Custom Unitrack-Replacing Flex Track

[Guest Closed Account 1]

I have a situation. Lengthy story.

 

I am building a shopping list to restore a layout whose flex track has been hacked by amateurs. Won't go into details about what happened.

 

List A is all new roadbed and flex track.

 

List B is modular track with Kato Unitrack (preferred).

 

Using RailModeller program I was able to replace all the flex track with the V16 R480 double curves.

 

The yards will be replaced with the wooden sleeper tracks to match the 6 switches.

 

However, the large teardrop curve that runs around the yard has to include some straights. The only way to complete the curve is to use 5 pieces equivalent to the length of the V16 easements in a row.

 

No half curves are made yet.

 

Since the easements are essentially curves that are twisted, banked from 0-8 degrees, wouldn't splitting the track down tbe middle create the half curve required? This custom piece will be between banked track to control the bank which should be 8.

 

I'm not worried about the ugly seam because we will add some desert sand and vegetation between all the double tracks.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Mudkip Orange]

I don't see why you couldn't slice a double-track bank track in half to get a 22.5-degree piece, if that's what you're asking. Just be all careful and stuff.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

I thought of that but the rails are going to have to slide out of the way to cut and for joiners.

 

How is this accomplished on a curve?

 

I'd rather cut a full curve in half than modify an easement because 2 easements are always required.

[The_Ghan]

Doug Coster's Enoshima layout uses mostly Tomix modular track.  However, he has a section of seductive curves that have been done with flex.  I was tricked into thinking it was a Tomix product, he did such a good job.  Have you thought about combining both technologies and using each for which it is best suited?

 

 

Just a thought ...

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Mudkip Orange]

Ghan has a point, if you're going to ballast anyway you can use sectional in tight spots and flex for broad ones...

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Thanks! Will definitely consider all avenues before the tear down.

 

I found a mismatch fitment area that has allowed me to get the curved tracks to line up properly.  Reality will set in over the weekend when I am physically at the layout for curve test fits. I used a sketch and measurements to rebuild this on the desktop.

 

Found the article for making custom lengths:

http://www.fiferhobby.com/html/how_to_make_your_own_lengths_o.html

 

At this point I can split a full curve and use both pieces. The Canyon section runs at 45 or 60 degrees and the half curves are needed there. Maybe sections of V11 will be used here.

 

The colors in the layout represent the Red and Blue Lines, and the Wooden Sleeper tracks. Purple for the Crossover, and Green for the Concrete Sleeper track. Now the parked trains in the yard can run on both lines via the crossover. Controllers are located below the bottom left.

 

Original bare layout picture added today. I also updated the computer layout plan based on the mock pictures further down.

[The_Ghan]

'Skip,

 

Is that a station at the bottom?

 

Is there enough space for platforms?

 

Could you get it longer? ... the station, I mean !!!! 

 

Could you pull the parallel green tracks forward and add sidings to make platforms for that too?  You could then run a train through the front and stop at the back and vice-versa.

 

Cheers mate.  It looks like you don't need the flex here.

 

The_Ghan

[Guest Closed Account 1]

The passings are just passings at the moment. Once I see that there is enough real estate I'll add a station or 2. The road runs above it.

 

It's a small layout. Each grid square represents one inch. I don't plan to run anything longer than 10 cars. A full 16 car Shinkansen overpowers the scene.

 

All passenger trains run between 2 stations.

 

Once we get this track down and running, the other gauges in the museum are going to drool.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Mock Pictures.

 

Below are some pictures I took this weekend of the Unitrack over the flex track. Not works of art, just a way to advance my rough draft.

 

The pictures take you around the layout. Original completed layout picture has been added in an above post.

 

Since then, many of the R480 have been replaced with R414 in some areas. Crazy tight tear drop curves.  The only way to be sure this will work is getting all the track.

 

Around the pasture (aka dogbone loop), R348's will be inserted to make the R381 curves complete the tear drop and make it across the bridges.

 

The intent of the Arizona Painted Desert looking colors were placed as a beginning and Arizona SW Desert colors were to be added later. That opportunity is now.

 

So that warrants a total facelift.

 

Track tear off and have fun with terrain powders. Maybe I can chisel away some of the mountain for the R480 curves all the way around. Almost have the room in the yard but the radii are too obtuse to meet the next curve.

 

The mine loop will hopefully become an oval by extending the mountain to the wall. Originally the plan was to have this track Z scale.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

More mock pictures.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Delete this reply....

[Mudkip Orange]

Definitely see what you're going for here. If a layout is going to have this much straight track, there's really no reason not to go Kato/Tomix.

 

One thing you might consider for the spacer straight track in the teardrop loop (6_northmountain.jpg). You can connect single-track Kato directly to the superelevated tracks without using an "easement" curve in between. Obviously, this won't work nicely if it's flat at the other end. But you could connect say two superelevated corners with two S124's and you wouldn't have any mid-corner superelevation runoff, it would just continue through the tangent (straight) section.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

That's an idea. I was going to split a full curve lengthwise and soak it in hot water so it will twist. Once I determine tbe real track layout I'll think through these things more.

 

I'm seriously considering blasting some mountain areas to make room for the R480.

 

Learned a terrain technique tonight that uses paper towels and white glue. Cover with local earth and pepper with green terrain. Looks real.

[Krackel Hopper]

Have you considered using a bigger radius?

 

If the curves of the V11 (381/414) are just a little too small without a straight.. what about  the V16 and it's bigger 447/480 curves?

 

Mudkips idea of adding the 124 straight will work, but you need to use single track pieces.  The concrete tie double-track straight will not match.  You can get single track 124mm pieces, only available in the V15 set.. but that should work.. and although the track goes straight for 124.. that 124 should still be "super-elevated".. in theory.. you might have to shave some plastic off one side of the roadbed on those 124s.. otherwise it will try to lay flat and warp the rail..

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Have you considered using a bigger radius?

 

Yes of course. See the Yard picture and tbe current computer drawn layout up the topic. I can only use R480 if I blast away the hillside and it's near impossible to connect to the next curve. No room for short straights.

 

The inner curve around the town is about and inch too wide to fit a perfectly complete R480 180 degree turn.

 

The Canyon is a weird angle. R414 transition curves fit correctly to make the angle.

 

Tomorrow night is a layout work night so let me find out what's the mountain made of and how much to remove and still retain the top.

 

Guarantee in real life that they'll blast the hillside to make the track fit. :)

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Is anyone using electro-uncouplers or Kato magnetic uncouplers in their Unitrack layouts?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Polling the audience for Station planning and logistics.

 

Where would you place a long station platform using Kato V15 or #6 switches or curves, where the Redline and Blueline train can both use it?  Also need to figure out how to get people over the track to the platforms.

 

On this layout, I will try to limit bullet trains to 10 cars. A simulated V15 station track is in the layout pic in the center of the main passings (green).

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi, on my layout I have the Kato crossovers attached to flex track with no issues. I am using Atlas code 80 flex.  As mentioned before the Kato track is abit higher than flex track with cork so you need to raise it up a little bit. You also don't need the Kato adapter track to connect Kato to flex track. All you need to do remove the Kato clips and the flex trax will attach to the Kato rail using the regular Atlas rail joiners. If you need some additional room for the rail joiner you can use a dremel to cut the plastic off.

 

Spiff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Yes I'm aware that Unitrack can mate to flex tracks.

 

We're restoring the layout purely with Unitrack.

 

In fact the outpouring of support has swayed the board to have the mountain loops replaced with extra Unitrack. Tonight I got enough R414 to do the canyon line. Still need double straights but that donation eliminates a V11 set and using half of it.

 

Now I'm on a quest for a DCC plan so that we can still run DC.

 

DCC will come from Digitrax because they give a one time deal to clubs.

 

Zephyr Dcs51, 5-DS64, PR3, Ps14 power supplies,maybe block detection.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Simplified the DCC-DC plan.

 

A DPDT switch will intercept each DC controller to prevent a DC DCC disaster.

 

A dedicated Kato power pack will control the Kato switch remotes. It's track power plug will be unusable (from the outside). No decoders to confuse the already confused.

 

Will still use a DCC starter set and Pr3 to utilize dcc and wifi apps.

[KenS]

Can you say more about the DC-DCC plan?

 

If this is going to be a club layout operated by many people, you need to pay particular attention to making it "fail safe", so an unfamiliar operator can't destroy it. And the risks may not be obvious.

 

I did my layout with a DC-DCC pair of tracks and an A/B switch for each track, thinking I'd eliminated any risk.  Only to discover that a turnout set wrong could send a train from DC to DCC (or vice versa) and short the two together through a loco or lighted cab car. Thankfully I realized that before I blew anything up.

 

As much as I like having a DC track for breaking in new trains and to allow operation of unconverted trains, I'm strongly considering making it totally independent of the rest of the layout (no turnouts between them and no way to mix DC & DCC on the two tracks if I keep a crossover between them, or maybe just no crossover).

 

The more I think on it, the more I believe that the advice on not mixing DC and DCC on the same layout is really, really, good advice.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Maybe I should only set up DC/DCC on the double track then to avoid disasters on the small loops.

Yes we are dealing with members that will blindly turn on a layout in a hurry, crank up the controllers and expect instant and durable results. How an old donated locomotive is expected to run near full bore for hours on end is beyond me.

 

One double pole double throw switch per track per DC controller can isolate the DC controller from tbe DCC controller. Both controllers are wired to tbe dpdt switch. Physically no way DC and DCC controllers can power the same track. The DCC controller will get locked into the office. Both of our new DC controllers from last Christmas are gone.

 

May times I'm the only one there during open house so I have no problem going under the table and making a cable switch. Wiring this layout like a giant Ntrak module is sounding pretty good. At my ntrak club we have a specific cable set that includes an odd color just for DC and its obviously labeled.

 

Would you recommend a knife style switch so a person has to physically move the handle and not bump it or flip it to see what happens?

[KenS]

I don't see a problem with the A/B DPDT switches themselves, that sounds like the same approach I have, where you're either in DC or DCC modes of operation at the controls for a given track.  You do need to be sure to use a break-before-make on-off-on switch (or on-on if it's clearly marked as break-before-make) so you don't get an internal short in the switch itself. The problem that's left is if one track is DC and the other DCC.

 

Thus the risk is on the layout, and a knife switch to reinforce the "which mode am I in?" answer doesn't help there (or, at least, I don't see how it would).

 

If the whole layout is either DC or DCC at a given time, that removes the risk the front crossover poses (from your plan, that's the only risk point I see other than a major derailment). But if one track is DC and the other DCC, there's a problem at any turnout that connects them, or at any crossing (90-degree, etc), but you don't have those per your trackplan.

 

If you're willing to go with either/or, a quad double-throw switch (4PDT, somtimes also QPDT) that switches both rails of both lines to either DCC or a pair of DC packs, then you avoid risk at the crossover of bridging the two systems. Quad switches are harder to find, but Digikey (for example) lists 69 on-off-on 4PDT switches, 13 of them toggle switches rated for DCC voltages, so they do exist. They seem a bit pricy though ($13 was the cheapest, and most several times that).

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Quad. Very good point Ken.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Few pictures of my amateur custom Unitrack.

 

First attempt was on Kato R480. Needed a half length curve. Second attempt was virtually flawless (not shown). Little finessing with the scalpel.

 

Ended up soldering the outside rails for security. The solder is mirror perfect. The picture makes it looks old and subpar.

 

Making custom length straight track is a breeze. Many times fitment issues are a result of how the rail is cut. Too short is better than tight. You can fill the pot holes with 0.020X 0.020 styrene square rods. Didn't have to do any of that.

 

Last pic is of how I decided to run concrete track next to the #6 switch. Made an executive decision since I needed 2 of these pieces and didn't want to waste track. Filling inbeween the 2 tracks with local sand.

 

The double track was cut in half with a razor saw. What really should have been done if it was my layout is make to cut along the support line to one side. This will fill most of the gap between the switch and straight.

 

There will be plenty of local sand covering everything so what is seen today, will be gone tomorrow.