Bandai B-Train Shorty

[Dinosbacsi]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:53 PM, disturbman said:

You should start sourcing the correct Kato pantographs for your B-Trains. They really add to the look, and are dirt cheap. I'm sure you can find a few other items to pack the box, maybe a Casco case or some smaller couplers. I was using Kato 11-702 on mine and eventhough they were not prototypical they looked great.

By the way, getting back to this topic, I ordered some pantographs today (alongside more tracks) from HobbySearch. I wanted Kato type PS21 pantographs, as according to the description they are the ones for 103s, 201s and 205s, but they ran out of stock just as I was about to order. One moment they are in stock, in the next moment the order confirmation screen tells me they just ran out... But anyway I ended up ordering type PS16s then. Visually they look pretty identical to me, does anyone know the difference? Would they also be prototypical on 103/201/205 series trains?

 

As for couplers, I've been also thinking about getting some. What are the options for those when it comes to B Trains? The Kato 11-702 you mentioned seems to fit into the place of the original Rapido ones? But they are buckeye types which, as you mentioned as well, aren't really prototypical for EMUs. Is there any similar replacement coupler in Shibata style? Where you just put it in place of the original Rapidos?

[disturbman]

The important is to buy the ones with the tabs under the middle, the B-type. I don't think you will see any difference between a PS16 and PS21. I couldn't spot one in the pictures.

Yes, 11-702 just goes into the Rapido pocket. Super easy install. 11-703 is the shibata version. There must be a gray one, but I don't know the item number.

Edit: If you know exactly what you want and it's out of stock at HS, you can write Tokonami-san at Railgallery-Rokko (https://rg-rokko.com/). He might have it and it will most likely end up being cheaper.

Edited April 7, 2021 by disturbman

[Dinosbacsi]

Yeah, I ordered the PS16 B-type, so that should be good then, thanks.

 

The 11-703 couplers look really nice, guess I'll get them next time then and try them out. There is probably already plenty of info about this, but I couldn't find it, how do they work? They snap together in some way to keep the cars together?

[tossedman]

Yup, pantographs and different couplers make all the difference. Had these lying around and added them to these cars. I'm sure they're not prototypical but they look better than the standard B Train Shorty pantograph and couplers.

 

 

 

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by tossedman

[disturbman]

15 hours ago, Dinosbacsi said:

The 11-703 couplers look really nice, guess I'll get them next time then and try them out. There is probably already plenty of info about this, but I couldn't find it, how do they work? They snap together in some way to keep the cars together?

I think they do, like TNs. Kato use to have some with a little nook under the Shibata head but it doesn't seem to be on these.
 

9 hours ago, tossedman said:

Yup, pantographs and different couplers make all the difference. Had these lying around and added them to these cars. I'm sure they're not prototypical but they look better than the standard B Train Shorty pantograph and couplers.

 

This is probably the most realistic B-Train I have ever seen. You added gangways, that really makes a difference. Which one did you use? Did you glued them on?

[tossedman]

1 hour ago, disturbman said:

This is probably the most realistic B-Train I have ever seen. You added gangways, that really makes a difference. Which one did you use? Did you glued them on?

Thanks, disturbman. To be honest I have no idea where I got that gangway from. I think it was 7 or 8 years ago. I'll dig through my records and see if I can find anything.

[disturbman]

No worries. I was just curious. I had never seen anyone add gangways to their B-Trains. I know Greenmax sells a few as parts. I was thinking to get a few for my Railway Collection trains.

[Dinosbacsi]

Yeah installing gangways is also something I've been thinking about for the future. I suppose generally they're just glue on ones? And I know there is also the one that works like a slinky and moves, but that one is a bit weird as it has holes in it, doesn't it?

[disturbman]

I don’t think there is any other way. B-trains don’t have anything to hold the gangways.

 

The horo gangways (iirc their name) that were just released? I wouldn’t put them on a B-train they seem a bit fragile and complicated to use. @roadstar_na6and @Yavianice ordered some to play around.

 

[roadstar_na6]

I guess they're fine to use with regular stuff, I just tried something that was rather bound to fail anyways 😄 SP-Hoods is their name and I'll try fitting them to an EMU/DMU at some later point and hope that that works better. For B-Trains they'll probably work the same way as they work for regular stock.

[tossedman]

The more I think about it, that Meitetsu 3400 was bought in an Auction with couplers, pantographs, and gangways already installed. That's probably why I have no memory of installing the gangways.

[Dinosbacsi]

And do the bit tighter couplers and the gangways cause any issues on tight curves? There still is some space left and due to their short size the B Train cars don't have that much of an overhang, so I suppose they're fine with it, but would be nice to know for sure.

 

By the way, since we are talking about accessories and detail already. What are your guys' stance on non-prototypical detail? Like putting front guards/skirts on trains that didn't have them in real life? My explanation got rather long so I put it in a spoiler tag so I won't bother those who are not interested in me rambling about pointless stuff, lol
 

Spoiler

 

So I'm mainly asking because, as I already posted here, I got the Chuo-Sobu Line 103 series recently. Thing is, I really dislike like how they look without a front guard/skirt. Well, generally I think any train looks silly without one. So I've been thinking about getting a pair of front skirts and putting them on, but it worries me that it wouldn't be prototypical. After all, Chuo-Sobu 103s never ran with a front skirt, as far as I know.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfSORV9UYAEEXJH.jpg

 

From what I gathered from pictures so far, only JR West 103s seem to had front skirts? I wonder why it's a JR West thing only and why JR East 103s never had them.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/JRWest_103Series_2017.jpg

 

But I have seen used, pre-assembled Chuo-Sobu 103 series Shorties for sale with front skirts. I suppose their previous owners had the same idea as mine, and put them on anyway. And they looked much better with one, I have to say. Though they didn't use the smaller black ones like JR West does, but the bigger gray ones that JR East uses on their 201s and 205s, like this 201 series here.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/6ATeP92bdQMOZESUeMkMzHKQAIBjlW69tduVnlXchjUCtdJJk_xjlGGhtyegCV8VizqnivN37FUQiPshbRnp4JQ

 

So what do you guys think? First of all, should I worry about being prototypical or just go for it and get a pair of skirts for the 103? And if I did, should I get the JR West style skirts, considering 103s only ever had those, or get the bigger JR East ones, considering the skirt style seems to depend on the operator and not the train itself? After all, JR West 201s and 205s used the same kind of skirts as 103s. So I suppose if JR East 103s had skirts, it would've been the same gray ones they use on their 201s and 205s as well.

 

 

[kami_illy]

3 hours ago, Dinosbacsi said:

should I worry about being prototypical

Honestly, I think this question answers itself in a topic where all trains are squeezed in around 1/3 of it's prototypical length 😉.

 

I hope / think most people here would agree with me: It's your railway! So if you want to put a skirt on it, do it. Have fun! 

[disturbman]

As @kami_illysays: rule #1, these are your trains. If you want to add skirt to them, do it.

The difference between JR East and JR West trains is most likely connected to a change in safety regulation and/or practice. My guess is that JR East 103s got retired before the skirts became mandatory. For example, I have seen pictures of 121 series with and without skirts. JR Kyushu 103s have also received skirts. This is of course pure speculation and would require a quick search on the topic.

The couplers were not an issue on my Shorties. Seeing the pictures @tossedmanshare with us, I don't think the gangways will be an issue either. But I could be wrong.

[Dinosbacsi]

2 hours ago, kami_illy said:

I hope / think most people here would agree with me: It's your railway! So if you want to put a skirt on it, do it. Have fun! 

Yeah, I expected this would be the answer, sorry for the silly question. I guess I will order a pair then and see how it looks. I mean I can always remove them if I change my mind, so..

2 hours ago, disturbman said:

The difference between JR East and JR West trains is most likely connected to a change in safety regulation and/or practice. My guess is that JR East 103s got retired before the skirts became mandatory.

I was thinking the same as well. JR East retired their 103s much earlier I believe, right? While JR West ran them for much longer and even still run them on some lines, which is probably why they got to live to get skirts.

 

But since then I did find pictures of Keiyo Line 103s that do in fact have front skirts, and that's a JR East line! It looks like they retired their 103s in only 2005, while the Chuo Sobu line got rid of them in 2001 (and routes like the Yamanote Line did so much sooner, in 1988). So I suppose if it really was regulations that put skirts on the 103s, it must have happened somewhere between 2001 and 2005. Though this is kind of off topic here, but got me curious, will definitely try to read more up on these skirts in my free time.

 

Anyway, long story short, I guess that settles it, I'll put skirts on my 103s. And as I expected, the Keiyo Line 103s did have skirts similar to the JR East 201s and 205s!

[tossedman]

 

On 4/12/2021 at 10:23 AM, Dinosbacsi said:

And do the bit tighter couplers and the gangways cause any issues on tight curves? There still is some space left and due to their short size the B Train cars don't have that much of an overhang, so I suppose they're fine with it, but would be nice to know for sure.

 

23 hours ago, disturbman said:

The couplers were not an issue on my Shorties. Seeing the pictures @tossedmanshare with us, I don't think the gangways will be an issue either. But I could be wrong.

 

Here it is on R117 curves, the smallest I own. It's tight but no problem. They run just fine.

 

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

Edited April 13, 2021 by tossedman

[disturbman]

21 hours ago, Dinosbacsi said:

But since then I did find pictures of Keiyo Line 103s that do in fact have front skirts, and that's a JR East line! It looks like they retired their 103s in only 2005, while the Chuo Sobu line got rid of them in 2001 (and routes like the Yamanote Line did so much sooner, in 1988). So I suppose if it really was regulations that put skirts on the 103s, it must have happened somewhere between 2001 and 2005. Though this is kind of off topic here, but got me curious, will definitely try to read more up on these skirts in my free time.

From my own research, skirts where mounted on sets that were used on lines with many railcrossings.

"In eastern Japan [JR East], the 103 series had a skirt only on the Keiyo line. In the image around 1998, a skirt is attached. I think that the 201 series and 205 series were installed in the near future. However, only the fairy tale face on the Musashino Line has not yet been fitted with a skirt. Western Japan [JR West] seems to have been wearing skirts since around 1990."

From further research it seems that there was only one set (?) was equipped with a skirt on the Keiyo line, and it was installed in 1997. I have the feeling it might have been installed as a test.

http://tac.ifdef.jp/main/monohon/jr-e/keiyo/photo.html

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by disturbman

[Dinosbacsi]

1 hour ago, disturbman said:

From my own research, skirts where mounted on sets that were used on lines with many railcrossings.

 

1 hour ago, disturbman said:

From further research it seems that there was only one set (?) equipped with a skirt on the Keiyo line, and it was installed in 1997. I have the feeling it might have been installed as a test.

Yeah I also tried reading more about them from various japanese sites that Google gave me, and one of them also mentioned a connection between the skirts and railway crossings.

 

Though another site mentioned that around half of sets ended up having skirts on the Keiyo Line. I doubt it's just one set that got them, as I've found pictures of both high-cab and low-cab cars with skirts. Though they had their sets in a weird way that had a high-cab on one end, and low-cab car on the other end, so it could've been the same set, but I doubt it.

 

Anyway in the meantime I did bid for a pair of 205 skirts, hopefully I'll get them. And also won a single Chuo Sobu 201 cab car that was put up as a junk item. I suppose it never hurts to have a spare car, and it does have a skirt if I need it, in case I don't win the other pair of skirts or something. I guess I'll try to get some cheap junk items and get them delivered at once.

[disturbman]

Easy to see, the formation number is given in the window. I think that poster wanted to say that Keyio 307 formation was the only high cab 103 equipped with a skirt. Which would be in accordance to other sources I read, that skirts where primarily installed on low cab trains.

[Dinosbacsi]

That makes sense, yeah. Or he means the other skirt fitted 103s have been scrapped by then, as it looks like he says "out of the remaining 103 series", but I'm not sure, I can only go by what google translate gives me.

 

The source you linked also mentions it being a complete 10-car set, while I've read that most of their trains were made up of 2 sets in a 4+6 car fashion and such, so he could be also be talking about that as well.

[kami_illy]

Since its more and more a hustle and a treasure hunt to get your hands on certain / interesting / popular sets, I was more than happy to find two new friends for my fleet. One arrived already, the old Odakyu 5000. I rode this one in 2008 when going to an office christmas retreat in Hakone. 

 

 

 

And as I was researching on the correct pantos I remembered that in 2008 I accidentally bought some "weird" GreenMax pantos after a conversation full of lost-in-translation-errors in Tokyu Hands. And now, voila... that's the ones I needed! Yay!

Putting the stickers in the next days and then it can go and play with the VSE. 

 

[lukewang01]

Made some links for KATO bogies to replace couplers. I really like the new look of the shortened gap between cars. I'll post the .stl onto Thingiverse if anyone is interested.

 

 

[disturbman]

Nice! I feel like you read one of my recent posts. How does the drawbar handle mini curves?

[lukewang01]

I don't have any mini curves, but a rough calculation shows that it could take C 170 curves, so it should be able to run C 177 mini curves. 

[Dinosbacsi]

That looks really good! I like the simplicity of it being just a single bar that fits into the place of the basic couplers.

 

On 4/15/2021 at 6:09 PM, kami_illy said:

Since its more and more a hustle and a treasure hunt to get your hands on certain / interesting / popular sets, I was more than happy to find two new friends for my fleet. One arrived already, the old Odakyu 5000. I rode this one in 2008 when going to an office christmas retreat in Hakone. 

 

 

Also this is a really beautiful train. And what is the other set you mentioned?