ICE/Shinkansen Portal prototype

[inobu]

You may have seen my posts querying portal images and the original reply about building one. I did not like what was out there so I decided to
try my hand at it. This is what I got.  



These are double track portals based on Unitrack width 57mm.

There are 2 types Cap and w/o cap.
It will be plastic/urethane.  

              Dimensions are inner tunnel clearance
              width   59.88 mm or 2.3 inches
              height  44.13 mm or 1.76 inches
              Length 146.75 mm or 5.7 inches
             
This is based off the images I found on line and pretty much to scale. it has a walk way up to and through with the ability to add tunnel depth in 53mm increments (extra cost).

I have a friend that runs LHS and wants to carry a few. I going to run a small batch of 20 or so.
I am getting the prototype CNCed as we speak and will post the actual images of them when its done.

My question is. Anyone interested in getting some as I will make more if need be.

I'm not sure of the price but will know when the prototype is done.

Let me know if you are interested.  

Inobu

Edited July 28, 2014 by inobu

[CaptOblivious]

I'm not a German modeler, so I can't say that I'm interested, but this is very nice work Inobu! Also, if you have capabilities for similar projects, I'm willing to bet more than a few of us here can think of ways for you to spend your time and money… :D

[inobu]

I'm not a German modeler, so I can't say that I'm interested, but this is very nice work Inobu! Also, if you have capabilities for similar projects, I'm willing to bet more than a few of us here can think of ways for you to spend your time and money… :D

 

I bet you can no no, I know you can and will if I'm not careful.

 

Inobu

[Bernard]

I really like them. They have that modern look that would go well with a Shinkansen layout.

[inobu]

I got the bases of the portal done. I know it looks like soap   but it is an ABS prototype.



I got a Woodland scenic portal that looked great until I opened the box. I though wow it looks good! too bad it cracked in two!!! With that I can see that they are too delicate and will break in an instant. I'm going to build something really durable.

I would like your opinions on something.

I can build the tunnel walls as a solid piece ready to go or as a kit where the wall has to be glued together. Which would you prefer and why?

You can see in the image the holes on the top base. The tunnel walls will seat in the holes and will butt against each other end to end. They can also extend the depth of the tunnel if you want.

Inobu

Edited July 28, 2014 by inobu

[Bernard]

Inobu - That is one of the problems with plaster, it easily breaks. The one good aspect of it is that you can trim and shape it..... just never drop it.

For marketing purposes, having it in 2 pieces would be easier to package than one solid piece. (and smaller to ship)

Also by having it in 2 pieces if you need to make the tunnel wider all you have to do is add a strip in the middle.

[inobu]

OK,

 

I'm going to create a two piece tunnel joining in the center.

 

A total of 4 pieces, 2 bases 2 halves. 

 

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

Inobu,

 

great work. i think a two part casting on the tunnel would be fine as its got quite a bit of meat on it. probably would do fine as a single casting for the tunnel as its pretty beefie around the top there. those ws portals were probably pretty thin at the top and why they cracked so easily.

 

looking forward to these! im starting to noodle on my layout plans and its looking like several double viaduct shinkansen tunnels in the plan!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[inobu]

Thanks guys,

 

I have incorporated both of your suggestions into the design.

 

Inobu

[omar]

I am interested. I have a 16 car 700 series and 2 TGV, and Eurostar... 

[inobu]

Ok,

I got the first article and its ok, I have a few issues I want to address but over all its good.

I have extensions that can be added to the tunnels depth, it brings a added perspective for the viewer. This is only the mouth.

The walk way supposed to be proportioned but the size is deceiving hard to gauge..  Check out the video below. Look at the people at the top and the guy walking down to the left. I think I got it right.

I mixed a few of the other portals features to create something different. Elevated walkway with ramp. 






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWu4yDgfW34?fs=1&hl=en_US

Inobu

Edited July 28, 2014 by inobu

[Bernard]

These look great! The plastic that you're using looks very sturdy unlike the WS plaster that easily break.

[inobu]

Now I see what is kinda bother me. I think I might have over designed the tunnel. Tunnels are mostly tight and cramped with limited spacing.
I think I have too much walkway. I need to eliminate the inside partition of the walkway and reduce the width. 


What do you think?

Inobu

Edited July 28, 2014 by inobu

[brill27mcb]

Now I see what is kinda bother me. I think I might have over designed the tunnel. Tunnels are mostly tight and cramped with limited spacing.

I think I have too much walkway. I need to eliminate the inside partition of the walkway and reduce the width.  

 

[smg id=1064]

 

What do you think?

 

Inobu

A lot of modern high-speed tunnel entrances are designed to widen out toward the opening, to mitigate the creation of air shock waves when a train enters or leaves the portal.

 

If you do narrow the walkway, consider making the track width opening wide enough for either Tomix or Kato double track...

 

Rich K.

[cteno4]

Inobu,

 

wow nice! thats a hunk of resin!

 

yes i think you are right the walkways do look like too much and probably are not there on a lot of tunnels to that extent.

 

also i think the tunnel wall may be a bit too thick, at least visually the feel a bit heavy now in the real thing. your prototype photo with the sound skirt looks like it tapers back to a thinner tunnel wall than the model w/o it currently does. the model looks to be something between 3-4' thick. are these kind of portals that thick on the tunnel walls?

 

also wonder perhaps making just the portal that goes down to like roadbed height and stops. then have the footings/walkway/ramp sections be separate or perhaps optional pieces as needed. i could see wanting and in cases needing to modify this section over the tunnel arch/portal itself and this is the difficult thing to build.

 

really is a great model, think you will be able to sell some of these! nice work!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[inobu]

Jeff,

 

Yep, I'm seeing the same thing and keeping going back and forth. I spec everything out and I don't know if it is what we are accustom to see verses what it really is. 160 verses 150 scale verses perception.

 

Look at the video and the guy is standing beside the tunnel wall. It look a lot thicker than he is, which is like you said 3' to 4'.  

 

The measurement of the wall is .283" thick which is 3.7 nscale feet. Which is about right.

 

I think it is the width if the walkway and the elevation of the tunnel making it a platform that is throwing everything off. It is a two piece design but the walkway is like a platform instead of a walkway. What you are saying make sense. I'm going to make the changes.  

 

I'm building these as sturdy pieces so they can be used over and over. It may cost more but they will out last the plaster and the guarantee that plaster has "it will break".    

 

Inobu

 

Jeff

 

I'm designing cost saving measure where I can. Here is the base.

 

[smg id=1065]

[smg id=1066] 

[inobu]

Bernard,

 

What your input?

 

Inobu

[inobu]

Rich, Jeff, Bernard, Don and every one else

 

I'm going to keep the inner width of the tunnel the same but reduce  and lower the walkway height and width.

 

[smg id=1067]

 

I'm going to lower the walkway platform and give it a more ground level look, I want to establish the clearance like the image above.

 

Inobu

 

Thanks for every ones input. 

 

[cteno4]

Inobu,

 

you are right it does appear to be like 3' thick there in the video, but i wonder if thats more due to the sonic flair there on this one as that throws perspective all off. your model is the straight out version and i wonder if those are more like 18"-24" thick like the tunnel walls would be. from most tunnel construction i have seen they use precast pieces that look to be around 18" thick, but not sure if they thicken them at the portals or not.

 

here are some picts

 

http://www.town.sotogahama.lg.jp/blog/log/eid179.html

http://gazoo.com/g-blog/toudo21/72594/Article.aspx

http://fxvs.blog123.fc2.com/blog-entry-6.html

http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/hmntas/diary/201003180000/

 

some of the entrances also look like they are add-ons to the tunnel face itself and since its not supporting much its pretty thin. only there for acoustic and maybe some debris/snow shielding for the tunnel entrance from the hillside.

 

i think you are also right about something of perceived scale at 1/150 vs 1/1. also maybe color as i only noticed the thickness when you showed picts of the cast and i went back to your drawings as i didnt remember them being as thick, but they were, just it was in a gray, so maybe painted this will change some...

 

really nice casting work! again, fantastic work!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[inobu]

ok,

 

Here is the comparison and I see what's going on.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANB-yZIJP6o?fs=1&hl=en_US" [smg id=1064]

 

 

I got too much tunnel width and walkway height.

 

I have to create a ICE version and a separate JR version, you cannot mix the two. Back to the drawing board.

 

Inobu

[inobu]

I have been racking my brains out wondering how I could have gotten so far off. I started pulling all the data and images I used and go over the requirements .

 

It basis of this portal is from the Irlahülltunne.

 

The requirements I had were to place the walkway in a fashion that would allow it to be raised or modeled at ground level. The builder would add ballast around the base and slope it away from the track giving it a ground level appearance if desired or could slightly raise the base and give it a curb visual.   

 

 

Did a mock up with the concrete track to see the curb visual and it is different. It funny how much of a difference it makes even with the units.

 

[smg id=1068]

[smg id=1069]

 

 

It is really hard to tell what really works without actually building the scenery.

 

I think I better do that before I make any changes.

 

Inobu 

[Bernard]

Inobu - I really like the casting that you're doing, I think you should try making a test diorama of it with scenery around it to see how it looks. What I particularly like is the perspective of depth that you give with the length of the tube.

Take a look at this early thread started some time ago by one of our members, you might find it interesting:

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,42.msg518.html#msg518

[inobu]

Thanks Bernard,

 

Yep, I am going to have to make a small mock up. In order to see the cause and effect.

 

I like his below ground layout. Those are really nice because it contains the perspective. The tube design is clean. I always thought that depths added that extra touch for tunnels.

 

I should have took better notes but I was back and forth on this project. I wanted to add the walkway to enable the builder to place devices in and around the tunnel. You can park a maintenance truck or crew in the area or even place a youtube camera guy rail faning. The walkway provides good avenues for visual effects.

 

I'm going to make a few minor adjustments, add the hood and build a diorama.

 

Inobu

 

There are distinct difference in the JR and ICE design so, I will do a JR one next.

[Bernard]

I don't know of any manufacturer that makes the type of portal you've designed. I think what he used was a PC pipe for his tunnel.

In a diorama I made I had to take a WS double portable and alter it t make it look like a Japanese tunnel portal. Your design is the design! 

[cteno4]

Inobu,

 

dont get discouraged, it was a fantastic first attempt! its a complex enough thing (especially with you casting it!) to hit it on the very first pass!

 

ive been noodling on trying some with PVC pipe as bernard mentioned and chopping it up with the band saw to see what some ideas would look like.

 

cheers

 

jeff