series - standard couplers from factory

 

Most right/ bottom: Tomix E231-1000 Tokaido Line - upgraded with TN couplers Tomix 0336

 

As we can see, the TN couplers are the best, closing the gaps the most at almost touching each other! But they have a major flaw... They are not cheap. At regular price of 1500 yen for only 6 in a pack, meaning long commuter trains require something like 11 cars Yamanote for example will require 20 couplers (11 x 2 couplers each subtract the two end cars), that will mean about 3 packs x 1500 = 4500 yen just for couplers....

 

Kato has standard factory couplers, and I must say the gap isn't that bad... They couple quite well together too, which is good.

 

The standard factory Rapido couplers from Tomix/ MA are the worst... The gaps are hideous...

 

This may have switch me over to Kato for commuter trains as I have now discovered a new 3rd party source for Kato interior lights...

[kvp]

Why don't you just buy the factory installed TN coupler versions instead? (like the Tomix HG sets)

[katoftw]

Why don't you just buy the factory installed TN coupler versions instead? (like the Tomix HG sets)

Links?