EF510 transfered to Hiroshima?

[yakumo381]

Been following several posts on this very interesting website: http://ameblo.jp/jrf-ef200/archive1-201309.html

 

Entry for "2013年09月29日" of "広島車両所に元ＪＲ東日本機ＥＦ５１０　５０６号機が入りました。" appears to translate as "JR East based machine EF510 506 Unit joined the Hiroshima vehicle office?

 

Any ideas why?

[nartak]

There are some information on Wikipedia...

 

EF510 501-508, and 511 are kind of obsolete vehicle at JR East.  And they are already or will be sold to JR Freight and will replace old JRF's locomotives....  That may be the reason.

[Krackel Hopper]

There are some information on Wikipedia...

 

EF510 501-508, and 511 are kind of obsolete vehicle at JR East.  And they are already or will be sold to JR Freight and will replace old JRF's locomotives....  That may be the reason.

 

I am surprised JR East would consider these locomotives obsolete.  The EF510-500s were delivered in 2010.  These locomotives are only 3 years old.  Is it simply because JR East ordered too many and they are just thinning down the overall number?  As far as I know, they only run the Hokutosei & Cassiopeia trains.  I suppose 15 locomotives for those two trains is maybe a bit excessive.

 

Or is JR East already looking to change out the EF510-500s for something else?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

[miyakoji]

I suppose 15 locomotives for those two trains is maybe a bit excessive.

I was wondering about this too when JRE purchased them.  They must have been intending to replace a specific number of EF81s, wasn't it really 15?

[westfalen]

All the photos of them in Japan Railfan Magazine hauling freight would indicate the locos have a lot of spare time on their hands.  Will be a bit of relief from the EF210s that dominate the scene down that way these days.

[Sacto1985]

Maybe these EF510's will be modified to run as helper engines operating between Hiroshima and Saijo Stations in the Hiroshima area? After all, the EF67's normally assigned to this service are getting way up there in years and are approaching the need to retire them.

[Densha]

Weren't they replacing those with EF210-300's or is that a different line?

[nartak]

Sorry, I should share more from the Wiki....  Here it is.

 

"Those EF510-500s were based at Tabata Operation Center and used for freight trains as a part of subcontracting from JR Freight.  However, this subcontract was ended at Mar. 15, most of them became no use for JR East.  Those freight trains are now replaced with EH500."

[yakumo381]

Weren't they replacing those with EF210-300's or is that a different line?

Densha - if you look through the the website I quoted at the start of this thread, you will see pictures of the EF210-300 that have already been delivered and are in use on the old Sanyo main line through Saijo. At least three have been delivered and are already in use so unlikely that the EF510-500's would also be needed given the fall off in JRF traffic.

 

As JRF have started scrapping the EF200's used on this line then could the EF510-500's be a replacement for them?

 

Will be interesting to see what livery JR West repaint the EF510-500's into, hopefully something different to the EF210's.

[miyakoji]

To follow up on this a bit, the first post in this thread has a picture of EF510-506 at a JR Freight event in Hiroshima, with the shooting star and JR East's name removed: http://rail-uploader.khz-net.com/index.php?id=1121235. Also, the card below the driver's side window says Toyama, I think this always indicates the rolling stock's home depot.

Edited October 28, 2013 by miyakoji

[Davo Dentetsu]

Tragic.  Looks the worse for it.

[Densha]

Unfortunately pulled passenger trains are very uncommon in Japan so if there's an excess amount you can exprect these kind of things. Still a pity because the colour scheme in very nice.

[miyakoji]

Meanwhile, JR West continues to pull the Twilight Express with EF81s, I wonder how much longer that will go. Back when JRE ordered these, I think we speculated here that JRW might get some too, but obviously that didn't happen. Although, as we can see with the EF210-300, Kawasaki (or whoever) can apparently tool up and build a few for a price that JR consider worth it.

[yakumo381]

EF67-2 now being scrapped in Hiroshima as replaced by EF210-300 series.

 

Fortunately managed to photograph all of the EF67 on my last trip to Japan - looks like just in time.

 

See this blog:

 

http://ameblo.jp/jrf-ef200

[westfalen]

I'm glad I spent a morning videoing the EF67s in 2011, EF67 2 seems to have evaded my camera although I caught 1 and 3.  My friend and I are planning to spend a morning at Muckainada in a week and a half to hopefully capture a few more for posterity before they are all replaced by the ubiquitous blue EF210s.

[miyakoji]

Three more EF510-500s, numbers 512, 513, and 515, are likely transferred to JR Freight.  I haven't been keeping track closely, but I think JRE might only have 3 of the original 15, numbers 509 and 510 in Cassiopeia livery, and 514 in Hokutosei livery.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2015/12/11/160000.html

[spacecadet]

Kinda sad... 513 is the engine that pulled my Cassiopeia only a month or so ago.

[Sacto1985]

Just as long as they're not being shipped to Nagano to await their final fate....

Edited December 13, 2015 by Sacto1985

[katoftw]

Too new to be scraped.  Jr East are making some money selling of usable engines.  JR Freight are saving some money buying usable engines. Win-Win.

Edited December 13, 2015 by katoftw

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

JR Freight is currently concentrating their expenses for purchasing new locomotives on the EH800 to replace the EH500 on Seikan freight duties, so by purchasing used EF510-500 from JR East it would save enough money for their expenses on purchasing another locomotive.

 

(Off topic: EH500s that replaced from Seikan freight duties are not scrapped - they are instead moved to another area for replacing the aging EF81s, as well as the aging AC-only electric locomotives in Kyushu)

[Ewan.in.gz]

Well, the JR East EF510s will soon be losing their purpose at JR East.... Once the first stage of the Hokkaido Shinkansen opens to Shin-Hakodate, Hokutosei and Cassiopeia services will be discontinued because all the schedule slots through the Seikan Tunnel will be used for Shinkansen and JRF only....

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

Well, the JR East EF510s will soon be losing their purpose at JR East.... Once the first stage of the Hokkaido Shinkansen opens to Shin-Hakodate, Hokutosei and Cassiopeia services will be discontinued because all the schedule slots through the Seikan Tunnel will be used for Shinkansen and JRF only....

Hokutosei has been already completely abolished. The next (actually, last) one to be abolished would be Hamanasu and Cassiopeia...

[Ewan.in.gz]

I knew the Hokutosei was reduced to a seasonal service in March, but I didn't realize it was withdrawn in August.... As for the Hamanasu, I am surprised it is still running with 40 year old stock!

 

Although I would think that Cassiopeia still has a chance (in theory) to become a seasonal or special event service, the vast majority of passengers who would take trains through the Seikan Tunnel will probably choose Shinkansen over sleeper services. Combine that with the fact JRF will continue to run freight through the tunnel leads to a lack of pathing slots.

 

So, Shinkansen and freight, plus the overnight inspections that will be implemented for infrastructure maintenance will also mean there is no time in the regular schedule for the traffic that the EF-510-500s were built for. The EF-510s were built for JRF first, and the JR Group has virtually eliminated locomotive hauled passenger trains, so JR East selling most of it's EF-510 fleet to JRF makes more sense than letting them sit abandoned in a siding somewhere!

 

Ewan

[Ewan.in.gz]

Ooops! My wi-fi went all screwy and I posted twice. Sorry everyone!

 

Doesn't help that it's one am here and I have a cold....

 

Ewan

Edited December 20, 2015 by Ewan.in.gz

[spacecadet]

Although I would think that Cassiopeia still has a chance (in theory) to become a seasonal or special event service, the vast majority of passengers who would take trains through the Seikan Tunnel will probably choose Shinkansen over sleeper services.

Well, we'll see. The Cassiopeia has always been extremely popular to the point of selling out usually the day tickets go on sale, so it's not like the shinkansen could really be *more* popular, except that they'll be able to run more of them, each one has more seats and therefore they can carry more passengers. So in the sense of number of passengers carried there will definitely be more, but that's as much due to capacity constraints on the overnight trains as on the relative popularity of the shinkansen.

 

As for what most people would *choose*, though, who knows... with the announced running time of the shinkansen and the withdrawal of the Cassiopeia, the choice is really between the shinkansen and the airlines, and I'm not sure the shinkansen on this route is really as competitive as it is on some other routes. I think this could end up being a big money-loser. The Seikan Tunnel itself has been underutilized as it is compared to its initial projections, so the government has a history of over-promising here.

 

I don't really know all the issues that led to the track upgrades, if there's some benefit for freight as well or whatever. But strictly regarding passenger trains, this seems the equivalent of installing a high speed rail line between New York and Chicago. It seems like that money could be better spent elsewhere in the system, because if speed is the goal, it's still going to be faster to fly. People took the overnight trains for a different reason; they weren't competing directly with airlines like the shinkansen will.

Edited December 21, 2015 by spacecadet