Wiring a Kato EMU Cab Car

[biggulz]

Happy day after Thanksgiving all. Today I spent time installing the Digitrax DZ125s into the two motor cars (10-911 Senseki Line and 10-922 Mangattan Liner). After much trial and error I finally got the DCS51 figured out (problem 1 - for some reason I could not program on the main line --- and problem 2 - when I tried to program the Mangattan Liner loco address to 22 the DCS51 sent it flying around the track even with the brake on.....set it back to address 03 for now as that seems to work appropriately)

 

and I have to say --- I would not have tackled this project if not for the fantastic support from this forum.

 

As soon as I got finished with the motor cars I was delighted to find my order from NGDCC in the mailbox (11 days via Airmail). So now I can wire up the 4 cab cars but maybe that"s tomorrows project! I also installed the 11-211 lights in these cars (2 motor and 2 non cab) ..... seems to be brighter but the thing I noticed is no flicker running on the DCC track.

[kmcsjr]

Ghan: Each positive leg of one led is soldered together with negative leg of the other led. That's how only one led is lit on at the same time, and changing polarity (as in DC) changes the illuminated led.

 

Biggulz: With this polarity changing capable decoder you have to do almost nothing!!

 

That's the easiest way I see to install it:

- Isolate this circuit from the metal strips that pick up current from the wheels (with a piece of insulating tape).

- Solder white wire to one of the legs and yellow to the other (those legs of the circuit I remarked with an arrow in my last picture of the previous post).

- Solder black and red wires to any point of the metal strips taking current from the wheels to feed decoder.

 

Remember black wire goes to the left wheels and red wire to right wheels. If led are not illuminated in correct direction of travel, change white and yellow wire (well, test it before soldering better...  )

 

Cheers,

 

Dani

 

Folks

I am planning on trying to put DCC in 10-449 165 Series Moonlight. It looks like I can put a Z2 in the motor car and easily hide it. The lights are more confusing to me. UNLESS, I am reading this post properly :), then it is easy. It looks like I can  use TCS FL4s, in both cars. Provided I wire the pickups properly, I will be able to have proper lighting, by following these instructions. Am I missing something? Thank you!

[Dani]

I have no experience with TCS decoders, but assuming these decoders can switch the polarity of the outputs, installation is straight.

 

If you have any doubts before starting just post a picture or schema to validate it.

 

Go ahead!!!!

 

Dani.

[Dani]

Hi,

 

Forgive me to recover this old post, but I found a schema in a DCX76z decoder manual (from Telecktronic) explaining how to connect this decoder (which hasn't bipolar outputs) to "anti parallel" front and rear leds, exactly as most of our cab cars. (http://www.tran.at/Dokumentation/DCX76z.pdf)

 

I was wondering if this schema is valid for all "non bipolar" decoders and if I well understood it (I don't speak German). In this way I could use some non bipolar decoders I have without desoldering and flipping one of the leds, and two micro resistors of 1kOhm don't need much more space...

 

Thanks,

Dani.

[The_Ghan]

Dani,

 

What decoder do you want to use?

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Dani]

What decoder do you want to use?

 

I have two Uhlenbrok 73410 and two Digitrax TF4, but if it is a general solution for any function decoder may be I use it for cab cars. It's difficult to find in Spain dual polarity decoders, they become expensive due to shipping costs.

[The_Ghan]

Dani,

 

I can't speak for the Uhlenbrok 73410 because I've never used that brand.

 

With regard to Digitrax TF4:  This is one product that I really think Digitrax got wrong.  I bought a dozen of these myself, before I learned that they have several deficiencies:

1. They won't do dimming;

2. They don't auto-reverse;

3. They're not bi-polar. 

 

For me, the ideal cab decoder has all of the above features AND transponding.  Digitrax won't admit any of this is a problem either.  I'm sorely disappointed.  Keitaro has suggested a work around, which I AM planning to try sometime soon:

 

Use a motor decoder, such as the DZ123 or DN135 (both about $16) and set Vstart to an appropriate voltage for dimmed and Vnid Vmax to the right voltage for full illumination.  Wire the motor wires to the lighting board inputs.  There may be several other settings to play with as well. 

 

This is keitaro's "theoretical" solution and I haven't tried it ... but it might just work!

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Dani]

I fully agree with you Ghan, I'm also really disappointed with Digitrax decoders and will never buy another TF4. May be TF1 just for car lighting would be possible because it's really cheap, but it's missing the dimming function. And I'm really angry with the shop where I bought them, because I explained perfectly the use of the deco and he said nothing about the missing auto-reverse function. I think is something basic for cab and tail lights......

 

But I could use Doehler & Haass, Zimo or Uhlenbrock decoders because they are more available in my country and cheaper. The only missing functionality is bi-polar outputs. That's why I wanted to check if the previous electrical schema is a solution for all these decoders.

 

Thanks!

Dani.

[Martijn Meerts]

I don't know enough about electronics anymore, but it does look like the schematic might do the trick, but I'm not too certain. There's a reason manufacturers have started doing bi-polar decoders (other than wanting to make more money ;))

 

Are Lenz decoders easy to get in Spain? The newer Lenz Silver+ mini decoders can be used as function decoder, using the 2 motor outputs as a bi-polar output for light boards that are hard to modify. They're not the cheapest decoders, and I'd personally only use them when no other option is (easily) doable, but it's worth a shot. Just make sure you get decoders with the newest firmware installed.

[CaptOblivious]

What decoder do you want to use?

 

I have two Uhlenbrok 73410 and two Digitrax TF4, but if it is a general solution for any function decoder may be I use it for cab cars. It's difficult to find in Spain dual polarity decoders, they become expensive due to shipping costs.

 

No, in general, it won't work, at least not well. I've been down this road, trust me :) The problem is that a) you still have the resistor on the circuit board, which will reduce the brightness and b) the LEDs will now be half as bright anyway, because they will have one end effectively connected to the DCC circuit, which is AC. Combine both of these, and you get some awfully dim LEDs. Plus those 1K resistors? They need to be at least 1/2W, which means they will be quite large.

 

Once you've gone through all that trouble, you'll find it was actually much easier to just cut up the circuit to wire it up properly and have something that works nice and bright.

 

That's my opinion.

 

Now, all that said, my company Railstars is working on a bi-polar decoder that will do exactly what you want. Still in R&D, hope to have it on the market in time for Christmas. If you can wait that long ;)

[The_Ghan]

Cap'n

 

Your opinion is actually fact.  Plus, the LEDs will flicker.  Perhaps not noticeable to the naked eye, but video would probably pick it up.

 

As you know, I'm a Digitrax man at heart.  However, I'd like to know more about your bipolar project.  Will it have dimming?  Can I set dimming to occur in relation to a particular step on the speed table so that they dim as the train approaches the station and only go bright once the train has actually left? 

 

If a speed table relationship can't be established then manual control should be provided on the CV.  Eg: 0=Off 1=on 2=dim.  That way I can handle it manually or through TrainController.

 

I'm now thinking of throwing good money after bad and installing your decoder beside the TF4 and using the TF4 for transponding only.

 

I suggest that to get market penetration you minimise functions on the decoder.  You can always release another product with extra functions for in-car lighting, etc.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[The_Ghan]

... And I'm really angry with the shop where I bought them, because I explained perfectly the use of the deco and he said nothing about the missing auto-reverse function....

 

I wouldn't be angry with the shop, but I would go back and explain the limitations to them.  Perhaps they just don't know.  Chances are they've just been advised that the TF4 is what's needed.

 

I've had heaps of help in the past from Digitrax, but in relation to cab decoders, the issues I mentioned earlier, and the TF series, their response has always been the same one-liner:

 

"We have no plans for bi-polar, auto-reversing, or dimming features.  The TF1 and TF4 are the appropriate products to use in cab cars.  They allow prototypical control over lighting.

 

To me, the TF series are the weak link in Digitrax product line-up.  The brief replies I recieve these days lead me to think that life is not all a bed of roses over at Digitrax.

 

I hope things improve on that front.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan