Track centre dimensions

[marknewton]

I was wondering if anyone knew what the typical distance was between track centres on JR double or multiple track?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[KenS]

I can't answer the "typical" question, but according to this paper (pg 14), the Tokaido Shinkansen was built to 4.2m centers, and the later lines to 4.3m centers.

 

The Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (MLIT) published this compilation of regulations and standards, which notes (pg 31 of PDF, numbered 23):

- For trains traveling at 160 kph or less, the distance between centers must be 0.6m greater than the width of the rolling stock.

- This is reduced to 0.4m if passengers can't lean out the window.

- But if workers are expected to shelter between the tracks, it must be increased by 0.7m.

- For trains traveling at greater speeds, it must be at least 0.8m greater than the rolling stock width.

 

Note that track centers will need to be larger than these minima on curves due to train tilt (table on pg 30/22), although this is waived on very broad curves over 2.5km radius (pg 32, numbered 24).

 

The MLIT document makes interesting reading; lots of specifications.  But it's important to keep in mind that it's describing current regulations, which may not apply to older construction, and defines minimum requirements, not standard practice, for new construction.

 

Google is my friend. 

[westfalen]

Maybe one of our members in Japan could pop down to the nearest level crossing with a tape measure.

 

Got me wondering now how close it would come out to the Kato or Tomix double track spacing.

[Samurai_Chris]

I actually drove around looking at some local track for my layout today.. What I have done is picked up a Tomytec crossing set that has the center piece, and have used that as a guide.. You will be able to see pics later when I post my start on my layout thread later.. I will also measure the distance on my layout, and when I get a chance, I will get some "real life" measurements for you..

 

Chris

[CaptOblivious]

You could just break out Google Earth, and use the measurement tool to take some representative samples. Mark, is there a particular area you had in mind?

[Mudkip Orange]

Got me wondering now how close it would come out to the Kato or Tomix double track spacing.

 

Depends on whether you're talking about "getting the trains a prototypical distance apart" or "getting the track to look 'right'"

 

N scale track is a scale 1372mm so a prototypical track spacing will only have a perfectly prototypical appearance if you're modeling Keio. It'll come decently close if you're modeling a 1435mm road, but proportionally the rails will be "too close" if you use accurate spacing on a line that in reality is 1067mm.

[CaptOblivious]

FWIW, the track spacing between directly adjacent tracks at Akihabara station is 4.5m = 30mm @ 1/150. The space between adjacent cars on these tracks is about 1m = 6.67mm @ 1/150.

[marknewton]

@KenS - thanks heaps for posting that. Very useful information indeed!

 

@Don - I hadn't thought of using Google that way, good idea. There isn't any area in particular I'm interested in, it's more of a general query. As Alvin mentioned, there's two ways I could go, "proto" or "looks right". But as a general observation, it seems to me that track centres on 1067mm gauge lines seem to be greater than those on comparable SG lines, which I think is a big part of the distinctive look of Japanese perway. I think I might go for what looks right in that case, perhaps even exaggerating the spacing a little for emphasis.

 

Thanks to all,

 

Mark.

[David]

But as a general observation, it seems to me that track centres on 1067mm gauge lines seem to be greater than those on comparable SG lines, which I think is a big part of the distinctive look of Japanese perway. I think I might go for what looks right in that case, perhaps even exaggerating the spacing a little for emphasis.

 

Any thoughts on why the more 'Japanese' tracks have a wider spacing, despite Japan being space constrained? Perhaps because so many tracks are packed together, but they still need to be able to get in and safely do maintenance?

 

On a side note, has anyone seen reasonably priced 1/150 versions of the little signs, signal boxes and rope barriers placed between track centers for maintenance people?

[marknewton]

David, to be honest I have no idea! 

 

(EDIT: Thinking about it a bit, JNR 1067mm rollingstock is fairly large for the gauge, so the track centres must allow for adequate clearances...)

 

But the generous track spacing seems to be a feature of many NG lines around the world, not just Japan. In some cases it's to allow the use of transporter wagons/rollböcke to cart SG wagons around, but in others it seems to be simply because they have the space to spread out, so they do.

 

If anyone else has thoughts on the subject, I'd be interested too.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Mudkip Orange]

Any thoughts on why the more 'Japanese' tracks have a wider spacing, despite Japan being space constrained?

 

It's not a 1435 / 1067 thing so much as it's a JR / private railway thing.

 

JR is really the only railroad that's been aggressive about widening track centers to accommodate wider equipment, and all JR's (non-Shinkansen) lines are 1067. Traditionally, Japanese loading gauge is based around a carbody width of ~2800mm. Most of the Kanto trains at this point are 2950mm, which is where that "flared" side comes from (to accomodate platforms designed around the narrower 2800mm loading gauge).

 

Every private railway - 1435, 1067, or otherwise - is still using slab-sided, 2800mm cars, which means track centers of 3.4m on tangent. As all of the (non-Shinkansen) standard gauge railways are private, it follows that all standard gauge railways use the narrower track centers.

[bikkuri bahn]

Every private railway - 1435, 1067, or otherwise - is still using slab-sided, 2800mm cars, which means track centers of 3.4m on tangent. As all of the (non-Shinkansen) standard gauge railways are private, it follows that all standard gauge railways use the narrower track centers.

 

Yes, that seems to be the general case.  But (here we go again- I have been a victim too) as always seemingly with Japanese railways, there are exceptions.  Recent Sotetsu rolling stock (10000 series and 11000 series) are indeed 2930mm and 2950mm wide respectively, given they are basically variations of JR East's E231 and E233 design. Apparently this has some historical antecedents with Sotetsu use of ex-JNR 63 series EMUs just after the war, as these units were quite large (both in length and width) compared to the typical rolling stock in use by the private railways at that time (much of which burned in the US B-29 air raids).  Also, Seibu's latest rolling stock, the 30000 series (the "smile train", or to me, the "one eyed wonder worm") is also 2930mm wide.  This is a Hitachi A train product.