Kato E5 Shinkansen

[Guest Closed Account 1]

ghan where's those pics ?

 

I'm still sneaking the add-on set home from work .... 

 

Lol

 

Just tell her you won them

 

That's what I was thinking. Office raffle.

[rankodd]

That may be my fault. I did manage to submit an order for the Basic and 4-car B set. Whether it goes through or not is another matter.

 

And I just got the payment request.

 

Hayabusa Shinkansen Get!

[lordwinslow2]

Now there's two online dealers here in the States taking preorders for the next run. I'll have to stop by my local hobby shop this weekend to see if he got something from Kato announcing these. If so, I'll order thru him and save shipping!

 

I got an email from Kato USA this announcing this for a May delivery.  They say you can go to your local hobby store that sells Kato products to order it.  I am tempted now to put in an order, about $350 for all 3 sets...not too bad.

 

Winslow

[KenS]

On the other hand, the prices on HS add up to a bit over $250.  Even with postage you'd come out significantly ahead, so it may be worth waiting for a restock.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

That's when you get them all at once.

 

I'm receiving them ala carte and going to be paying around $370. First set will be here any day. Third set next week. Someday soon I'll get the second set.

[lordwinslow2]

On the other hand, the prices on HS add up to a bit over $250.  Even with postage you'd come out significantly ahead, so it may be worth waiting for a restock.

 

Here is the link to Kato USA's E5 page : http://www.katousa.com/N/JSE/E5.html

 

I could go both ways, I don't mind giving the business to my local Hobby Shop here in the states as it keeps them in business.  I hope this means that Kato will start to deliver more Japanese train sets to the US.  The hard to find and Japanese only stuff will still be ordered from Japan, but it is nice to know that some of it is available here. 

 

Winslow

[to2leo]

I just wish Kato will send some of their European offers to Kato USA. 

[Guest Closed Account 1]

My first set arrived tonight along with the Yellow and Purple Kato Portrams.

 

Ran them all evening at the train museum tonight during the "work night". Running in new trains is "work".

 

No whine at all in the E5. Most of the members noticed the fact that there was just a whisper. Only on full throttle did I hear a whine. More like new cold motor syndrome which quickly disappeared.

[KenS]

I've got the basic three-car set running its break-in laps around my coffee-table test track as I type (R282 curves; the overhang is silly, but it does work). Even after a half-hour at low-speed, I can still hear a bit of a "whine" from the motor as it goes past me (similar to the sound my 500 makes). But it's pretty quiet, and mostly drowned out by the sound of the wheels clicking over the rail joints.

 

This is an absolutely beautiful train.  The irridescent green paint looks incredible, and the duck-nose actually looks good on this train, I think in part because of the way the paint makes it look like it narrows towards the front.

 

And even the motor car has seat-backs visible through the (very small) windows.  I have got to install lighting in this one.

 

However, I'm going to differ with some of the other posters; I think this model is "DCC Friendly".  The bottom of the motor car is marked with an arrow, and sliding the piece sideways reveals the usual EM13 cavity, and the motor is the 3-pole, skewed winding version with flywheels, as found on Kato's newer designs.  There are also hatches on both cab cars that appear to be structured for the cab decoders. I'll take some photos later tonight.

[The_Ghan]

KenS,

 

I'm very concerned.  My cab cars don't have a cavity for decoders, they have a cavity for a manual switch to turn of the lights on one cab car and an empty cavity on the other.  See my post on 31 March in this thread.  My motor car has the arrow, but no sliding piece.  I really am looking carefully.  I thought the sliding piece might be the size of the decoder, like the sliding pieces on the cab cars, no?  I had come to the conclusion that the arrow was a simple direction indicator.  Or is it the whole floor of the car?  Unbelievable!  Have I been sold a dud?  I can't wait to see your pics !!!!!

 

Further, the Kato webpage does not list the train as being DCC Furlendorli, although I've read elsewhere here that the information on the webpage is occasionally inconsistent.

 

The_Ghan

<very concerned look on face>

[The_Ghan]

Luckily I've never bought a train that has needed running in wearing out!

 

   

 

Just stirring the pot!

 

The_Ghan

[David]

KenS,

 

I'm very concerned.  My cab cars don't have a cavity for decoders, they have a cavity for a manual switch to turn of the lights on one cab car and an empty cavity on the other.  See my post on 31 March in this thread.  My motor car has the arrow, but no sliding piece.  I really am looking carefully.  I thought the sliding piece might be the size of the decoder, like the sliding pieces on the cab cars, no?  I had come to the conclusion that the arrow was a simple direction indicator.  Or is it the whole floor of the car?  Unbelievable!  Have I been sold a dud?  I can't wait to see your pics !!!!!

 

Further, the Kato webpage does not list the train as being DCC Furlendorli, although I've read elsewhere here that the information on the webpage is occasionally inconsistent.

 

The_Ghan

<very concerned look on face>

 

I have the same thing on a number of my units, and it seems to be intentional. Both ends use the same plastic molds, so both ends have the arrow and cavity. However for sets that would only be joined in pairs the end intended to couple is the only one with the extra plastic 'switch' component inside (it's just a shiv that can seperate the pickup strips from the lighting contacts). If the set is intended to couple at both ends it should have complete switches at both ends. As an example my E531 is only intended to be coupled in a 10+5 formation, so only one end has a working switch. By comparison my E127 is intended to couple on both ends (runs as 2, 2+2 or 2+2+2) and so both ends include the extra switch part.

 

From some other comments it seems the same thing exists with the E5's nose coupler - both ends use the same mold for the nose, so both can technically be removed, but only the end intended for coupling actually has a real coupler hidden inside, the other omits these extra parts.

[The_Ghan]

Spot on Dave,

 

It is the DCC thing that worries me now.  I have the switch and no decoder slots.  I really want to see KenS pics.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[KenS]

And photos you shall have...

 

It is DCC Friendly. And I don't know why even the manual doesn't seem to highlight that.  But I successfully installed the motor (EM13) and cab (2xFL12) decoders tonight, and ran the train on DCC. The install is very similar to an E231 install, except for the way you remove the truck blocking the motor cavity.

 

On the whole, this was a very easy install. The cab decoders were a bit tricky (I used very long-nose needle-nose model pliers, holding the decoder at a slight angle, to force it into the gap between the brass strips on the bottom of the cavity and the plastic edge).  The Motor decoder went in perfectly, although to install it I wound up removing the body shell so I could twist the truck to one side (rotate it 90 degrees gently, and the drive shaft will pull out of the flywheel and the lugs holding the truck to the body will disengage, allowing you to lift it straight up).  Note, however, that the body is not just held on the sides, but also clips onto the two small beige pieces at each end, and has to be carefully unclipped.  Those two beige pieces want to go flying at that point, so carefully memorize their position so you can put them back in.

 

Photo 1: shows the cavity on the cab car with the hatch open, and the decoder ready to install. To remove the hatch, just pull the end that has the oval hole away from the edge of the cavity (it's the latch) and lift up.

 

Photo 2: shows the first cab with the decoder installed.  Note that the exposed end of the decoder has the gold pad centered.  You need to make sure one cab has this end showing, and the other has the offset end showing (so one will have headlights and the other taillights when the controller is set to a given direction). In both, the side tabs with two gold contacts each must face towards you, and the side tabs with one big pad each must face the bottom of the hole (where the brass strips carrying power from the trucks run).

 

Photo 3: the other cab, showing the removed switch (take it out before installing decoder) and the decoder about to go in with the opposite orientation to the previous one.

 

Photos 4 & 5: the train on the track with the controller set to forward and reverse.

 

Photos 6 & 7: the motor cavity before and after decoder install. To remove the central cover, just slide in the direction of the arrow about 1-2mm, then lift straight up away from the frame.

[The_Ghan]

Well, that's my fault ... partly ... I never actually pulled the little slider switch out to have a look at what was underneath, instead choosing to trust the Kato documentation on the web and brochure. Sheez!

 

I'll give it a go this weekend with the decoders from my E4.

 

Great catch Ken!  Thanks for putting this puppy to bed.

 

Now, how long do you think I should run it in wear it out for? ....  .... stir, stir, stir .... 

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[KenS]

I ran mine on DC for 30 minutes each direction, to make sure it was running smoothly before I tried the DCC conversion.

 

I am firmly in the "a little break-in is a good thing" camp.  Plus it confirms that the train wasn't a factory dud (incredibly unlikely) or damaged in shipment (also unlikely, although I had one train where something had come loose; don't remember what), before you go to the effort of making the DCC conversion. Although in this case "effort" was about an hour, stopping to take photographs.

 

Once that's done, there's certainly no need to "break in" the digital controller.  Unless you want to play with the train. 

[keitaro]

I'm on the train heading home takes 2 hrs wish I could be home running this in.

 

home some quick pics only used for 20 mins or so

[lordwinslow2]

KenS and keitaro nice pics, I am warming up to this set more and more.  The product page doesn't do this set justice, it looks better when it is out and about on a set.  The colors scared me a bit but I have to admit the do work with this unit.

 

Winslow

[Bernard]

Ken - what that expression, "a picture says a 1,000 words." Great photos they tell me a lot about the E5. It has to be one of Kato's easiest trains to install one of their decoders into. I also must be very smooth when running with the added fly-wheels. I wonder why they decided to go with a 3-pole motor instead of the 5?

[KenS]

I wonder why they decided to go with a 3-pole motor instead of the 5?

 

A darn good question, and one I wrote about (with photos) a few months back on my site.

 

All of Kato's new EMUs, with the "DCC Friendly" design, that I have seen use the 3-pole skewed-winding motor with flywheels. All of the older ones I have (going back to designs from around 2001, although built more recently) use a 5-pole, non-skewed design without flywheels. Kato has used the 5-pole motor with flywheels on U.S. outline locos (both of the ones I own, a GG1 and a SD80MAC) but my DE10 uses the three-pole version (also with flywheels).

 

It all appears to be related to smooth low-speed operation. Both the "more poles" design and the "skewed windings" design are fundamentally intended to overcome the tendency of DC motors to "cog" (stop where there is less torque due to the orientation of the energized windings relative to the fixed outer magnet). This is mainly an issue at low speeds, where there is less momentum in the spinning armature/flywheel assembly to keep it moving.  Adding or enlarging the flywheels also helps with this, although it creates momentum effects that some people dislike. However more windings have the limitation that more space is lost to the gaps between them, and space without windings isn't producing torque, so to some extent this is counter-productive (which is why 7-pole motors are only seen in larger scales).

 

My suspicion is that someone at Kato decided that for N, a three-pole design with the addition of skewed windings and flywheels was an improvement over the original 5-pole design. And the reason they didn't use a 5-pole may have been an unacceptable level of power with skewed 5-pole designs. Although that doesn't explain why they didn't use a straight 5-pole motor and just add flywheels, as they did in the U.S. The use of the 5-pole straight-winding design in the U.S. may just be down to the preference here for 5-pole motors (a feature routinely noted in advertising materials, but which Kato has never mentioned in any of their Japanese materials that I'm aware of). It's a lovely puzzle, but I don't know the answer.

 

And it's not only Kato: my Micro Ace E231 uses a 3-pole, skewed, with flywheels design also.

 

Walthers actually sells a very Kato-like motor with both 5-poles and skewed windings (I have one), and some day I'll have to do a good power/speed comparison of it with my other locos and see if there's a problem there Kato is avoiding.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Lunchtime Conversion!  That's awesome! 

 

Thanks Ken.

[KenS]

I haven't got this on the layout yet (Shinkansen track is still apart in two places and the rest of the layout is not yet cleaned up from recent work) but here's a couple of photos on my coffee-table test track.

[nik_n_dad]

Thanks, Ken, for posting the images and confirming it's DCC friendly.  Makes my life just a little easier (providing mine's not demon possessed like the N700 was)

 

I finally scored one of these a couple of nights ago on Plaza Japan (Only one in stock & had to by the full 10 car set, which is ok). 

 

Although Nik is at that age that belief in Santa, Easter Bunny, etc is gone, he still humors Mom and I, which means we have a non-birthday, non-Christmas, non-honor roll reason to give it to him (so I can play with it too). 

 

He's been itching for this model for some time.  He's been watching the YouTube videos approximately 9,410 times.....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbG5BakWBOY

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Installing Lighting in the E5 Shinkansen.

 

Looks like something the original Marvel Comic Joker would have to elude Gotham Police.

 

These E5 bodies are barely on. So easy to remove. Just beware of the evil coupler spring lurking and waiting below (p/n 923511). What a doozy to reinstall. Little bugger.

 

Here are a few pics to show how the install is done.

 

I like to start with the cab cars because there is excess foil tape left over to use elsewhere. About 4 1/4 inches is needed and about 3 1/4 inches of lens per cab. User preference. Just make sure that the lens extends past all the windows.

 

First pic is the cab car. Since the nose begins to slant rather quickly, snip 3 crystals off the lens. be careful of the windows they can fall out and you'll need a toothpick or other tool to spread the body over these when it is installed.

 

Second pic is the lens install. The back of the lens (LED side) has 2 tabs, they fall right into the E5 body shells. No notching with a blade. Grooves toward the roof.

 

Third one is the motor car. Take note of the copper strip positions. The LEDs don't really snap in they are there under tension from the copper strips. Modeling skills come into play here or rely on the roof to keep everything intact.

 

Last two pics show the wrong way to slip in the Kato 11-210 copper pickups into the motor car. It presses the factory copper strip against the truck and won't allow it to pivot easily. Also the spring rate of the combined tension is too much.

 

Once the Kato decoders (EM13 x 1, FL12 X 2) arrive then this bullet will be all DCC.

[keitaro]

This one does look extra gumpy on corners though compared to my 800 series.

 

Although I run it on 315 s

 

I also ran this on 280 mm no issues although look mega gumpy