Got the TomyTec controller - may not be usable for much

[David]

I've got the drivers component of the TomyTec controller and the results don't look good. The controller is specifed to output 9V, 500ma, and in fact I was able to move a regular Tomix ED79-0 and Kato EF64-1000 locomotive an inch. The problem, unless someone who reads Japanese can help, is that the "brains" of the controller doesn't seem to like something about regular train models.

 

From the beginning:

 

I got the controller out of the box and carefully plugged in the cables as instructed. The only one of any difficulty is the tiny Tomix lighting cable used to connect the main drive unit to the brake unit (this does not seem like a great cable to plug or unplug many times, you really need something small to push it all the way in). I made sure both ends where snugly attached. With the power switch flipped the little light came on green indicating I was good to go.

 

I put a Tomix ED79 on the track first and turned the throttle to the first position. Nothing seemed to happen. So I turned the throttle up until I was at full and still nothing seemed to be happening. I played for a while with the brake lever, direction lever and the little switch I don't know the purpose of.

 

Next I put a Tomix Yo 5000 (brakemans car) on the track. It has lights on either end, so if its getting current I should see something. With a little more experimenting I briefly saw the cars lights on, but then it was off. I put the brake and throttle to nothing, put the direction in forward, and then moved to notch 1 on the throttle. The lights lit on the back off the brakecar up for about 3 seconds, then went off. I hadn't moved the throttle. A bit more experimentation showed that regardless of throttle position, the power always seemed to turn off after a few seconds (the power LED never went off). I had to reset throttle power to 0 before I could try again.

 

I put the ED79 back on the track. Knowing how the direction switch was oriented and the proper braking procedure now I put it into first notch with the engine facing me. The forward lights went on at full strength, but the engine didn't move. After the usual bit of time, the lights went out by themselves, without changing the throttle. I eventually found that with fast throttle action I could sometimes get the engine to move forward an inche or 2 before the power cut out. I duplicated these results with a Kato EF64. I also did some close listening with the Kato, and even when it refused to move, I could hear a faint buzz that would cut out sharply.

 

Not expecting much I put a single Kato EMU car (E231 Moha) on the track. It did nothing (no lights to see what was happening, and the motor is already a quiet one).

 

Next I tried it with a Kato shorty chasis - the controller worked exactly as it is supposed to. The car slowly accelerated, it coasted when I turned the throttle to 0, and it braked correctly. I did experience one problem where the shorty got stuck on a bend, and then it wouldn't start again until I turned the throttle down to nothing and started from the bottom. When actually working it has pretty prototypical acceleration and braking profile - this is not like DCC momentum where a train can stop in 1 inch, but rather it took several laps around my short oval to come to a stop. Even emergency braking was probably a good 6 or 8 inches from a reasonable speed.

 

Next I tried something interesting - I left on the shorty, but added the Tomix brakecar back. Now all this car has is a little LED - even a tram controller has no issue with it. However when I turn up the throttle, the shorty started moving as before, and the brakecar lit up, but after about 2 seconds they both cut out. Turning the throttle down to 0 and trying again resulted in the same thing. To eliminate any possible CL issue, and to lower the possible load even further, I replaced the Yo 5000 with a Kato Wafu 29500 - this little guy has an LED for only one end, and definitely doesn't have any CL functionality. I got the same result, with the Wafu car triggering the controller to flip off after 2 seconds.

 

 

So - it has the juice to move a full size locomotive, but cuts out after 2 seconds and the throttle needs to be reset to 0. It also cuts out after 2 seconds when exposed to even the little LED of a brakecar (either brand). It also, at least once (may be a fluke) cut out when the shorty got momentarily stuck, and again required the throttle to be reset.

 

I'm guessing some back EMF is being used here, and I'm guessing the logic of this controller is also easily confused.

 

 

Now here is the real curve ball. I had never intended to use this controller (or any other Tomix, DCC or pulse like controller) on my 9600 steam engines, as they are built on coreless motors. In theory some sharp pulse power systems (or just ones that are left on) can damage coreless motors because the motor has little static friction (which is why it can start at much lower voltages, and it starts moving "instantly" at full speed for that voltage) and more importantly has no natural heatsink, resulting in a burn out if the pulse power runs them to hard (even a regular DC controller can burn them out if you run them at the top of their range for too long).

 

However I have 1 dud 9600, it runs but with an awful sound, so I pulled it out and put it on the track. With the throttle turned to the 1st notch the engine starts making an offkey buzzing (this is that awful sound) and then...it starts moving, and kept going. Both the momentum and braking work properly. When the train comes to a complete stop it keeps buzzing and the lights stay on for about 1 second before shutting off suddenly. I added the Wafu car to the mix and things continued to work correctly - unlike the shorty, the extra LED doesn't seem to throw off the controller when its powering the 9600. I should point out that voltage wise, the 9600 draws more then the shorty (shorty can run easily on the 6V tram controller, 9600 not at all). I don't know the difference in amps between the shorty, 9600 and either electric locomotive tested.

 

 

 

So?

• Any thoughts on the results of my experiments?
  
• Can anyone read some of the Japanese instructions?
  
• Does anyone know (or can read) what the little switch above and to the right of the throttle does?
  

 

I'll be posting some photos of the actual unboxing and contents in this thread too, I've already attached all the documentation that comes with it (apart from what's written on the box)

[David]

Box exterior shots. Bubble wrap packaging by Hobby World (Japanese newspapers not shown). I've included better focused shots of the areas with text.

[David]

Unboxing.

 

1. First thing you see is 2 small packages containing the track power cable (standard Tomix) and the TCS cable (standard Tomix), along with the manuals in their own plastic bag.

 

2. Under the cardboard flap (which is actually folded several times in order to make up the interior skeleton of the packaging) you'll find the brake handle in its own little back and the tops of the controllers peeking through.

 

3. Turning up the next piece of the flap you get to the controllers themselves. There is one more fold of the flap, which contains holes in which the controllers are sitting. The white box contains the small power adapter.

 

4. All the components laid out.

 

5. Ok, terrible shot of the power adapter, but it's the only shot I took showing its size and the cable.

 

6. Power adapter detail.

 

7. Other side of power adapter, also a bad shot. If anyone needs to be able to read all the text shown I can take another picture.

 

8. And the brake handle out of its baggy. It's just plastic, nothing to get excited about. It does however act as a key, just like the big Tomix controller.

[David]

The brake unit. Not much to see here. Should really have taken a photo with the handle attached.

 

1. Front

2. Back

3. Back detail. Notice the 2009 copyright - was this delayed longer then we knew?

[David]

The throttle.

 

1. Front

 

2. Throttle detail. Note the switch of unknown use at the upper right - I can't figure out what it does, and can't read the Japanese.

 

3. Direction switch detail. Note that all the "screws" ontop of the unit seem to be molded plastic details to match the prototype (though I think they may have gotten a big oversized in the 1/3 scaling).

 

4. Back

 

5. Back detail 1. You can see the stated input and output voltage/amps. Near the bottom are the electrical in and output ports. Near the top is the black power switch. Above, where you can't see, are 3 plugs used to connect to the other components. Also take note on the left, where you can see a removable panel.

 

6. That area just out of view in the previous picture. The left most big plug goes to the component with the dials and sound hardware (from the other part of this set which I didn't buy), the middle one goes to the brake, and the last 2 pin connector goes to the door switch (also from the other set).

 

7. Back plate removed, exposing some kind of module. Despite the looks it's actually quite thick, about half an inch. I did not try to remove it after testing it with a light force (it is in there snug, if it is meant to be removable at all).

 

8. Detail of that module. Based on the 101 in the text, I'm taking a guess that this is the brains, or at the very least the "settings" that dictate how the controller behaves with regards to acceleration, momentum and braking. In theory Tomy might release a controller for a different prototype - this module, and whatever memory module lives inside the sound unit, would be swapped out for a different one.

[David]

One new finding from testing. If the cable for the brake unit is not plugged in (or not in all the way, you really need something small to push it in all the way, a poor design IMO) when you first turn on the controller, it reverts to being a regular controller with no momentum (I don't know if pulse power is still used). In this controller mode it is easy to see that there is no inherent voltage or amperage problem, it runs everything just fine, albet with only 4 speed settings.

[bill937ca]

I've got the drivers component of the TomyTec controller and the results don't look good. The controller is specifed to output 9V, 500ma, and in fact I was able to move a regular Tomix ED79-0 and Kato EF64-1000 locomotive an inch. The problem, unless someone who reads Japanese can help, is that the "brains" of the controller doesn't seem to like something about regular train models.

 

From what I understand the whole point of this controller is to create a "driving experience" for running Tomytec EMUs which have very light bodies and usually are not more than 3-4 cars.  Not for running regular full length model trains.  I regard these things as more toy than serious model.

[David]

Some of us are hoping it would represent a lower cost alternative to the big Tomix controller. Many years have passed since it was designed, and the electronics needed have come down in price by a lot.

 

I ran my dud 9600 steam engine for about 2 hours to make sure no damage was being done to the coreless motor before I put a good 9600 on. I ran a good 9600, then I ran a C11, which had no problem either. However the C11 has a regular motor, so I retried the ED79 and then the EF64. Both work perfectly now. The E233, 787 and Hankyu 6300 continued not to work. Intrigued I ran the ED79 constantly for about 40 minutes. Upon retesting the E233 now works, albet a bit sluggish. The 787 and Hankyu 6300 are now starting to run, but the 787 is very sluggish, and both easily stall, which causes the controller to reset.

[Guest ___]

I agree with Bill, my initial impression was that this controller was designed just to move the TomyTec railway collection cars that tend to run as single or two car trains, and then not very fast or far. It';s more of a novelty than anything else.

[KenS]

The 787 and Hankyu 6300 are now starting to run, but the 787 is very sluggish, and both easily stall, which causes the controller to reset.

 

The photo of the back panel shows that the variable DC output is limited to 500mA @ 9V. I'd suspect that your motor draws more than that when stalled, and that's causing the throttle's internal circuit breaker to trip (stall current on a DC motor is always higher than running current; that's why you need to size DCC decoders for the motor's stalled current).

 

If what's really limited is power, not current, then that's equivalent to 375 mA @ 12V, which is close to the normal running current of a modern motor.  It might propel shorter normal trains in good condition reliably at less-than-full throttle, but a long train with extra load on the motor, or lit cars, or a motor with a mechanism that's binding, are all probably not going to work well.

[Kabutoni]

I'm kinda happy that I didn't buy this controller. However, I only run short trains (one car Enoden and short freights), so that wasn't going to be problem anyway... But still...

[David]

Power doesn't seem to be a problem - in fact with some more break in it can now run the 6300, or at least as well as the 6300 is capable of running (it is an extremely old Kato tooling, even on the Kato power pack it practically has 2 speeds, stopped and warp speed).

 

By unplugging the brake module we can put the controller into regular throttle mode. Testing with this neither the 6300 or the 787 have any trouble at all running. I've attached 4 videos (sorry for the quality, these are coming from a $99 point and shoot camera) showing the 6300 running in regular throttle mode at the first, second, third and fourth notch. While I still need to spend the time putting up my floor layout to really stress test the controller (one of my 10 car Joban trains complete with interior lighting should really test its limits) I'm confident at this point that the controller has no underlying power deficiencies - unless you are running multiple trains from the same controller, I doubt there are many that need more then 9V to get up to prototypical speed.

 

As I said the 6300 was able to run on momentum control tonight - it's still not perfect. I need to put the throttle to at least the second notch in order to get it started properly (this doesn't effect the initial speed, just where the train stop accelerating at '15kph' or '30kph'). If I try to get it going on just the 1st notch the 6300 will still stall a lot of the time, though at this point even a small tap from my finger is enough to get it "unstuck" and running properly even on the lowest setting.

 

The momentum video attached (really compressed to get under the 1000K limit) is of the train starting and running on momentum. As the 6300 motor isn't great to begin with, the acceleration is a bit jerky and there really is no low speed. I set the throttle to the 3 notch and let it run on its own, then showed it being turned down to zero, and then throwing the emergency brakes to bring it to a fairly fast stop (more conservative braking results in prototypical stop distances - it will just keep going and going around my tiny loop for what seems like forever before it finally stops). I should stress that this video does not show off the controller very well due to the low quality of the 6300, it just shows that even an old high voltage model can eventually be run as intended. I will try to setup a better video (maybe Youtube for some space) showing the ED79 pulling some cars or an longer, more modern commuter train in action.

[nickhp]

I think this is the way I am going to go to control my B-Train Shorty layout.  Now I just have to wait for them to come back into stock...

 

BTW, is there any way to mute the sounds?  Also, did you ever figure out what the top right hand lever does on the throttle box?  You could probably post a close up of the text and have someone here translate it or the section from the instructions that shows that lever. 

 

Any other issues to be aware of for this controller?  I was thinking of attaching mine to a base of some sort.  I actually have 2 circuits but will probably use the 6v controller from Tomytec for the other circuit.  If I take the layout to our local train show, I think the cab controller would be an interesting conversation piece.

 

Cheers!

 

Nick

[cteno4]

Nick,

 

i played with one of these at one of the east penn sessions with some little trams and it works very well, so i expect it should do you fine for btrain shorties. its a fun little controller.

 

enjoy

 

jeff

[brill27mcb]

The unit has a volume thumbwheel in the back. This is not a straightforward throttle in the way it is designed and works, and it will not operate some equipment properly. It works well with a Tomytec power chassis, for which it was designed, and I have also used it successfully with Modemo trams, including ones with headlights and taillights. It fails to run equipment that needs higher voltages or currents to start up and run, so use with it with rolling stock that has throttle response characteristics like those from Tomytec and Modemo.

 

It has an interesting modular design. If you just use the motor controller piece, it operates much like a conventional throttle, but with fixed voltage "steps." Add the air brake piece and you get simulated coasting (forever -- no friction slowdown) and simulated air braking. Add the bigger control panel piece and you get the sound effects and two of the four dials work (the other two are for appearance only). Finally, add the door control switch and you won't get power unless you first "close the doors."

 

Again, the operation is quirky -- this is not a normal electronic throttle in design. It will not operate all equipment. I believe it's based on an industrial micro-controller. If the car or train does not react as the controller believes it should, the controller shuts down and has to be turned off and on again. It actually runs through a reset procedure. The simulated speed dial does not really measure speed or even voltage, but instead seems to ratchet up and down with a clicking, notchy action. I enjoy using mine, but can only do so within its limits -- no Bachmann trolleys or Arnold trams, etc.

 

Rich K.