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stevenh

Kato Amtrak 13002 (EF81?)

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stevenh

So, I take it Kato was too lazy to actually model an american prototype and just repainted a slightly-modified EF81 (or similar).

 

DSC03812.JPG?m=1272977324

DSC03817.JPG?m=1272977327

DSC03821.JPG?m=1272977328

 

Found on eBay... full blog post here.

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westfalen

I believe these were done by Kato for Con-Cor, the same people who brought us such things as the BNSF Gas Turbine and Amtrak U50. Probably not so much Kato being lazy but only doing as much as Con-Cor wanted to pay.

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Kabutoni

Looks more like a repaint of the Seibu E851 locomotive, that was again based on the EF65 and EF81 from JNR.

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Guest ___

Note the total lack of any numbering on the unit. Of course, when Amtrak was looking at replacing the failed E60 program, they looked at to Scandinavia and went with what we now know as the AEM-7. Time for HSR came, we tested the X2000 and ICE, but I do wonder if Amtrak ever looked to Japan for electric motive power. (Not to suggest Japanese electrics ran over here under a pilot program or anything, but I do wonder if they considered any of the Japanese motive power as a potential option)

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David

Yeah, this is definitely the Con-Cor stuff where they just ordered Kato locomotives with cheap US paint schemes. I think all of them are pre-90s.

 

Thanks to Con-Cor you can also find that:

 

Amtrack also runs EF-65s apparently

Union Pacific has a few DD13s switching for it

New York Central is running the EF-57

Great Northern has a few EF-65s

 

And that's just from Kato (you can find lots of other foreign prototypes in US names from Con-Cor if you look on ebay).

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to2leo

So I guess Con-cor was pretty innovative back in the days.

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CaptOblivious

We wrong rooftop equipment to be a EF81. Wrong side vents to be a EF65. Can't tell what it is though...

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Kabutoni

Like I said:

 

image7.jpg

 

They seem to have removed the two portholes in the middle though.

 

 

EDIT: heheheh. Was a bit faster :P

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David

Take a look at this:

 

http://www.katomodels.com/product/nmi/e851.shtml

 

Then imagine if they cut costs by never installing the grab handles, and painted over (or never even punched out) the windows in the middle. Old Kato part number too. I think we have a winner.

 

Edit: Yeah, listen to Toni. :lipssealed:

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scott

It may be goofed up, but it's a great find.

 

I was using our Bachmann E60s to test our ballast cleanup today, since they run about as well as the real ones. :-P  If we were still going to run Amtrak stuff, I'd love to have a few of these fakes to simulate AEM-7s, which I like way better than the E60s anyway.

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Guest ___

 

I was using our Bachmann E60s to test our ballast cleanup today, since they run about as well as the real ones. :-P  If we were still going to run Amtrak stuff, I'd love to have a few of these fakes to simulate AEM-7s, which I like way better than the E60s anyway.

 

ROFLOL, that was the best railroad line I've heard all day and I spent an entire day out on the line too with a brake pipe burst five meters from where I was shooting, and I can tell you, the words coming from the conductor after walking 4000' feet of train with a new hose to find that the pipe blew was pretty good. This one tops that.  :laugh:

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quinntopia
So, I take it Kato was too lazy to actually model an american prototype and just repainted a slightly-modified EF81 (or similar).

As I mentioned on Steven's blog, I kind of like it! Maybe because it is reminiscent of the AEM's, or it just seems to 'look right' on that loco, unlike some of the other bizarro trains from Con-Cor mentioned above.

Of course, when Amtrak was looking at replacing the failed E60 program, they looked at to Scandinavia and went with what we now know as the AEM-7. Time for HSR came, we tested the X2000 and ICE, but I do wonder if Amtrak ever looked to Japan for electric motive power. (Not to suggest Japanese electrics ran over here under a pilot program or anything, but I do wonder if they considered any of the Japanese motive power as a potential option)

Interesting, this got me thinking. If its true that Amtrak never looked at Japan for replacing the E60's, I wonder if it was due to the fairly prevalent anti-Japanese mentality in America at the time?  For those of you who may not be old enough to remember, before Japan hit its current economic troubles, it seemed to many Americans (and I'm sure others) that Japan was an unstoppable economic juggernaut and that they were going to take over the world, etc...etc.... At the time, it was politically incorrect to own or buy Japanese made products.  I'm sure with the US governments involvement in the E60 replacement planning, it was thought that going to Scandinavia over Japan would be much more politically palatable. This is purely speculation on my part.  On the positive side (I guess) is that Japan's troubles in the past decade have taken some of the 'fear of Japan' that was fairly common in the '80's, and I think a lot more Americans are no longer afraid of the 'buy American' line like they used to be.  

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stevenh

Thanks to everyone for the input on this locomotive!

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Nick_Burman

So I guess Con-cor was pretty innovative back in the days.

 

So what...I bought the M-A DD13 because it was the only thing in the market at the time which resembled a GE 80ton+ loco. My luck that the only thing I did to it was to change couplers and remove that traction tyre (improved locomoive 300%).

 

Cheers NB

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Guest ___

Interesting, this got me thinking. If its true that Amtrak never looked at Japan for replacing the E60's, I wonder if it was due to the fairly prevalent anti-Japanese mentality in America at the time?  For those of you who may not be old enough to remember, before Japan hit its current economic troubles, it seemed to many Americans (and I'm sure others) that Japan was an unstoppable economic juggernaut and that they were going to take over the world, etc...etc.... At the time, it was politically incorrect to own or buy Japanese made products.  I'm sure with the US governments involvement in the E60 replacement planning, it was thought that going to Scandinavia over Japan would be much more politically palatable. This is purely speculation on my part.  On the positive side (I guess) is that Japan's troubles in the past decade have taken some of the 'fear of Japan' that was fairly common in the '80's, and I think a lot more Americans are no longer afraid of the 'buy American' line like they used to be.  

 

That's where I'm not 100% on board. During the 80's we did Japanese builders selling Light Rail, and Heavy Rail passenger equipment. Kinki-Sharyo built LRVs for Boston and San-Fran in the 80's and Kawasaki did a boat load of orders, a few of which are below.

 

1980: Philadelphia City Streetcar delivered as the first Japanese train for North America

1983 : 325 subway cars delivered to New York City Transit Authority

1985: U.S. subsidiary established in Yonkers City, New York

1986: The Yonkers Plant was established on the outskirts of New York and started operations

1989: Order for 75 Bi-level passenger coaches delivered to the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority

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quinntopia
That's where I'm not 100% on board. During the 80's we did Japanese builders selling Light Rail, and Heavy Rail passenger equipment. Kinki-Sharyo built LRVs for Boston and San-Fran in the 80's and Kawasaki did a boat load of orders, a few of which are below.

 

That's a good point.  Amtrak is a unique entity (arguably) given its quasi-private status at the federal level, so I'm not sure that a comparison with regional transit agencies (and for LRVs as well) changes the argument (in fact, the history you provide of the increase in Japanese deliveries during this time adds to the fear that was prevalent at the time that "the US can't compete any longer").  I think the federal level part is important too, in that a lot of the energy and focus for trade barriers and restrictions (for example) will occur at the federal level, and its easier to see why the Feds (and Amtrak) may have different 'priorities' than SF Muni or the MTA (I'm thinking of 'political' contributors and supporters as the 'priorities' here....an LRV contract for SF etc.... may not get the ire of GE or the UAW (or whoever) unless its something more 'high profile'--- like standard gauge, mainline locomotives (the locomotive distinction I think is probably important too, as this would be the first foreign locomotive in the US since the 19th Century!). 

 

And just thinking out loud, there is some logic for why it went to a Scandinavian outfit too, and it could do with a certain 'paranoia' about giving the Japanese, Germans, or French even more 'market power' than they already have - so you give the contract to a relatively small player that won't likely ever be any sort of threat to your 'domestic' industry (OTOH, Kawasaki, Siemens, Alstrom, etc... could all be potential threats to GE at a strategic level).  Again, this is all speculation, and they might well have considered Japanese loco's (and other countries products) and merely selected the best one based on price and capabilities. 

 

Of course, this assumes that the US decided not to look at Japanese locomotives....it could also be that the Japanese weren't ready for the all the requirements of exporting to the US during this time as well.  I don't find that easy to believe though....as you point out, they certainly were exporting a lot to transit agencies during this time.  And given that Kawasaki built a plant in the US well,  the reasons they do that are to weaken the 'don't buy Japanese' (or German, etc...) lobby in the first place (hard to say we're losing "US jobs" when they're built in your backyard after all!).

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Mudkip Orange

I don't think your speculation is all that far off, quinn. At the federal level, funding for Amtrak is congressionally appropriated, which means it has to pass by the same obstructionist bible belt republicans as every other federal program. That requires that Amtrak step a lot more gingerly, and, incidentally, it also requires that their routing and service decisions be based more on politics than on actual rider convenience.

 

By contrast, the NYC MTA is a very strong agency, with multiple captive funding sources that date to the days of Robert Moses's Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority. No recalcitrant republicans there.

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clem24

I've got one of these. Definitely based on Kato's original release of the E851. I've never seen one with Kato packaging though, which I find very interesting. I do believe this might actually be the very first Kato loco I've ever owned. I've always wondered if the flywheels can be upgraded. It uses plastic flywheels! It's kind of growly and not very smooth, nor very realistic (the front pilot moves with the truck) but makes for a nice model.

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