British N Scale resources and manufacturers

[Kiran]

I am finally getting around to figuring out my UK train collection. I am glad to see both Graham Farish and Dapol getting into producing more N scale passenger trains, especially DMUs. In addition to Virgin Pendolino and Class125 (with class 43 locos), I have the following on order:

CLASS 170/3 170308 SOUTH WEST TRAINS 2-CAR DMU
By Graham Farish 

Class 121 020 Chiltern Railways Blue 

Class 101 2-Car DMU BR Blue & Grey DCC Sound
Class 150/2 2-Car DMU 150236 Arriva Trains Wales (Revised) DCC Sound

Class 142 Pacer Mock Great Western Chocolate & Cream 2 Car DMU No.142022

Class 56xx GWR Unlined Green (Great Western Lettering) 0-6-2 Tank Locomotive No.6671

Class 153 153302 Wessex Trains Black/Gold DCC Fitted
Class 153 153323 Arriva Trains DCC FITTED

Class 450 4-Car EMU No. 450073 in South West Trains livery

 

What I really want is Class 165 or 166 in FGW or GWR livery. I used to take those from Reading to Maidenhead to get to work.

 

P.S: I guess Revolution Trains need to be added to the list of manufacturers in the first post.

[Welshbloke]

You may or may not be impressed with the Pacer. I know I wouldn't have been happy paying full price for one. The windows aren't deep enough and it looks drastically overscale compared to my other Dapol DMUs. Mine was an impulse buy for £50 in pretty much unused mint condition.

 

What's annoying is that they spent ten years developing it and were warned about these errors when they unveiled the very first set of CAD drawings. They completely ignored the advice, when even a quick comparison of the side view to a photograph of the real thing would have proven the fault...

[disturbman]

More pictures of the upcoming Class 800s have been released.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SHPakNai2q6wscjR9 (pitcures courtesy of N-Gauge information, link courtesy of @roadstar_na6)

The Azuma looks a lot better than I had expected.

Edited March 17, 2021 by disturbman

[railsquid]

Hmm, why are the windows in one half of the cab cars blocked off?

[disturbman]

It's a bi-mode train (diesel and electric).

[railsquid]

Aha! I am not very up-to-date with modern British trains... Mind you that's a typical half-assed British railway policy decision of the kind which gave us 3rd-rail Eurostar... I shall probably buy one anyway to encourage Kato,  likely the red version as I like it more.

Edited March 17, 2021 by railsquid

[matt_d10]

The blocked out windows on the LNER version are where the first class kitchen is! The engines are underfloor I believe. GWR have bi-modes too with no blocked windows. Looks like a nice model for sure! 

[disturbman]

You are right, it's a "crew and kitchen" area: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0aOBNiWkAAP3Rg.png  British ICs have a dedicated lunch service for the first class?

The GWR also has three blocked windows: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwakely/47930583541/

 

[matt_d10]

Nice spot, didn't realise GWR had it too! LNER brought catering back to compete with the west coast operators. Usually a free meal is served during the week when fares are higher. In the past I've found cheap "advance" first class fares when travelling, which is a nice find when you get a dinner and a few gin and tonics!

[Welshbloke]

The bi-mode bit varies between operators.

 

GWR sets are intended to run at line speed on diesel, as they still haven't electrified the entire network these run on.

 

LNER set diesels are more like an aircraft APU, if the power goes off the lights/heating/aircon/toilets will still work, and the train can move at around 20mph to the nearest station. Saves the problems which have occurred with electric units stuck in the middle of nowhere with no rescue locos and increasingly hacked-off passengers, who are overheating or freezing and need the loo.

 

In the unlikely event of the GWR network being fully electrified they may well remove excess diesel engines and have something like the LNER setup. At this rate that'll be for the replacements of whatever replaces the 800s, some time in the 2090s!

[Claude_Dreyfus]

The biggest problem with the bi-modes is they have effectively killed off major electrification projects for the foreseeable future in the UK. Much cheaper to run a fleet of bi-modes than electrify deep into the west country for example... 

 

That said, they're nice-looking sets. I have an LNER set in order myself.

[kusojiji]

Old thread, but how do your British locos run? I bought a Graham Farish class 08 and a Dapol A1 Terrier. Both run great for 20 minutes and then its clean, check pickups, cuss and swear time. The Terrier is currently in pieces as I did my best to strip all of the grease and oil out of it. I am also installing head lamps and will try a small keep alive in it (DC - bipolar caps, not sure if it will work or not). Waiting for the tantalum caps to arrive. The class 08 met the hand of god last night and has been exorcised from existence. I did install a tiny headlamp and tail lamp in it (as inspired by this way works on Youtube). I have the shell, DCC blanking plate that the lights were soldered to, and the motor. The rest were crushed.

 

Although just a small sampling, but 80-120 bucks per loco is too much to make this gamble. So far 100% dissatisfaction, so am swearing off anymore. I don't think that I should have to work too hard to get these things to run. My Kato stuff all run reliably. My C11 from 2006 is running around my track right now. Both traction tires blown off and will be replaced, but it is not complaining. I sent a comment to Kato and hope they will get into the British steam loco market. They do the easier electric and diesel stuff right now.

[disturbman]

I don't have any British models, but your experience fits with what I have hearded. The mode looks alright, but they aren't really made for running.

I'm not sure you will see Kato do more British stuff. Their only offering is a Hitachi train and I'm not sure how much appetite they have for the British market. The 009 products are a personal project of Kato-san.

[SwallowAngel]

Hey there,

Sad to hear that your locos run like they do, however I doubt there's much you can do about it.

Dapol is infamous for their terrible QC when it comes to steam locos N, this poor lad had to send back 5 of his 6 Dapol steamers...
Graham Farish seems better in that regard, my Peppercorn A1 only needed a thorough maintenance with some oiling to get her running relatively nicely. The only gripe I still have is her tendency to slip when pulling anything, though that is more of a design oversight with the traction tires (+ I got her for 50€ anyhow, so I won't complain about that bargain). Graham Farish tends to charge wayyyy too much for their models however, they are really not worth their MSRP IMO...

In my personal experience, British models in general are very temperamental, especially when compared to my KATO N steamers.

Your problems regarding the Terrier seem like a pick-up issue, not sure exactly what could improve it without further details, but giving them a good lubing is never wrong.

 

As for your wish of British KATO steam locos, I doubt we'll see that anytime soon I'm afraid. As @disturbman already pointed out, their small line up of British models are either Kato-san's passion project or are otherwise connected to Japan, giving them a small, but guaranteed, group of interested people in their domestic market. This isn't exactly helped by the rather small market for British N, since Brits seem to prefer 009 for small spaces and Hornby's hard push for TT:120's wider market adoption. Additionally British N gauge is even weirder than Japanese N, since it is scaled 1:148 for literally no good reason, making the interest outside of the UK even smaller than it would've been otherwise.

I'm still of the opinion that a reasonably priced British steamer from KATO would sell like hot cakes, but I doubt the effort is worth it for them...

[Claude_Dreyfus]

11 minutes ago, SwallowAngel said:

Additionally British N gauge is even weirder than Japanese N, since it is scaled 1:148 for literally no good reason,

There was a very sound reason for this scale. The UK loading gauge is much smaller that Continental Europe, however in the early days motors were not very sophisticated and could not scale down very well. The compromise to fit these motors was to use the slightly larger 1/148 scale. Obviously as time has progressed and motors have improved, the need for the compromise has gone, however by that point it was rather too late!

 

Dapol have long been notorious for their slapdash approach. Either the lack of QC, or the wrong shade of colour in their livery application (class 73 for example), or just plain wrong (class 142). The running trouble has also been linked to excessive transit grease, which after a while hardens and can cause damage). 

 

That said, I have 4 Terriers (I live in their original territory), and all are pretty well behaved. 

[SwallowAngel]

2 minutes ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

There was a very sound reason for this scale

 

Emphasis on "was" 🙂
Of course historical precedence is the reason we ended up in this scale, but MicroAce faced the same situation with their early steam locos being 1:140-ish (some are even worse), but with technical advancements we got to our "correct" Japanese 1:150.
Just because things "are" and "were" one way, doesn't mean we should stick to it in my opinion.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Of course. I am saying that is how it is, not how it should be. It is easier for a manufacturer to revise on their previous offerings as a scale settles into an agreed standard, however in the case of UK modelling, they had. 1/148 may be wrong, but it was an agreed standard and subsequently breaking away from that will cause a backlash. Any new models would be significantly smaller than the old; assuming you go for 1/160. Don't forget this has been tried before. In the 70s a number of manufacturers (admittedly Continental) tried to introduce British H0. Despite the huge potential benefits (economy of scale, a huge range of suitable items available on the Continent), it never took off.

 

In reality does this difference put people off? The trains use the same track gauge and similar enough power outputs. If someone wants a Flying Scotsman, then I suspect they will by one anyway (except maybe the Dapol version! 😉)

[Kamome]

19 hours ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

That said, I have 4 Terriers (I live in their original territory), and all are pretty well behaved.

I have had 3 terriers from Dapol and sadly all but one have given up the ghost, ironically the one I got as replacement for my original is still going. They are stunning little models but are like all Dapol steamers, very hit and miss or miss, hit and miss in my case. The good thing about Dapol is the price-point but if you can't back that up with QC, its not great unless you just want a static model that happens to have a motor in.  The wiper pick ups are horrendously fine and dismantling the model to repair is a challenge as everything is hard wired in very tightly. I still haven't given up on my dud Improved Green one as the motor runs, just the chassis is not ideal due to its size and unnecessary design of pickups and motor mounting. 

 

It's a shame that Kato don't produce a UK steam loco in N. Think the UK industry could do with a bit of a shake up and some of the prices are getting ridiculous. (Revolution Trains Class 180, 5 car set for 429 pounds) I certainly wouldn't be picking N in the UK. I'd love to have a valanced A4 Mallard but these also seem temperamental and the motor is housed in the tender with a driveshaft to the loco. We are just spoilt with Japanese designs and price point so much of the UK stock starts to look crap or overpriced. The detail on the Dapol models is however fantastic, to give some balance to the argument.