Hypothetically Speaking...

[Claude_Dreyfus]

A bit of fun…

 

I’m a hypothetical shopkeeper, who runs a hypothetical model railway shop here in the UK. I have decided to start stocking a range of Kato products – covering trains, track, buildings and accessories etc. Kato have told me that they have a set selection of track and buildings they send out to new stockists, however the choice of trains is down to me.

 

My shop is established; however I am looking for my range to cover both the existing market and to help attract new people into Japanese modelling. I am known internationally, and have quite a successful mail-order side to my business.

 

I strongly believe that I should have at least one Bullet, as well as at least one other iconic model. The selection cannot be too large, and the breakdown is something along these lines:

 

Bullet

Express EMU x 4

Local EMU x 2

DMU x 2

Loco x 8 (steam, diesel and electric)

Carriage sets x 2

Wagon sets x 2

Individual wagons and carriages x ?

 

The majority will be N Gauge, although I am interested in at least a little H0.

 

All the items have to be available form the existing Kato catalogue and only Kato have agreed to supply me.

 

What do you guys think I should be looking at stocking? I want some items to be general and have a wide appeal so I can at least cater for some of those who are already modelling Japanese; but I also want that wow-factor…a train that makes people stop and look; a train that may be the result of an impulse purchase!

[Nozomi]

Dapol and Graham Farish!

 

I visited some UK shops last year and was sort of shocked that they almost had no modern stuff, Steam and Diesel like in the dark ages... Sorry, nothing against Steamers or Diesel engines but it's hard to believe that there is no market for a modern emu's, like the virgin pendolino. So I conclude that there is no market for contemporary models from Japan.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

You're right...the market is small; but it is there. Overseas modelling is popular in teh UK, with one or two exhibition layouts doing the rounds of both the circuit and magazines. Whilst I don't really want too many 'loss-leaders', I am willing to take a gamble to a certain extent and try to expand what is a small market into something a little more substantial.

 

Currently I reckon I am looking at about a present market of less than 5% of overseas modellers in the UK; however there are a large number of UK modellers who like to have something a little different in their collections. That is also a segment of the market I am keen to exploit...

[disturbman]

I guess, for the wow-factor, you should aimed at modern sleek trains.

 

For the Shinkansen I'll say go for a 500 (people around this board do seem to like it) or the new E5, with those colors it will for sure attract attention.

 

For the Limited Express, I'll be in favour of the E259 (beautiful model), the Snow Rabbit and then all the JR Kyushu's. For sure those are train that makes people stop (too bad the Sonic is not available anymore).

 

For the suburban type... No idea, I found them usually quite boring.

 

DMUs... Kiha81, but it's not like Kato really had interesting trains in this area. MicroAce is really the one with good DMUs.

[Bernard]

Claude this is an interesting thread that even after I post I'll probably re-think what I posted.

Since I'm an American and I don't know the interests of the British modelers, I'll have to apply what I've seen at my LHS.

 

My LHS has about 3 or 4 Japanese trains in stock and always the 500 & 700 on display, but they are not big sellers.

 

Steam Engines are always very popular and one of the reasons is that they can be "kitbashed". I was surprised to learn that MicroAce Steamers were sought after because they ran well and American modelers would alter them to look like N. American prototypes.

Kato bridges are also very popular, they are sturdy and easy to add onto a layout. There has been some complaints with the Wathlers bridges with pieces being warped.

 

It really is a "crap-shoot" for a business to invest in items that might not be popular with the majority of the modelers. I think you have to go with what the majority of people want to buy in your country....maybe 3/4 of your stock popular British items and 1/4 of interesting and popular Japanese trains. Test the waters and see how it goes and people are requesting more Japanese trains, then start ordering more. (It's your basic "Supply & Demand")

[CaptOblivious]

The 500 series definately has the wow factor going on! Does Kato currently offer a 0 series or 100 series? The 0 has instant recognizability going for it, and the 100 looks enough like it to be recognizable too. The E2 might also be recognizable, what with the coverage China's clones have been getting.

 

I also second the E259 as a striking design. The...what is it? Sonic? That your new Javelin is based on muight be a good choice too?

 

And the new Cassiopeia set is sure to be ahead turner.

[disturbman]

This is the Sonic: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10091901

[inobu]

The Railroad modeling business is a tricky business. It has an interlinking demographic formula that makes it unique and difficult to forecast. This is how twisted our hobby is. In our younger years we see it, yearn for it but cannot afford it. We then vow to do it when we grow up. Most likely its delayed because of life, children and space constraints. It comes to fruition in your late 40's give or take 5 or 10 years. Then you revisit your childhood dream that you vowed to do.    

 

Because of this it becomes difficult to forecast what the future will hold in the type of clientele and their demands. Most hobbies are in the realm where the kids can say "been there done that" but not in RR. You see and wait 20 or 30 years to do it and the rule of modeling is do what you see and know. This skews it even more so. Not sure what today's children are seeing or thinking but it is changing.

 

I worked in the telecom industry and one of the younger guys told a story about her son. He was looking through some photos and saw a picture of her on the phone. He asked what it the squiggly wire thing on the phone for. He was born in the age of cordless phones and never seen one. We all laughed realizing that we have entered a new age where the current generation gawks at the ridiculous devices we used. With that said, it will be difficult for that child to model or even contemplate modeling something he has never seen before (Steam, bullet)  

 

Remember, most of us model what we vowed to do as children and the children of today are seeing things of yesteryear which  may not grab their interest. Competing with Xbox and PS3 is a challenge and I do believe that the bullet trains can grasp their attention but today's LHS needs to stay in business and the bulk of their clientele are old guys that can careless about those trains. Go to other forums and you will generally see that mindset.  

 

It will be interesting to see how Kato manages it. I think Lionel went into an agreement with NASCAR to do diecast cars. You need a lot of real estate for Lionel trains and not too many people can do that today.

 

So hypothetically speaking, the formula is "you have to entice the young and sell to the old". The problem is the old dies out and what is in the minds of their replacement?

 

Inobu      

 

 

   

[Nozomi]

Sonic? That your new Javelin is based on muight be a good choice too?

 

I completely forgot the class 395 mini-shinkansen running through Kent with a lot of commercial success. Also I think the UK ordered dozens of Hitachi built trains to replace the aging intercity fleet.

Have a look at this:

 

http://www.hitachi-rail.com/rail_now/hot_topics/2009/090212/index.html

 

There might be more interest in Japanese trains in the future!!!

[Lawrence]

Hypothetically, do you want a Saturday boy 

 

For me, rolling stock is widely available, worldwide, 24 hours a day and on-line sellers have much lower overheads than the shops, so it would have to be getting into the detail - building kits, detail items, fences, lighting etc, scratchbuild stuff and a really good selection of track and scenic material.

[angusmclean]

Sonic? That your new Javelin is based on muight be a good choice too?

 

I completely forgot the class 395 mini-shinkansen running through Kent with a lot of commercial success. Also I think the UK ordered dozens of Hitachi built trains to replace the aging intercity fleet.

Have a look at this:

 

http://www.hitachi-rail.com/rail_now/hot_topics/2009/090212/index.html

 

 

 

They wish.  UK's money box is a bit thin at the moment and both Treasury and Govt(railway) have kept on delaying a final decision and having second thoughts over the designs. Watch this space.

 

Angus

[westfalen]

I think what Kato Japanese trains are available outside Japan is decided by what Kato think will sell and an individual hobby shop wouldn't have much choice in the matter, the bits and pieces that filter through to Kato USA are an indication. I think even hypothetically if you stock Kato or any brand for that matter, even if you can't have the entire range in stock you need to be able to at least order in anything from the current catalog.

[Fenway Park]

Hi,

 

In the UK MG Sharp started the Japanese trend many years ago but what the late Bill Eaglesham wanted was the Kato US N gauge. There were rumours that MG Sharp sourced their items via Kato USA.

 

When JR Models first started it was a spin off from the Japanese Railway Society but we won't go there as the moderators could be involved!!!!! They became the UK Tomix wholesaler as well as supplying Kato in competition to MG Sharp. 

 

Micro Ace, Green Max and Kawai came from established links. So in the hypothetical shop you would have to first get your supply agreements in place and not be stuck with the case minimum order that the Japanese manufacturers require. You could be stuck with add on cars etc for many years!!!!

 

Frankly your hypothetical shop would be far better than the current wholesaler for Kato in the UK!!!!

[The_Ghan]

Claude,

 

Interesting thread. I think Inobu's analysis is right on the money - you have to entice the young and sell to the old.  The potential problem here is that "the old" might be looking for nostalgic models - things they grew up with, perhaps.  How many model rail shoppers in the UK remember Japanese railways of the '60's?  Few, I would suggest.  How many would remember Japanese steam?  Even fewer.  Therefore, my inventory would probably be split between contemporary/'60's/steam at a ratio of, say, 60/30/10%.  Because many of your shoppers would not know much about Japanese rail I'd be making sure there is plenty of prototypical video and suppot info on hand to educate the shopper.  Apart from that, you need to consider a balance of passenger/freight.  In Japan the balance is weighted more towards passenger services than many other countries of the world.  Finally, I'd be leaning towards DCC compatible trains.  So, without further ado, heres my inventory:

 

Contemporary

    Shinkansen     10-547 N700                                     DCC

                         10-292 E4                                        DCC

                         10-510 500 Series - because every little boy knows its the fastest!!!

    Express          10-810 Series 681 Snow Rabbit            DCC

                         10-358 Super Azusa - keeping up the variety

                         10-237 Series 787 Relay Tsubame - a favourite with young boys!

                         10-238 Fujisan Express

    Local              10-570 E531 Joban Line or other          DCC

    DMU               10-476 Super Ozora

    Loco               3065-1 EF510-500

                         3060-2 EF65-500

    Wagon Set      10-565  Series M250 Super Rail Cargo

'60's

    Shinkansen      10-453 Series 0 ... yeah, it's not available, except hypothetically!!!

    Express           10-332 Series 165 Shonan Colour

                          10-241 Series 485

    Local               10-516 or other Series 103

    Loco               EF65

                         EF81

Steam

    Passenger       10-830 SL Train

    I don't know enough about steam to comment more.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[westfalen]

The '0' series Shinkansen is listed in the 2011 Kato catalog, basic 8 car set 10-453 and 8 car add on set 10-454, so hypothetically it should be available.

[CaptOblivious]

When JR Models first started it was a spin off from the Japanese Railway Society but we won't go there as the moderators could be involved!!!!! They became the UK Tomix wholesaler as well as supplying Kato in competition to MG Sharp. 

 

Nah, none of us have any connection to the Japanese Railway Society, and none of us have any (current) financial ties to any retailers. No need to walk on eggshells around us!

[The_Ghan]

The '0' series Shinkansen is listed in the 2011 Kato catalog, basic 8 car set 10-453 and 8 car add on set 10-454, so hypothetically it should be available.

 

I saw that westfalen.  But I also checked the Kato website.  They have no stock.  Actually, I'm holding out for this train.

 

I was looking through the Kato 2011 catalog today.  I didn't notice any section on DCC controllers or decoders.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

Cheers

 

The Ghan

[inobu]

There is a method to the madness that makes Kato and some distributors successful. I think this is driven by the fact that they are family owned and not driven by "shareholder value". Products are released on a limited cycle and distributors can save product for later availability. It keeps a steady flow of monthly sales. This is why we see old released products pop up on a shelf "new". If the consumer misses a release he can wait for one to pop up in a LHS/ebay or wait for the next manufacture/distributor release.

 

The hypothetical shop need to align itself with a manufacturing and distribution chain that is focused on business longevity and not profit margins/"shareholder value".

 

Inobu

 

[KenS]

My shop is established; however I am looking for my range to cover both the existing market and to help attract new people into Japanese modelling. I am known internationally, and have quite a successful mail-order side to my business.

 

I strongly believe that I should have at least one Bullet, as well as at least one other iconic model. The selection cannot be too large, and the breakdown is something along these lines:

 

Bullet

Express EMU x 4

Local EMU x 2

DMU x 2

Loco x 8 (steam, diesel and electric)

Carriage sets x 2

Wagon sets x 2

Individual wagons and carriages x ?

 

Bullet: E5 (very futuristic look)

Express EMU: I'll be a bit different and say Super View Odoriko, which has a clean, modern look

Local EMU: not a lot of choice there, they all look rather similar; I'll go with Chuo E233

DMU: Kiha 111/112 set

Loco:EF510-500 "Cassiopeia", DF200-50 "Eco Power Red Bear"

Carriage Sets: Cassiopeia, Series 14 "Yutori"

Wagon Sets:  EF210+container starter set

 

I took the "attract new people" part to heart, and focused on trains that looked "contemporary" (to me, anyway), assuming that existing buyers would have specific wants not served by trains from "somewhere else".  People who are nostalgic are often nostalgic for something specific. Someone looking to get into the hobby is likely to know, and care, less about specific trains and just be looking for something "interesting".

 

That's also why I (perhaps heretically) omitted any steam.  There's possibly some appeal to the "Harry Potter" or "Polar Express" crowd there, but you'd probably do better pursuing that market segment with Thomas and friends.

[westfalen]

The '0' series Shinkansen is listed in the 2011 Kato catalog, basic 8 car set 10-453 and 8 car add on set 10-454, so hypothetically it should be available.

 

I saw that westfalen.  But I also checked the Kato website.  They have no stock.  Actually, I'm holding out for this train.

 

I was looking through the Kato 2011 catalog today.  I didn't notice any section on DCC controllers or decoders.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

Cheers

 

The Ghan

I noticed the lack of DCC in the catalog too, hope they are not quietly dropping support through lack of interest in Japan.

[keitaro]

The '0' series Shinkansen is listed in the 2011 Kato catalog, basic 8 car set 10-453 and 8 car add on set 10-454, so hypothetically it should be available.

 

I saw that westfalen.  But I also checked the Kato website.  They have no stock.  Actually, I'm holding out for this train.

 

I was looking through the Kato 2011 catalog today.  I didn't notice any section on DCC controllers or decoders.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

Cheers

 

The Ghan

I noticed the lack of DCC in the catalog too, hope they are not quietly dropping support through lack of interest in Japan.

 

Seems likely as I asked the missus unless they are assuming dcc is a given which I doubt

 

Maybe an email in Jpn about it might clarify.

 

I think at the moment alot of Japanese companies don't want to risk anything

[westfalen]

The '0' series Shinkansen is listed in the 2011 Kato catalog, basic 8 car set 10-453 and 8 car add on set 10-454, so hypothetically it should be available.

 

I saw that westfalen.  But I also checked the Kato website.  They have no stock.  Actually, I'm holding out for this train.

 

I was looking through the Kato 2011 catalog today.  I didn't notice any section on DCC controllers or decoders.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

Cheers

 

The Ghan

I noticed the lack of DCC in the catalog too, hope they are not quietly dropping support through lack of interest in Japan.

 

Seems likely as I asked the missus unless they are assuming dcc is a given which I doubt

 

Maybe an email in Jpn about it might clarify.

 

I think at the moment alot of Japanese companies don't want to risk anything

I got curious and dug out the last couple of catalogs and they don't have any DCC either, it just seems that Kato don't actively promote it. Their U.S. trains for the last few years, Super Chief, Daylight, Broadway and El Capitan have had slots under the observation cars to accept FL12 function decoders but nowhere in the instruction sheets for the trains or on Kato websites is the fact mentioned.

[keitaro]

Yeah u may be right.

 

What annoys me most is they don't post specs half the time. A good example would be th hd300 from world craft see thread in new releases. Like WTF tell me it specs damn it like fly wheel lights on off etc etc. I figured Japanese modelists would have been demanding for that info

 

I guess not...

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Opening a hypothetical shoppe without an online shopping cart site is like shooting yourself in the foot before the race. Hypothetically speaking of course.

 

Stock lots of accessories like parts and common items like track stuff, those will always sell.

 

Stock some starter kits and other kits. Don't just stock what you are in love with.

 

Be frugal about recycling boxes and shipping materials so you can save a few dollars.

 

Always use tracking to ship anything.

 

You can always expand as the business grows.

[Martijn Meerts]

Yeah u may be right.

 

What annoys me most is they don't post specs half the time. A good example would be th hd300 from world craft see thread in new releases. Like WTF tell me it specs damn it like fly wheel lights on off etc etc. I figured Japanese modelists would have been demanding for that info

 

I guess not...

 

The hobby shops might not know the specs yet, if they haven't been released by the manufacturer. For example, Kato's E5 is supposed to come out in about 1.5 month, but still nothing is know about it's specs. Of course, we know Kato, and we can be pretty certain it'll have a 5 pole motor with dual flywheels and direction dependent light. Just like those who buy World Kougei kits/trains regularly will probably be certain about what kind of specs the new releases will have.

 

 

 

As for the original topic, I believe the best way to get people interested, regardless of which trains are being sold, is to have functional demo layout. Preferably one that visitors are allowed to use (under supervision probably.) An added benefit of this is that you can give trains a test-run on an actual layout while the potential customer is there as well. Personally, I prefer the more old-fashioned, more cozy stores rather than the modern, sterile ones where the personal hardly has a clue about what they're selling...