Absolute Newbie Question

[zeebar]

Hi Everyone

 

I am new to the forum, and my first impression is there a wealth of info here that will be very useful to me. I am jumping in and building a N scale layout after years working with HO scale. I am pretty sure that I want to use either Kato Or Tomix track system.

 

Can I ask what could a dumb question?

 

Both Tomix and Kato market track sets like V1 v12 and so on.

 

It seems to me that the cost of these sets seem to be greater that the sum of the track thats included.

 

For example I am interested in a overhead double track system, and have seen sets like Kato 20-820 set advertised at around US 150 to Us180, but looking at the part list the cost of the individual items would be no where near that.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Anyway interested to hear peoples experiences

 

Cheers

 

Zenon

[KenS]

Tomix gives you more options, Kato can be easier to find (nearly any hobby store will stock basic track pieces, unijoiners, etc) which can be helpful if you get caught short in the middle of assembling track.

 

As a general rule, Kato's M and V sets cost less than the equivalent track bought separately, but only if you actually need all the track in them. It can be more otherwise. You should evaluate your needs first, and then see what's cheapest.  Tomix is probably the same.

 

Did you mean 20-820, or something else? In the case of the N1 (20-820), you're probably comparing obsolete prices.  The N1 has been out of production for a long time, long enough to have totally disappeared from Kato Japan's English-language stock list. You may also be seeing people selling the N1 as a "collectors item" with inflated prices.

 

The M and V sets are the current sets.

 

Take the V11 (20-870) ground-level double track set, for example: it contains the following (Google translate) and costs $97.41 (current HS price in US $):

248mm WS248PC × 7 straight,

124mm WS124PC × 1 linear,

62mm WS62PC × 1 linear,

WS62FPC × 1 feeder line,

R414/381mm-45 ° WR414/381-45PC × 8 curve,

LWR414/381-22.5PCAL × 4 track approach line approach

RWR414/381-22.5PCAR × 4

accessories: Rirera ("rerailer"), and instruction manual, guide plan variation

 

To do the same with separate track, you'd need:

248mm WS248PC × 7 straight, (4x 20-004, total $32.48)

124mm WS124PC × 1 linear,  (1x 20-023, $6.23)

62mm WS62PC × 1 linear, (1x 20-042, $5.57)

WS62FPC × 1 feeder line,  (1x 20-043, $10.90)

R414/381mm-45 °  WR414/381-45PC × 8 curve,  (4x 20-181, $37.12)

LWR414/381-22.5PCAL × 4 track approach line approach, RWR414/381-22.5PCAR × 4 (1x 20-182, $5.80)

 

For a total of $98.10.  With the separate track you get some additional tracks (about $15 worth). With the set you get a "rerailer" (the blue ramp for putting trains on the track) and a manual. But the two are very close if you just want to build that dogbone shape.

 

Another advantage of the sets for a beginner is that you get all the parts.  If you bought V11 separately it would be easy to overlook the special feeder track or the "PCAR" approach tracks (which are level on one end and banked on the other to mate with the 20-181 curves). Of course many of the V sets aren't complete, and you need to check the track plans with them (or see the individual descriptions on the Kato stock list I linked; this may put you on a Japanese page for newer sets, so you'll need to use a translator) to know if it's supposed to be a complete loop or used with other sets.

[The_Ghan]

Hi zeebar,

 

Welcome to our forum. 

 

Before you purchase any track it is my advice that you consider the pros and cons of various track systems that are available.  For information on Tomix track you might take some time to read TrainWeb.  It has a very thorough explanation of Tomix track.  If you search this forum you will find a thread (somewhere) about the cross-sectional differences between Kato, Tomix and some European pre-balasted track.  Based on this information I decided to go Tomix about 18 months ago and I'm glad I did.  The only downside (in my opinion) is that the track is not generally stocked outside of Japan.  But there are several good online shops such as HobbySearch to buy from.

 

I bought several Tomix track sets and found that they were worthwhile - just.  The track sets of both Kato and Tomix are more directed towards the modular expansion of temporary layouts.  Because of space constraints in Japan many modellers lay a track on the floor for the weekend and pack it up when they're done.  If you look at the Kato and Tomix catalogs (which you should buy before committing to a track system) you'll see how combinations of sets form larger layouts.  Most of us in western countries however prefer to construct permanent custom or freeform layouts.  After buying 2 or 3 sets I turned to purchasing individual track.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Martijn Meerts]

For looks, I prefer Tomix track over Unitrack, but Unitrack is a bit more sturdy/reliable when it comes to temporary (floor) layouts. Tomix also has somewhat more variety in their assortment, although Kato has been adding/announcing new track. The only real disadvantage of both track systems is that they don't have flex track available. It's easy to connect a different brand of flex track to Tomix track though, and for Unitrack you either need the Unitrack to Finetrack piece, or you have to modify a piece of Unitrack to make it compatible with other track systems.

 

For permanent layouts, I prefer non-pre-ballasted track, because doing your own ballast looks better than any pre-ballasted track. Ballasting is a pain in the rear though 

 

 

As for the track sets, I only ever bought 1 set (Tomix elevated bridge approach set),  and the main advantage is that everything you need is in the package. All the pillars and risers etc. are included, things which are easy to forget when ordering separate pieces. 

[Tecchan]

Availability really depends on where you live. I'm from Switzerland and you don't find easily either Kato nor Tomix tracks. So this factor was out when I had to choose a system. (if you live in the USA, Kato would be the easiest to find, but lost of US based online stores have both brands).

 

I picked Tomix because the best starter set I found was a Tomix one.

That was what was advised to me: both are good, pick the one you like the most. :-)

[cteno4]

in the us we only have one shop, BTtrains that is stocking tomix track and thats only very recently. before them, pretty much zippo for tomix track. until now kato has been the big seller because many local hobby shops and many online shops carried unitrak because there is KatoUSA. Tomix has never tried to really export their products. some shops have imported some tomix items, but usually thru a japanese distributor in their own channel they set up (mokei imports here in the us for years until he recently retired).

 

it will be interesting to see if having a supplier in the us for tomix track will now increase its popularity now.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[The_Ghan]

Availability really depends on where you live. I'm from Switzerland and you don't find easily either Kato nor Tomix tracks. So this factor was out when I had to choose a system. (if you live in the USA, Kato would be the easiest to find, but lost of US based online stores have both brands).

 

I picked Tomix because the best starter set I found was a Tomix one.

That was what was advised to me: both are good, pick the one you like the most. :-)

 

Kumo,

 

It wasn't the Tomix 90152 - 0 Series Shinkansen set, was it?  That's the world's best starter set IMHO.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[zeebar]

Hello all

 

Firstly thanks to everyone who has replied to my first post on this forum.

 

You all have given me some really usefull Information.

 

 

Just a bit about me. 

 

I am from Australia and have comeback to the Hobby in the last two years having dabbled some twenty years ago

 

Over the last couple of years I have built a large HO digital layout , mainly European outline. My kids have convinced me to build a N scale layout and  looking forward to the challenge.

 

Im looking to make it digital and lucky enough to have a good system that works well with

all scales. i am no expert in DCC but have learn t a lot and am very happy to share with those

are looking to jump to the digital world.

 

The responses you have all given me pretty much confirms my thoughts on Tomix and Kato.

 

 

The Kato Track is easier to find, But the Tomix has a much better range of points/turnouts

 

compared with the basic ones kato produce.

 

I have Just found a great store in Germany that stock both so....

 

 

... Next question already

 

 

Has anyone had any good/ bad experiences with Tomix/Kato turnouts in a digital layout?

 

Ill be using Lenz/Veissmann accessory decoders combined with DCC concepts Masterswitch. This combination works well on my HO

 

Any Comments appreciated

 

Cheers

 

Zeebar

[disturbman]

Australia <-> Germany

 

You would be better off ordering directly from Japan.

[Martijn Meerts]

The regular accessory decoders won't work well with Tomix/Kato turnouts, because they use a single coil rather than the more standard dual coil. (Kato and Tomix turnouts only have 2 wires, whereas most others have 3) .

 

There are various decoders specifically for Kato turnouts, and those will work with Tomix as well. The 6-output Lenz accessory decoder can also be adjusted fairly easily for use with Kato/Tomix turnouts, just requires you to cut a copper trace and solder in 2 diodes.

[Tecchan]

Availability really depends on where you live. I'm from Switzerland and you don't find easily either Kato nor Tomix tracks. So this factor was out when I had to choose a system. (if you live in the USA, Kato would be the easiest to find, but lost of US based online stores have both brands).

 

I picked Tomix because the best starter set I found was a Tomix one.

That was what was advised to me: both are good, pick the one you like the most. :-)

 

Kumo,

 

It wasn't the Tomix 90152 - 0 Series Shinkansen set, was it?  That's the world's best starter set IMHO.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

You have a good memory my friend, it was exactly this one.

I wanted a Shinkansen I and thought (and still think) that a 3 or 4 cars Shinkansen doesn't look good. This is a 6 cars set and I come with more than a simple oval: a passover and and elevated station.

[Martijn Meerts]

Even the box of that starter set looks good =)

[The_Ghan]

Even the box of that starter set looks good =)

 

You're right Martijn, it does!

 

BTW, the Digitrax DS64 works fine with Tomix and Kato switches.  It is easy to configure for 2-wire operation.  Rather than cut the Tomix proprietary connectors off the end of the points, I use a PCB board with a row of edge pins (which the Tomix plug fits nicely into) and wire the PCB board to the DS64.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[zeebar]

Hi Martijn

 

Thanks for the info on the dc turnout motors...I wasnt aware of that.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Zeebar

[Tecchan]

Even the box of that starter set looks good =)

 

I'm quite sad I had to throw it away before leaving Fukuoka... :-(

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Kato Flexible Track 21-000

 

It all depends on the type of skills you have, time, and look of your layout that you are after.

 

I was advised to buy Kato trains and so I started buying their track as well.

 

Being in a club makes it easier to decide based on other's experiences.

 

Going with the modular track like Kato unitrack has 3 major advantages and this is why I am using Kato over any other. Availability, repeatability, looks.

 

As with any model hobby, repeatability is key to a happy experience.

 

Flexible track continues to flex with changes in humidity and temperature. It's the wood below it that expands and contracts. The track can move, even buckle around bridges over canyons.

 

Modular tracks have plastic bases so there is no significant expansion and contraction. Plus there are gaps between the track pieces.

[nik_n_dad]

We're still with kato unitrack, even on the perm layout.  I originally was going to do Nik's new layout in Atlas flextrack, but once I started dabbling with it, I realized that by the time I got the cork down, got the track down, soldered all the feeders, mounted and aligned the tortoise turnout motors, wired the tortoises, ballasted the track and aged the rail a bit, I would be playing with Nik's kids, not him.  The kato unitrack shaves months (for me, years) of work off a layout.  With just a little ballast on the sides and a little aging on the rails, all the rest of the scenery, it's pretty decent, and it's rock solid. 

 

It really depends on what you like to do and spend time on.  Just like the people that hand-lay track, build their own turnouts and scratch-build structures, Nik and I would rather do scenic-ing and playing with trains.

 

Of course YMMV on anything I've said.

[The_Ghan]

Ahh ....

 

I had been searching for this: quinntopia's comparison between Fleischmann, Tomix and Kato pre-ballasted track.  quinn's analysis here largely influenced my decision to go for Tomix track, along with the TrainWeb site. 

 

Fleischmann track is just too expensive here in Australia.  That left Kato and Tomix, both a similar price when sourced from Japan.  For me, the lower profile of the Tomix track made a big difference, making it easier to blend into adjoining scenery.  The greater range of Tomix parts also counted.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[inobu]

Ghan,

 

I have to agree with you on the Kato track. I was ok with the track initially but after a while the height and ballast started sticking out. I researched ballast photos and came to the conclusion that lower profile track allowed for truer ballasting.

 

I started experimenting with the pink foam and found that it was easier to trench the track level and fill in the edges.

 

It makes it look a lot better. Filling in color ballast toward the ties will allow for that gradient look. I have not added the ballast but you can see where it will fill in, in the photo. 

 

[smg id=1384]

 

Because I have all Kato stuff I have to use what I got.

Inobu

[zeebar]

Hey Ghan

 

Thanks for the the excellent link...heaps of good stuff to find there.  I like the Fleischmann Track as well. IMHO Its the most realistic, has flex track available, good selection of points and turnouts, but the downside is its cost and pretty fragile after a while (rails separting from the ties, and points failing. Their Ho stuff is bullet proof ...pity the N doesnt match up).

 

 

It looks like ill go down the Tomix path on the strength of the variety of their turnouts. Double slips/ curved and three way allow you to do much so more in smaller areas. Maybe Ill use some Kato for the elevated sections of the layout as there seems to be good value sets available.

 

 

Cheers

[Bernard]

Inobu - I like the results you got with trenching the Kato track.....but what is your secret to keeping the trenching level, since you are cutting a narrow groove into the foam....did you use a router to keep it level?

 

Ghan,

 

 

I started experimenting with the pink foam and found that it was easier to trench the track level and fill in the edges.

 

It makes it look a lot better. Filling in color ballast toward the ties will allow for that gradient look. I have not added the ballast but you can see where it will fill in, in the photo. 

 

[smg id=1384]

 

 

 

[inobu]

Zeebar,

 

Do a mock up of your layout first and then go after the track. That way you can see what its going to take and if things will work. The paper is cheaper than the track and time and effort. If it does not pan out you can easily make adjustments.

 

What you see in your mind is different in layout form.

 

Good Luck and enjoy.

 

Inobu  

[inobu]

Inobu - I like the results you got with trenching the Kato track.....but what is your secret to keeping the trenching level, since you are cutting a narrow groove into the foam....did you use a router to keep it level?

 

Yes, instead of hi jacking Zeebar's thread I'll start another one about this process.

 

Inobu

 

 

here is the link http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,5805.0.html