Advice needed for a newbie - Tomix & Kato tracks & control system

[JR 500系]

Hi all!

 

Firstly, sorry for being a complete noob but i tried searching the forum but couldnt find an answer to these little queries i have in mind... Appreciate if someone can enlighten me on this:

 

1) In Singapore, the voltage is 230-240V. Is it ok to plug in the adaptor of the Tomix control system directly? I saw in the picture that input = 240V, output = 12V (which is the voltage for running N guage trains), so i reckon that is fine, is it?

 

2) I'm using (or rather started on) Tomix tracks and layout, with a starter set, hence i do have Tomix tracks and control box. The question is, i've read Kato and Tomix tracks cannot combine with each other, but can be done so using a connector piece. What about the voltage/ current running through them? Is there any problems with mixing Tomix & Kato tracks together and running them using the Tomix control system, or vice versa?

 

3) Can a train, for example, made by Kato, run on Tomix tracks using Tomix control system? Or Vice versa, a Tomix train run on Kato Tracks using Kato control system?

 

4) How many control systems are requried to run various trains? (Ok that sounds wierd...) Or rather, do i need a control system for every train i run?

 

Thank you in advance for guiding a newbie into his brand new world of N guage Japanese trains!

[disturbman]

I think you must have over looked some threads in your search because I'm sure some of your questions (like 1 to 3) are answered in here: http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,2032.0.html

 

;)

[hectorton]

N500,

 

A response from another noob,

 

1)  I will leave this response to someone more experience from a country with the same voltage you have.  I would suggest you hold off plugging the unit into an outlet until you have a definitive response.  I know Japan Voltage in 100V, 50hz.

 

2) I am personally using a mixture.  Kato track for trains and Tomix track for Trams.  Yes there is a connector piece (kato Unitrack 20-045).  I use a Tomix throttle for the the Tomix part of the layout and the Kato Throttle for the Kato part of the layout.  Because they each have proprietary connectors to the track.  However, I am sure they could be jury rigged if you wanted to use one with the other.

 

3) Yes.  Any of the N scale trains made by any of the Japanese manufactures (Kato, Tomix, Micro Ace, Modemo, Etc.) can be run on a competitors track system.  However, I do not know if this is also true between N scale Japanese trains/track and or other European Asian manufacturers.

 

4)  This depends on your layout configuration.  My layout has two independent Kato track lines (each controlled with their own Kato throttle), one Tomix tram line (Tomix throttle), and one Tomytec Bus System (battery operated).  Also as a noob, I don't know much about DCC, but believe that with DCC you only need one source of power/throttle to operate as many trains as you want independently.  I more experienced modeler will probably provide greater detail on this issue.  

[Densha]

I'm also not 100% sure about my answers, I'm just describing my own experiences.

The voltage here is also around 230V, so I have a transformer unit between the outlet and the adapter of my Kato controller that changes the voltage from 230V to 110V. I use one made for American devices in Europe, because the US and Japan use the same plugs. I don't know which plug Singapore uses, but be sure to look at that too.

All N-scale trains can run on N-scale tracks from any manufacturer, there could be an exception, but assume that any train will run on Kato or Tomix tracks, especially Japanese models, but all other models probably too.

You have one controller on one layout, so there may not be two controllers connected to one layout (if you do you can ruin your hardware). If you have a separate layout that isn't connected with the other one, then you have to use a second controller because it (obviously) won't get any power otherwise.

[Martijn Meerts]

1. depends on the power pack. Some can handle any input voltage and output 12 volts, others can only handle the input input voltage of the Japanese power network. I have a Tomix controller, for which, being in Europe, I needed to buy a step-down converter to go form 220 to 110, and from Euro power plug to Japanese.

 

2. N-scale track from all manufacturers can theoretically be mixed. Sometimes you need to make your own custom transition pieces though. Electrically, they're all the same. It's not like 1 brand of track has a different voltage compared to another.

 

3. As long as the track is 9mm (which is the N-scale standard), any train from any brand worldwide can run on any N-scale track. The exceptions are old trains with huge wheel flanges running on something like Peco or Atlas code 55 track.

 

Something to be careful with, is using a Tomix power pack with the CL (constant lighting) feature, which can cause problems with some trains.

 

4. With regular DC, you control the voltage of the track, which generally means you can only run 1 train independently on a loop of track. With power routing turnouts and the likes, you can add some variety there, but it's limited.

 

With DCC, you can run as many trains as you like, limited only by the size of the layout really.. Of course, DCC has it's set of issues with Japanese models, mainly the fact that none of them come with DCC pre-installed, and most of them need soldering skills to install decoders ;)

[JR 500系]

Wow!

 

Firstly, apologises for missing that topic!

 

Thanks guys for all the helpful advices! Will definately assist me in my purchases of the trains to build up my diorama ~

 

Now i understand what the DCC does... All you guys are so knowledgeable in this! Cheers!

[Martijn Meerts]

DCC has a LOT of advantages, but the cost, and the relative difficulty of installing decoders in the Japanese trains are fairly big hurdles. If you're handy with a soldering iron, the installs are in many cases fairly straightforward.

 

As for the cost.. The initial cost can be quite steep (for example, I paid some 600 Euro for the ESU ECoS, although, that is a really nice bit of gear :)), but the additional cost will get you :)

 

I've been collecting Japanese trains for quite a few years now, and have well over 100 trains. Since I never had a layout that can run them (building one now) I never bothered installing decoders. If I want to convert all my trains now, I'm looking at about 25-30 euro per decoder. Locomotive only need 1, but most EMU/DMU/Shinkansen need 3 or even 4 decoders. With my current collection, I'll need around 200 decoders ;)

 

 

If you're only just getting started though, I would definitely recommended having a look at DCC, and see if that's a direction you'd be interested going in.

[Densha]

DCC has a LOT of advantages, but the cost, and the relative difficulty of installing decoders in the Japanese trains are fairly big hurdles. If you're handy with a soldering iron, the installs are in many cases fairly straightforward.

 

As for the cost.. The initial cost can be quite steep (for example, I paid some 600 Euro for the ESU ECoS, although, that is a really nice bit of gear :)), but the additional cost will get you :)

I know that certain resellers in The Netherlands sell the Multimaus from Roco/Fleischmann for about €100 including the controller, booster and transformer (so a complete set). I presume that it works fine with Japanese models. Just to let you know that it doesn't have to cost enormous amounts of money, though it's still more than with usual DC. The model trains themselves also need a decoder of course, and it costs about €20 here (or €25-30 like Martijn said, I don't know the prices exactly). I have no idea if any DCC stuff is available in Singapore and/or how much money internet shops ask though.

 

I've been collecting Japanese trains for quite a few years now, and have well over 100 trains. Since I never had a layout that can run them (building one now) I never bothered installing decoders. If I want to convert all my trains now, I'm looking at about 25-30 euro per decoder. Locomotive only need 1, but most EMU/DMU/Shinkansen need 3 or even 4 decoders. With my current collection, I'll need around 200 decoders ;)

Over... hundred... trains... *drools*

 

Actually the main advantage is that you can run multiple trains on one track or switch between them easily without having to get them off the track. Of course there are lots more advantages, like continuous headlights, the possibility of sound effects (not much supported by the models though), and optional computer control. But if you just want to drive with some trains in a loop, it's not worth it in my opinion.

[JR 500系]

OVer a hundren trains???    :angel9: 

 

Heavenly Martijn! I only have 4 now...   

 

Thanks for the advices Martijn & Densha! HHmmm would seriously have to look into DCC... space is a constraint hence being able to run multiple trains on a single layout will definately help... Then again i suck at soldering so it might take a VERY long time for me to set it up...

 

Densha has a point too.. If i am going to control this hobby (unlike Lego which i obviously over-shot in purchases), i might only have less than 10 train running, hence DC might be more affordable for me... Then again, the DC trottles are not cheap too... Oh what a dilema and difficult choice to make...  X_X

[nik_n_dad]

have well over 100 trains.

 

Yeah, I think we're about double that (in engines or emu sets).  There's two three several problems with DCC.  The biggest was that it seemed when we switched over to DCC our train buying went nutty.  Part of it is being able to (easily) run multiple trains.  Even on the temporary table-top "layout" Nik and I can 4-5 trains at a time.  Martiijn is right though, it gets pricey (in terms of money and time) fast when you put 3 decoders into one train set.

[Martijn Meerts]

Densha, there are (much) cheaper DCC systems other than the ECoS of course, it really all depends on what features you want. The Multimaus for example can't connect to a computer directly, so you'll need an interface for that, and you'll likely need additional devices adding extra cost. The ECoS has everything already built-in. Choosing a digital system really depends on what you need, how far you want to take it, and (local) availability. The ECoS I bought local, because a device with that price tag I want to be able to return to the shop easily when needed :)

 

 

N500, the best would be if you could go and play, or least look at, a digital controlled layout. I've had both DC and DCC layout, and to be honest, I wouldn't even consider going back to DC, even for smaller layouts (with exceptions, like a modular t-trak layout built by various people ;)) Most of the EMU/DMU/shinkansen are fairly easy to convert actually, and if you're not comfortable with soldering in decoders, there are plenty people willing to help you with that, if you don't mind shipping your trains to someone :)

 

 

As for the number of trains (I actually only guesstimated Japanese N-scale, I have a bunch of other stuff as well :)), I've been collecting for quite a few years, and there are people here who've been collecting even longer than me, and have many more of them. Also, until not long ago, I didn't have the space to build a layout, so I just kept buying and collecting trains. Now that I have a dedicated room for a layout, most train funds are going towards tools, materials, track, servos, stationary decoders and whatever's needed to build the layout.

[Densha]

Heavenly Martijn! I only have 4 now...   

Don't worry, my collection exists of only 1 train too. I'm even jealous of you now.

I've been reading upon model trains for years, also on DCC, and when I finally thought about making a layout, I decided to change to Japanese model trains. Not that all that reading was wasted, rather the opposite. So I know quite a few things about model trains, but haven't done much with them (yet) unfortunately. I haven't bought a lot of stuff and haven't made a layout either, but if all's going well then I will make the T-Trak project my first. I expect to ruin my first module(s) though, but I have it learn it someway. Not that my story fits in this topic now, but whatever.

 

N500, the best would be if you could go and play, or least look at, a digital controlled layout. I've had both DC and DCC layout, and to be honest, I wouldn't even consider going back to DC, even for smaller layouts (with exceptions, like a modular t-trak layout built by various people ;)) Most of the EMU/DMU/shinkansen are fairly easy to convert actually, and if you're not comfortable with soldering in decoders, there are plenty people willing to help you with that, if you don't mind shipping your trains to someone :)

I haven't had DCC myself, but my grandparents have, and when using that it's much more fun since there's a lot more to watch to. But if you have a small single track layout with just a few switches, it's quite useless because you will not drive more than one train at a time.

 

As for the number of trains (I actually only guesstimated Japanese N-scale, I have a bunch of other stuff as well :)), I've been collecting for quite a few years, and there are people here who've been collecting even longer than me, and have many more of them. Also, until not long ago, I didn't have the space to build a layout, so I just kept buying and collecting trains. Now that I have a dedicated room for a layout, most train funds are going towards tools, materials, track, servos, stationary decoders and whatever's needed to build the layout.

You always make me curious with your stories, but you never post a single picture. I want to see that collection of yours you know!

[Martijn Meerts]

Densha, I actually posted a whole bunch of pictures of the layout we were building in the old house (and form the one before that one), but it wasn't a Japanese layout, and most my trains couldn't run on it due to the tight Minitrix curves ;)

 

I've gotten my yard to a point where I can (and have :)) put a bunch of trains on it. Not all of them, and not in their entirety, but I'll soon-ish (this weekend probably) have pictures of my shinkansen fleet getting their first yard track time (albeit in a very stationary manner ;))

[JR 500系]

Thanks for the advices Martijn & Densha!

 

Yippe! My first starter set, which i have been waiting very long for, has finally arrived! 

 

 

With this, i finally have a trottle to try out and finally get a clear picture of what you guys are talking about. Had a trial run with my Tsubame, JR-321 and of course, the 500 Nozomi! Now i understand why DCC is more convinent...

 

I seriously doubt with my pathetic skills i can DCC a train... To be frank, i was looking at Tomix trains + tracks all along, as i had a concept that Tomix tracks and trains are slightly cheaper than Kato's, and offer more variety in trains. However, until i recently saw a very beautiful Kato train here:

 

 

I really really wanted it! My wife would love this train! Hence immediately more queries came up with regards to Tomix & Kato tracks & trottle... Thanks to you guys, i'm clear now! And of course, i bought that train! 

 

Yes! Would love to see both MArtijn & Densha's layout and trains! Await the pictures soon!

 

*p.s. Is it ok for me to start a thread for my purchases? as i was thinking it would be nice to document my start up from scratch to the completed layout throughout the years, and slowly sit back to read and view the thread thinking of the good old days... *

[Martijn Meerts]

N500, the 500 series is a lovely train, really something else to look at ;) A word of caution btw, once you get started with painted trains (like the Kato), it's hard to let go  

 

And feel free to start a thread in the Personal Projects part of the forum, that's where more of us are posting our layout progress (or lack of progress ;))

 

My 'layout' is currently no more than some turnouts and a few lengths of straight track, as can be seen here: http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,3687.msg67543.html#msg67543

[Densha]

Densha, I actually posted a whole bunch of pictures of the layout we were building in the old house (and form the one before that one), but it wasn't a Japanese layout, and most my trains couldn't run on it due to the tight Minitrix curves ;)

 

I've gotten my yard to a point where I can (and have :)) put a bunch of trains on it. Not all of them, and not in their entirety, but I'll soon-ish (this weekend probably) have pictures of my shinkansen fleet getting their first yard track time (albeit in a very stationary manner ;))

I have a bad experience with tight Minitrix curves too. Of course I meant pictures of your Japanese trains, or did you place Japanese trains on your old layout? I'm relatively new on this forum, so there's a big chance I've missed that topic.

 

That's the first step I guess. I bet you're looking forward to that too!

 

 

I seriously doubt with my pathetic skills i can DCC a train... To be frank, i was looking at Tomix trains + tracks all along, as i had a concept that Tomix tracks and trains are slightly cheaper than Kato's, and offer more variety in trains.

I don't know about prices, but I find Kato tracks looking better personally. Tomix tracks look even more plastic and shiny to me, but that could also be because I've never seen it in person. Also consider that Tomix has no support for DCC at all (please correct me if I'm wrong) and that many Kato trains (some commuter trains, locos and (almost) all Shinkansen, with exception of old trains) have actually space to put a decoder in, so that you only have to open up a a little cover and put the decoder in it, you don't have to hassle with solder and wires in that case. If you're afraid of damaging your train, then it's maybe even better not to do it yourself.

 

However, until i recently saw a very beautiful Kato train here:

 

 

I really really wanted it! My wife would love this train! Hence immediately more queries came up with regards to Tomix & Kato tracks & trottle... Thanks to you guys, i'm clear now! And of course, i bought that train!  

I have something for special painted trains, the normal colors are sometimes so... normal and a bit boring.

 

Yes! Would love to see both MArtijn & Densha's layout and trains! Await the pictures soon!

I would love to see it myself too! ;)

 

*p.s. Is it ok for me to start a thread for my purchases? as i was thinking it would be nice to document my start up from scratch to the completed layout throughout the years, and slowly sit back to read and view the thread thinking of the good old days... *

If you want to do it from the start why not ask if someone could transfer this topic to the "Personal Projects" forum? Or just start a new topic indeed.

[Kabutoni]

Yes! Would love to see both MArtijn & Densha's layout and trains! Await the pictures soon!

I would love to see it myself too! ;)

With our powers combined...

[The_Ghan]

Hi N500,

 

Please see my comments in blue.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

Hi all!

 

Firstly, sorry for being a complete noob but i tried searching the forum but couldnt find an answer to these little queries i have in mind... Appreciate if someone can enlighten me on this:

 

1) In Singapore, the voltage is 230-240V. Is it ok to plug in the adaptor of the Tomix control system directly? I saw in the picture that input = 240V, output = 12V (which is the voltage for running N guage trains), so i reckon that is fine, is it?  I have two Tomix track sets that came with controllers that accept 240v - Tomix 90945 My Plan NR II Track Set & Tomix 90946 My Plan DX II Track Set.  They are both working fine on 240v in Australia.

 

2) I'm using (or rather started on) Tomix tracks and layout, with a starter set, hence i do have Tomix tracks and control box. The question is, i've read Kato and Tomix tracks cannot combine with each other, but can be done so using a connector piece. What about the voltage/ current running through them? Is there any problems with mixing Tomix & Kato tracks together and running them using the Tomix control system, or vice versa?  In my opinion you've started with the superior product anyway.  I don't know why you would want to change or combine but, as others have said, Kato make a track joiner for this purpose.  You should know that Tomix has a lower, more realistic profile than Kato as well.  I spent a lot of time researching track before committing to Tomix.  The big plus for Kato is availability outside Japan but, for me, online shopping eliminates the advantage.

 

3) Can a train, for example, made by Kato, run on Tomix tracks using Tomix control system? Or Vice versa, a Tomix train run on Kato Tracks using Kato control system? Yes, but only Tomix trains can take advantage of the TCS features of Tomix controllers, such as independent lighting control.  I don't use the TCS anyway.  I have purchased trains made by Kato (45% of my collection), Tomix (35%), MicroAce (18%) and Modemo (2% on order) for a variety of reasons.  Originally, I was buying Kato because of availability, price, and ease of installing decoders in some models.  Generally, the quality of Tomix is superior and more likely to be prototypical and some of their models have power couplers enabling the whole train to supply power to the motor car, so I buy more Tomix these days.  More Tomix models come with the TN couplers too, which I like over the knuckle couplers.  MicroAce has a variety of models not made by other manufacturers, but usually supplies models with knuckle couplers.  I bought a Modemo NP501 Odakyu 20000 Sayonara train just to one something made by them.  But they are the only company making the 20000 series and I do have a lot of Odakyu trains.  My point is, think about which brand you're buying each time you buy a train, whether it be price, convenience, authenticity of reproduction, etc., so long as you've thought things through because they're ALL going to work on a Tomix controller.

 

4) How many control systems are requried to run various trains? (Ok that sounds wierd...) Or rather, do i need a control system for every train i run?  In DC (direct current) you basically need one controller for each train you want to run and you need to isolate sections of track to individual controllers.  This leads to modellers having a number of loops, each running a single train on its own controller.  Obviously, buy the time you purchase 3-4 controllers you've spent a similar amount of money as on a basic DCC (digital system where the track supplies a fixed 12v AC current) system.  With a DCC system such as the Digitrax Zepyyr (entry level) you can comfortably run about a dozen trains, with several sharing the one "loop".  In fact, because of the power and flexibility of DCC, DCC modellers are more likely to move away from simple loops to more complex layouts of sidings and terminals, etc.

 

Thank you in advance for guiding a newbie into his brand new world of N guage Japanese trains!

 

Before you go too far, spend a bit of time reading the stickies at the top of the DCC section.  They will answer most of your questions.

 

[JR 500系]

Thanks The_Ghan for the infomative info! Really helps me alot! Cheers man! So it seems unintentionally i've stepped into the more superior (and expensive?) track system indeed... I've read somewhere in the net that railway modellers often end up buying more trains than they ever need, and now i really start to understand... Even myself with just a simple round track layout now already having 4 trains... Really gotta control myself not to buy more in the long run and concentrate on layout instead... But i know, easier said than done...

 

Ok i'll be starting a thread on my introduction into N guage trains very soon in the personal projects thread. Cheers!