Koki container cars

[keiichi77]

Hi everyone, I am new to the form and would like some help. I am interested in getting into Japanese N gauge for a small freight layout, specifically Koki trains. After some searching I found out that there are many different types of Koki cars and was wondering a few things about them.

 

I am going to purchase a 5 car set of Kato Koki 5500 series cars.  I would like to run a train with a mixture of different types of Koki cars, but only if it is prototypical. All of the videos I have watched don't show a mixed variety of cars, usually a train had one or two locomotives and 10 to 20 Koki cars of the same series.

 

How long were the 5500 series cars in use, late 1980s 1990s etc?

Would you find them on a train with say 100 series koki cars or some other series at any point in time?

The Kato set i am looking at is only $55US for the 5 cars, which it rather cheap compared to other Koki sets I have seen...are these cars decent in quality/detail?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[CaptOblivious]

The 5500 are quite old, and I believe were retired a few decades ago. Modern stuff that might be run in a consist include 50000 (that's fiftythousand, not five-thousand), 250000, 35000, and 100 series. 200 series I guess might be mixed in as needed?

 

Glad to have another KOKI person here!

[keiichi77]

Thanks for the info CaptOblivious, I think I will pass on the Koki 5500 5 car set.  I will have to keep an eye out for some of the more modern stuff. What online store do you prefer for ordering Koki cars? Thanks again.

[CaptOblivious]

Good deals often crop up on ebay, but by and large I use the usual suspects. (See elsewhere for the list; I hope to do a FAQ on this topic soon)

[inobu]

I like freight stuff too. This is what I found.  I think the maximum shunt is 19 on the koki 104 and 106's and you don't much of a mixture of cars.

The Japanese rail/freight system is pretty much calculated and regimented so much of everything is standardized.

 

Here is a link to so good info. http://www.sumidacrossing.org/SumidaCrossing/JapanFreightCars.html

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

[CaptOblivious]

also, here:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,137.0.html

[Nick_Burman]

Hi everyone, I am new to the form and would like some help. I am interested in getting into Japanese N gauge for a small freight layout, specifically Koki trains. After some searching I found out that there are many different types of Koki cars and was wondering a few things about them.

 

I am going to purchase a 5 car set of Kato Koki 5500 series cars.  I would like to run a train with a mixture of different types of Koki cars, but only if it is prototypical. All of the videos I have watched don't show a mixed variety of cars, usually a train had one or two locomotives and 10 to 20 Koki cars of the same series.

 

How long were the 5500 series cars in use, late 1980s 1990s etc?

Would you find them on a train with say 100 series koki cars or some other series at any point in time?

The Kato set i am looking at is only $55US for the 5 cars, which it rather cheap compared to other Koki sets I have seen...are these cars decent in quality/detail?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

Don't forget that contrary to western practice in Japan container cars are also switched into (large and deserving) industrial customers, rather than just being run terminal to terminal. Something to consider in your layout...

 

 

Cheers NB

[Guest JRF-1935]

Hi Keiichi77,

  Welcome.  I am not an expert on Japanese freight but I love it and learn more and more everday, especially here from the members who are most helpful, and also a very friendly bunch.

  The 5500 series were produced early in container freight,  As far as I can tell they were the successors to the chiki 5000 series that were manufactured in 1959, which was the first container train "Takara" ( Treasure ) pulled by the EH10.

  The first experimental container freight train was a Kumoya, modified from a Moha (passenger car) that was cut up to hold 2 15t containers as an experiment for the run on the high speed lines.

  If you go to youtube and search "Japanese Freight" you will find many videos on modern day freight operations.  The trains consist of many varities of Hoki's that are combined to haul freight.  Hoki's have been produced in color's and there is a reason for that.  Yellow are low speed, red is intermediate, and blue for the high speed freight (110 km)  These are all based on modifications to the cars for weight and speed.  Although I don't know if it applies anymore.

  The EF66 was designed to haul freight, and is still one of the most powerful engines in use today, although the EF210's and EH500 series are fast becoming their successors.

  I hope this is helpful, and any updates or corrections, would be welcome by any member who knows more about freight operation than I do.

Rich C

 

 

[keiichi77]

Thanks for the help everyone, after many hours of web searching, watching youtube videos and reading forum posts I have decided to go with Koki 100 series cars, I would like to start off with about 5 to 10 cars with or without containers (depending on the price) with the goal to reach about 20 Koki cars down the road. Money is a bit tight right now so I am watching ebay for deals. I just picked up a used Tomix DD51 for $35 which I thought was decent. From what I could see in the youtube videos it look like the surface of the walkways on the prototype are black, but on this model they are red and white...looks like I will have to get the paint brush out. :)

[CaptOblivious]

Cool. Don't overlook the 50000 series and its variants. You will see them mixed with 100's in yhou tube videos, but it can sometimes be hard to tell from the color because they are all so dirty ;)

 

Do you have a sense if there is a particular region you are interested in?

 

Also, although I know you said money is tight,  you might consider picking up one of the cases I reviewed here:

http://akihabara.artificial-science.org/2009/01/26/review-casco-yp-517-case-for-koki/

[keiichi77]

To be honest I have no idea what region I would like to model. I am thinking on a northern Japan line as opposed to the more tropical regions, and probably a more rural setting then urban. I will have to do more research in that area. As for the Koki case that is something I would get..when I get enough cars (or even one at this point..HAHA) to fill one. Eventually once I choose a line/area to model way down the road I will pick up a passenger set that suits that line. I like a single or double track main as opposed to a maze of track, perhaps a lesser used line but still a line that you would see a Koki train on? So much information to learn...lol  My main interest is Canadian National in HO set around the mid 1980's but I have always been interested in Japanese Cape gauge trains. Since I decided to leave my current home in a couple of years (growing family) I have put off continuing (I have only constructed a 2' by 12' section at this point) my HO layout until after the move, and I don't feel like duplicating CN in N scale, although I do own two N scale CN locomotives that I bought for a display years ago. I can always use them on my smaller Japanese layout which I plan to make modular to take to the local train shows. I was going to try Unitrack or Finetrack but I think I am going to go with Atlas code 55 for price and availability. I am very open to ideas at this point though as I have bought nothing but one locomotive. :)

[westfalen]

If you are going to use Atlas C55 track be aware that most Japanese N scale, even some recent Kato, have deep 'pizza cutter' flanges that might cause you problems.

[keiichi77]

Thanks for the heads up, I have some code 55 track. I will test my Tomix stuff on it when it arrives. :) If it's to much trouble I will just use unitrack instead of replacing the wheels.

[Guest JRF-1935]

Thanks for the help everyone, after many hours of web searching, watching youtube videos and reading forum posts I have decided to go with Koki 100 series cars, I would like to start off with about 5 to 10 cars with or without containers (depending on the price) with the goal to reach about 20 Koki cars down the road. Money is a bit tight right now so I am watching ebay for deals. I just picked up a used Tomix DD51 for $35 which I thought was decent. From what I could see in the youtube videos it look like the surface of the walkways on the prototype are black, but on this model they are red and white...looks like I will have to get the paint brush out. :)

Keiichi77

  A couple of these should get you up and running - mix and match your containers.

http://www.hwjapan.com/sh/TOX92135.aspx

Rich C

[Guest JRF-1935]

Hi Keiichi77,

  Welcome.  I am not an expert on Japanese freight but I love it and learn more and more everday, especially here from the members who are most helpful, and also a very friendly bunch.

  The 5500 series were produced early in container freight,  As far as I can tell they were the successors to the chiki 5000 series that were manufactured in 1959, which was the first container train "Takara" ( Treasure ) pulled by the EH10.

  The first experimental container freight train was a Kumoya, modified from a Moha (passenger car) that was cut up to hold 2 15t containers as an experiment for the run on the high speed lines.

  If you go to youtube and search "Japanese Freight" you will find many videos on modern day freight operations.  The trains consist of many varities of Hoki's that are combined to haul freight.  Hoki's have been produced in color's and there is a reason for that.  Yellow are low speed, red is intermediate, and blue for the high speed freight (110 km)  These are all based on modifications to the cars for weight and speed.  Although I don't know if it applies anymore.

  The EF66 was designed to haul freight, and is still one of the most powerful engines in use today, although the EF210's and EH500 series are fast becoming their successors.

  I hope this is helpful, and any updates or corrections, would be welcome by any member who knows more about freight operation than I do.

Rich C

 

 

Sorry Guys - I was half asleep - Of course I meant "koki" - not - "hoki" 

Rich C

[katoftw]

Thread dig!

 

What is the difference between a koki 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 etc?

 

10000 35000 50000 etc?

 

Thanks.

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

 

Sorry I'm a little late to the party.. not sure how I've missed this thread.  Koki Cars are some of my favorite.

 

As for purchasing, I have a couple suggestions.  The 100 series koki cars come in mainly two colors.. blue and grey.. the earlier 100-105 are usually blue and the 106-107 in mainly in grey.  Anyway, if you're fine with the blue.. Tomix is releasing a 12 car set.  Koki 100 & 101s.  Hobby Search has this set on pre-order for $107 USD, so after shipping you're probably looking at $120-$130 USD and that's pricing it roughly $10 a car.. plus a bookshelf storage case.. not a half bad deal if you ask me.. bonus if you're concerned about the small details as this set has individual car numbers.. vs buying twelve 100/101 cars and having them all with the same road number..

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10245547 - Set comes out in February

 

There are also a couple of Tomix "Freight Sets"

 

EF510 + (2) koki 50000 - http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10146106

 

EF210 + (2) koki 107 - http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10241008

 

DD51 + (7) koki 107 - Loco1Hobby.net

 

Loco1hobby.net may also be able to get the others I listed from HobbySearch..

 

I have a couple 10000 and a few 50000 cars, but the majority of my stuff is in the 100 series (and 200)

 

I managed to get the Koki 107 (50th Anniversary Freight) Set when it came out.  A little expensive but one of my favorites.

 

Edited November 28, 2013 by Krackel Hopper

[katoftw]

that 12 car set is the reason i asked the question.  and yeah at figured $10 a car also.

 

but was curious of the differences?  if any difference exsist?  or are the differences minimal and have more to do with the real world release/manufacture date?

 

whats a 100 series?  whats a 200 series? etc?

 

what containers fit what wagons?  or are the all interchangable?

Edited November 28, 2013 by katoftw

[Krackel Hopper]

that 12 car set is the reason i asked the question.  and yeah at figured $10 a car also.

 

but was curious of the differences?  if any difference exsist?  or are the differences minimal and have more to do with the real world release/manufacture date?

 

whats a 100 series?  whats a 200 series? etc?

 

what containers fit what wagons?  or are the all interchangable?

 

Within the 100 series there are several prototypical differences (loading weight/etc) and a few noticeable differences on the models themselves, like having the little platform/railing at the end of the car, and placement of the brake wheel.  The Tomix 12 car set, the main difference is that the 100 series has no decking on the ends.  When loaded with containers, they fill the entire length.  However, the 101 series has a small platform/railing at one end.

 

Generally, all containers are interchangeable with all cars.. at least for modeling purposes.. there are real world regulations that limit certain containers, but generally speaking, all N scale containers from the big brands (Tomix/Kato/MicroAce/Hogarakadou) will fit any koki car you own.  Some odd-balls are like the 200 series, which is a shorter (40' instead of the standard 62') and it's specifically designed for either two 20ft or one 40ft container.  Where the 50000 & 100 series are designed for 12ft, 20ft, 31ft, & 40ft containers.

 

Hopefully that answers some of your questions.

 

A guy on the boards runs Sumidacrossing.org and has some good info on the prototypical differences between all the series of koki cars as well as what years they were released and when they were retired (or if they're still in service)

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Prototype/JRFreight/FreightCars/

[katoftw]

thanks, thats a big help.  just the onfo i was looking for.looked at that site before and missed the freight car stuff.  also helped with my question about old wooden/brown 1960s carrieges from another thread.

 

so the difference in the 100 series ie 101 up to 110 is that they are just different generations/versions/updates of eachother?  so you'd find various quatities of various models spend out accross japan?

 

or are the blue ones really gone from todays japanese railways?

Edited November 28, 2013 by katoftw

[Krackel Hopper]

Added a quick picture of my Koki 106/107 box.

 

As you can see, I've got 12' containers (green) 20ft containers (white) & 31ft containers (white & blue) interchanged on the 106 & 107 series.

 

The main noticeable difference on the models of these is the location of the brake wheel.  On the 107 cars it is located on top of the railing.  On the 106 cars it is located on the side of the body (most noticeable, the yellow dot on the top set of blue containers)

 

All the series have slight cosmetic differences, but nothing extreme.. except colors..

 

You'll find lots of blue cars still in service today.. watch almost any youtube video of freight and you'll see many are a mix & match of different 100 series cars.

 

The 110 car is a slightly different beast.. and yellow..  It was originally designed to run four 15ft containers.  Many have since been modified to run the standard 12/20/31/40ft containers..

Edited November 28, 2013 by Krackel Hopper

[katoftw]

Great box.  Whom makes it?

 

Hopefully by xmas I'll have Koki 107-297, -383, -47 and -102 in my collection.

 

Mainly looking at C20 Kyushu and 19D JRF containers, but there'll also be some Nissan, Coke Cola and whatever comes with the Tomix EF210 3 car set.

[katoftw]

After a bit of research, Look like a Tomix case.

 

I have a little bit of Kato stuff on ebay currently.  Hopefully it sells and I can look at that 12 car set.

[Takahama Trainwatcher]

Mixed feelings about sending this link to a reasonably priced koki 106... I don't want more of you stealing their bargains on offer. But, in the community spirit, here it is: http://www.modeltrainplus.net/collections/n-scale-freight-cars-new/products/tomix-2768-container-wagon-koki106

[katoftw]

oh, good price for one last set, especially with containers included.  trying to find some more and paying the prices of out of print stuff might be cost prohibitive.