Tracks: European or Japanese?

[titoit]

Hi everybody!!!

As I told in my presentation, I started collecting Japanese N gauge models only recently.

I haven’t still any track and I have a doubt about it. If I’m not wrong, European N gauge tracks (such as Fleischmann, Arnold) can be used for Japanese gauge rolling stock, isn’t it?

Do you think the best choice is to buy European N gauge tracks (easier to find) or to turn around to Japanese items (such as Kato or Tomix)? Besides, what do you think about Tomix or Kato starter set?

Thank you for your advices :)

[NJHA]

My personal taste goes for Japanese track, the reasons being: 

1- Price

2- Roadbed included. 

 

I have H0 european track and also kato track and i can tell you i do prefer kato track. I tried to setup a layout on the floor. European track, slides and also disconnects itself with the speed of the moving trains. With Kato i don't have that problem.

Problem with kato track for me is just the track geometry and the lack of certain elements that may have some impact on the way you plan the layout (curved points for instance, longer than 248mm tracks)

 

As for starter sets... i can't tell about kato or tomix, i haven't ordered them because the transformer is heavy (adds to shipping fee) and mostly useless for European due to voltage and wall socket differences (my opinion). I get the impression starter sets are just that, something to start you on the hobby. Can't tell anything about their quality as i don't own any.   

 

Forgot to add: If you buy kato or tomix track, get it from the source (i.e Japan). European shops overprice the track. Buying second hand is critical since "discounted" prices get very near the original price in Japan.

Edited September 15, 2014 by NJHA

[kvp]

They are compatible, so you can use any type of standard N gauge track. However, if you plan to build a Japanese style layout, then using Tomix or Kato tracks has the benefit of being japanese style and all Japanese accessories (like station platforms) are designed for Japanese tracks. Also both Kato and Tomix makes various roadbed tracks, so you just put the track down and it's ready to run. Both manufacturers make tracks with conventional wooden ties, modern concrete ties, concrete slab tracks and various viaduct tracks. With traditional european style unballasted tracks, you have to make the ballast/concrete/viaduct yourself from scratch and paint the ties by hand to the style you want.

 

Personally, i went with Tomix finetrack, because it has the most variety both in styles and track pieces and it looks good. If you want to run on the floor, then Kato unitrack survives that better because it's more resistant to being stepped on by kids. It's even possible to use Japanese tracks for European layouts, because of the large variety of track types, including street running tram tracks and the moving car system of Tomix.

 

Starter sets are great if you don't yet have a layout plan, but want to get some track and run the trains. Shipping costs might be a bit higher for the larger boxes, but the package is usually a bit cheaper than getting everything separately, so it will cost roughly the same in the end.

[railsquid]

As far as I know, N-gauge trains will run on any N-gauge track. I have no experience with European N-gauge track, though when I was younger I had a lot of OO/HO track (including from Lima). Now I'm living in Japan, and recently rediscovering this hobby, it was natural to go with Kato track, and I'm still amazed by how stable and easy to use it is. You can just put it down on a reasonably flat surface and the trains will run fine, even at speed over points, which is something pretty much impossible with the OO/HO track I remember.

 

Unless you really want to ballast your own track, I'd go with a Kato starter set. The downside to Kato and Tomix is that their track is directly incompatible with other systems (they each "sit" on their own "ballast" and have different connector styles) but you can get Kato adapter rails which connect to other systems; personally I use Kato for most stuff, which connects to Tomix rails for high-level track (which Tomix does better in my opinion).

[titoit]

Thank you.

Reading your posts, I think it’s better to buy Kato or Tomix tracks. As I start with N gauge from scratch, I think that only track packages could be a good solution.

But now I’ve another question for you, concerning power transformers. Is it right that Japanese motors are settled for 12 DC V?

So, is it better to buy Japanese power transformers? Are they compatible with European (Italian) power net?

In conclusion, considering that I have to purchase  both tracks and electrical supply, I thought to buy a starter set. I like very much this one

http://www.traintrax.co.uk/10018-e231-tokaido-shonanshinjuku-line-starter-p-1036.html

[E6系]

Hello Mr titoit,

 

Before you make your first purchase of track, I would invite you to take some time to review this website: http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/

 

Many foreigners prefer Kato track because it is more widely available outside Japan, and it is very good.  But I prefer the flexibility of Tomix track.  Also, it is very popular in Japan, and you can purchase it online from vendors that ship internationally.  I also prefer the lower profile of Tomix track, which has a more realistic ballast.

 

http://www.osbornsmodels.com/which-track-to-choose-805-c.asp

 

http://newinteriordesignstyle2010.blogspot.com.au/2009/09/fleischmann-tomix-and-kato-roadbed.html

 

Which track you choose is up to you.  I just suggest you investigate the options and decide your preferences first.

[NJHA]

Thank you.

Reading your posts, I think it’s better to buy Kato or Tomix tracks. As I start with N gauge from scratch, I think that only track packages could be a good solution.

But now I’ve another question for you, concerning power transformers. Is it right that Japanese motors are settled for 12 DC V?

So, is it better to buy Japanese power transformers? Are they compatible with European (Italian) power net?

In conclusion, considering that I have to purchase  both tracks and electrical supply, I thought to buy a starter set. I like very much this one

http://www.traintrax.co.uk/10018-e231-tokaido-shonanshinjuku-line-starter-p-1036.html

 

Kato or tomix is just a matter of taste. Some prefer tomix, others prefer kato. Quality wise they are both very good, so you can't miss with any of them. 

If you choose Kato you will use kato stations, if your choice is tomix, then you'll be using tomix stations. There are several posts on the forum about both systems, take a look. 

 

As for power, Japan uses 110V 50 hz on some points, and 110v 60hz on others (wikipedia information) and special wall sockets. On Europe you have 220-240v and 50hz almost everywhere. So i would say the transformer is useless in europe. For my trains, i use a regular H0 transformer, but you can use almost anything, including computer power sources (that give out +5 and +12v). If you are up to it you can find schematics all over the internet for n scale power sources. 

 

As for the site you posted... 130 pounds that's around 165€. (plus shipping)

See the same train in japan: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10233905 (see other choices, and other trains too, and also take a look at the suppliers forum, especially model train plus and loco1hobby)

Most of us buy our stuff directly from Japan. It's a pain sometimes with customs but it's worth it (although i believe your customs are similar to ours, i.e. snail slow and bureaucratic to the bone) 

[kvp]

 

As for power, Japan uses 110V 50 hz on some points, and 110v 60hz on others (wikipedia information) and special wall sockets. On Europe you have 220-240v and 50hz almost everywhere. So i would say the transformer is useless in europe. For my trains, i use a regular H0 transformer, but you can use almost anything, including computer power sources (that give out +5 and +12v). If you are up to it you can find schematics all over the internet for n scale power sources. 

Please if you can, don't use H0 power packs for N scale trains. First, you can damage them by applying too much voltage, since H0 goes way up above 12V. Second, during a derailment, you can damage (melt) your power routing points and the trains themselves, if the H0 pack outputs a high current and most of them do that. For N scale power sources, the best is to use an N scale pack, like cheap MiniTrix wall adapter based ones. However most european N scale packs are incompatible with Japanese accessory power, since it uses DC. (some Maerklin Z and MiniTrix N packs do output DC and are usable as well)

 

Also, most modern Tomix packs are either 100-240V 50/60Hz or use a wall adapter which you can replace with a compatible general use one. Some Kato packs support the same and the ones sold in Europe usually come with a replacement adapter.

 

ps: For selecting the right track manufacturer, you have to decide if you want to run mostly on the floor and want to take apart your layout after every use (Kato) or want to build a permanent one and need a larger variety of tracks and turnouts (Tomix). The prices are roughly the same and both have online and offline sellers in europe, but getting them from Japan is a bit cheaper.

[titoit]

Sorry if I insist with power transformer, but I’m not prepared with electronics  and I think this is very important in order to avoid damages to motor engines or transformer themselves.

Do Kato or Tomix transformers 100-240V 50/60Hz equipped support European domestic power net?

By the way, I think old transformers (such as Lima or Rivarossi) were made for both H0 and N gauge. At home I have an old one setted for 0-12 Voltage.

[NJHA]

Please if you can, don't use H0 power packs for N scale trains. First, you can damage them by applying too much voltage, since H0 goes way up above 12V. Second, during a derailment, you can damage (melt) your power routing points and the trains themselves, if the H0 pack outputs a high current and most of them do that. For N scale power sources, the best is to use an N scale pack, like cheap MiniTrix wall adapter based ones. However most european N scale packs are incompatible with Japanese accessory power, since it uses DC. (some Maerklin Z and MiniTrix N packs do output DC and are usable as well)

 

Mine is a rather old power pack (around 30 years old, almost a relic) and it's rated 12V DC and 14V AC.  But i still take care on moving the speed dial all the way to the top.

I am working on changing it to DCC although i am a bit worried because my DCC station is from roco (the one with the multimaus) and the transformer says 18v DC. Don't know if those 18V will be put to the track, or if the exit outputs less than 18v.

[E6系]

Hello titoit,

 

As far as I know, all new Tomix transformers are 100-240V 50-60Hz and should work in any country listed here: http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plug-voltage-by-country/

 

However, please check with the retailer at the time of purchase to make sure the transformer is specified as above.  You may need an adaptor plug between your wall socket and the two-pin Japanese plug type A.

[kvp]

Mine is a rather old power pack (around 30 years old, almost a relic) and it's rated 12V DC and 14V AC. But i still take care on moving the speed dial all the way to the top.

That should be ok, unless it's a 220V pack, in which case you will have 230/220 around 4.5% more voltage on the output. Just check if the 12V DC is really 12V DC. On the other hand, the 14V AC have to be rectified and that would give you either 14-0.7*2=12.6V DC which is ok for japanese accessories, unless the value on it isn't peak AC voltage which vould mean around 18.6V peak after the rectifier. You also have to check the maximum current that goes to the tracks to be around or below 2 amps to protect your turnouts and trains in case of a derailment short.

I am working on changing it to DCC although i am a bit worried because my DCC station is from roco (the one with the multimaus) and the transformer says 18v DC. Don't know if those 18V will be put to the track, or if the exit outputs less than 18v.

That would usually be between 18 and 16V square wave on the outputs, which DCC decoders should tolerate. Imho it's better to decrease the output DCC voltage with a few 3A voltage dropper diode pairs to be around 14V square wave. That would mean approximately 12V PWM going to the motors from the decoders, which is just right for japanse N scale. If you want to measure true DCC voltage, then measure it through a rectifier bridge in DC mode and add 1.4V (in case of common silicon diodes, the voltage drop of a diode is 0.7V)

Edited September 17, 2014 by kvp

[NJHA]

Thank you for the warning. I will look into it :)