Hex-trak

[Junech]

5 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Which box for 20€ are you referring to for Ttrak modules? Their little cubic cardboard game box looked cool but unfortunately only 30cm so like a could of cm short inside for 1x module to fit.

 

The grey plastic box is called a Eurobox they come in 4 base sizes (300x200mm, 400x300mm, 600x400mm, 800x600mm) with two smaller boxes fitting nicely on a larger one - similar to A4, A5, etc. pages. They come in different heights as well. So just a plastic box of the same size can be found for around 20€ (25€ with the lid) Just a quick search for the box: https://www.dieboxfabrik.de/Eurobehaelter-600x400x320mm-Basicline-geschlossen-Einzelabnahme

 

So the box would fit 2 modules in each layer and if you go down to 120mm in height you are at roughly 10€ (15€ with lid).

 

My boxes are self-built for the modules since the size of 900x546mm is too big for the boxes. But I got some special modules taking less space and the small boxes fit nicely into the larger one. You can open the front and slide them in with their short side. One box was around 80€ when I built them a year ago.

 

[Cat]

1 hour ago, Junech said:

I think we will see at least a double, triple (like a triangle), and quad (parallelogram) piece coming in the future for scenic pieces that are connected anyway. That will remove some edges.

 
I did a little rootling about and came across this supplier in the US who has just this month added single edge modules and half-hex modules that neatly cover the zig-zags without requiring larger containers for storage and transport, but lose a bit of scenic space:
https://klawndyke.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=20
 
 

Edited January 6 by Cat

[cteno4]

Junech,

 

Those are nice interlocking boxes. I’ve not seen a similar system in the us. We are basically oriented to the plastic tubs with lids (think ikea plastic containers) or very specialized equipment boxes that get expensive.

 

your crates are exactly like one I built for a friend and the roadie crates I was planning for our larger sectional layout 3.0 modules. My external strips were 18mm strips of 12mm Baltic birch and 5mm luan ply. Would love to use 3mm ply buts been hard to find here. The strips are great handholds while loading and moving where as most plastic bins only have the top lip to grab and at times that can pop off tops if they are not locking. Hopefully in the spring I’ll make a few for the 15 or so club owned modules that go to most all shows. Fewer boxes as well means you can find an optimal packing configuration, with individual boxes it’s hard to remember what worked the best when you are filling the vehicle full!

 

Cat,

 

Nice. Edge modules could even have track. Would be nice to just have scenery triangles to flush the edges and fill in for multi module scenes. I see the zigzag of the edge of a straight away of hex modules to be something that will be visually distracting if too many in a row, so a few filled in could do a lot to help that.

 

they also have clones of Kato mini diorama modules at a very good price, was wondering when someone was going to make these.

 

jeff

[Cat]

For storage science, I saw a FB post go by with someone starting to experiment with a pair of Ikea plate holders to stack modules vertically.  Some rungs can be removed if more height clearance is needed.
 
Great insert idea, should a suitable container of holding be found.
 
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/ostbit-plate-holder-bamboo-90322360/

[cteno4]

A bunch of folks have done basically just a simple frame with a few slide rails and a couple of cross pieces top and bottom to stack up a number of modules.
 

I actually made a few sets of these for our layout 3.0 section modules that stacked modules 3 high. They basically were end plates that had 3 U on each to hook the bottom edge of the ends of the modules. We did one temp set up o f layout 3.0 a number of years back for the cherry blossom festival. I didn’t have time to make the storage crates and we needed to transport like 16 modules at around 18-20” w x 24-30” long. Worked pretty well, one module did work loose somehow on one end and fell onto the module below but no great damage to things. Main issue is nice to keep things sealed up in storage as modules are just a magnet for dust and schmutz. Also in transport you want things really sturdy and protected as crap happens like speed bumps, hard stops, folks fingers/hands grabbing at things to load/unload, things sliding around, eta.

 

I love the roadie crate design as lots of places to grip to when handling and easy to make things snug with a few simple spacers slipped in after loading. But it does require a lot of woodworking which most don’t to do or don’t have the tools.

 

jeff

[Cat]

3 hours ago, cteno4 said:

I love the roadie crate design as lots of places to grip to when handling and easy to make things snug with a few simple spacers slipped in after loading. But it does require a lot of woodworking which most don’t to do or don’t have the tools.

 

That's me!  At 1:32 or less, my building skills are ace.  At 1:1, my woodworking is mediocre; I have a very small assortment of tools for that; and completely inadequate shop space.

[cteno4]

Sadly few schools still have a woodshop classes and few younger folks have gotten much of any exposure to it and thus many scared of woodworking. Most of it to do decent work is just some training, practice and some tools. Don’t have to have a shop, just makes things easier.

 

jeff

[Cat]

I did get shop class in Junior High which was indeed a very useful class.  

I got by with B's, we weren't working with XActo knifes and jewelers files...
~ , ~
 
Having space to work is indeed a prerequisite for doing much work.  I have a relatively small bandsaw and tablesaw, but I can only use them when the weather is good enough to haul them outside.  They were the lightest models available, but still kills my back hauling them in and out!  Bungalow life.

[Junech]

17 hours ago, Cat said:

I did a little rootling about and came across this supplier in the US who has just this month added single edge modules and half-hex modules that neatly cover the zig-zags without requiring larger containers for storage and transport, but lose a bit of scenic space:

 

I think the UK store had those from the start. Seems like others are catching up.

 

@Jeff

 

Maybe a thought for you as well when you build the next ones. We added the fluffy side velcro fastener to the storage boxes. On the inside, it is where you will slide the modules. You can see it in the box on the ground (the black stripes). Since our modules aren't on tables we got some velcro fasteners on the sides of the modules as well for the curtain. It helps to prevent from removing the paint from the sides while sliding the modules inside.

 

 

We also added wider stripes on the top and the bottom of each container. That way they nicely slide on each other without much damage. The only real trade-off is that you need to secure them more while transporting them.

 

 

[cteno4]

Junech, 

 

Very nice idea with the Velcro fluffy strips! The one I built was for 1x modules and had them slide in sideways (the  standard crate width even with different depth modules) so didn’t think about rubbing as it would be on the ends and not an issue. But with corners and 2x modules faces are going to slide on a finished side. Velcro is a nice simple solution. 

 

On the 1x crate I built we didn’t notice any issue sliding on the wood rail. I just made a strips of corrugated cardboard to slide in to handle the 3mm extra on each side to protect the track overhangs from hitting the sides.

 

I never paint modules. I use nice wood veneer to face the front and back. I’ve standardized on cherry as it gives the nicest neutral, rich color and tad of smooth grain of most of the hard woods. My professional background is exhibit design and we always use natural wood around casework and objects as much as feasible as the human brain tends to just be comfortable with natural woods. Paint, metal, plastic all tend to hang the brain a bit and colors get into that odd I hate xyz color we all have and this does not seem to arise much with naturally finished woods unless you really push color with dies or stains. I just iron on wood veneer strips (adds a dollar or so to each module) and route the edge with a flush edge bit. I the finish with a lemon oil/tung oil 50/50 mix (lemon oil penetrates well and odor that’s around for a bit is just a pleasant lemon sent, not an organic solvent). Once it’s dried well for a few days I just rub in bees wax and buff that well. Bees wax gives a nice satin finish that feel like there is a varnish there (varnishes are a PITA and scratch) and makes the wood pretty moisture and stain resistant. It also along with cherry being pretty hard less prone to visible scratches and dings. Paints and varnish tend to show dings and scratches fast and catch the eye. Again why natural grain helps as it camouflages dings and scratches a lot.

 

I put two small 6mm x 12mm oak strips on the bottom of that one case I built and rounded the end edges so it could act as a slide going into cars. Like you say though, anything that makes it easier to slide into the car makes it more important to have things secured while driving! Thats another thing I liked about the crate idea is adding a small lash down rope is easy as you can’t use them on plastic bins really. Usually the car is packed full in the back and I’ve gotten good to make sure each layer is solid and braced front and back, but the top layer can be prone to sliding much more. My brain goes into tetras mode when packing boxes in the car to make sure there is a good interlocked wall at the front to stop things fro sliding forward and then try to pack the back with bulky things that crushing shifting to the back. I’ve probably done this a couple of hundred times now over the last 20 years!

 

Nice sharing ideas and experiences on these crates, I’ve not run into many that have made them.

 

Our first sectional layouts we had 1m x0.5m modules and we made large boxes for each module that nested so we could stack 2, 3 or 4 of them and put a lid on the top and a couple of hold down straps around the stack. We used 5mm luan ply and did the bracing all internally to minimize the amount used (boxes were good sized and we were concerned on weight). Allowed us to stack everything well and wasted space to a minimum. But it looked like we were carrying small caskets around! The boxes picked up the name layout caskets…

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Junech]

The reason for painting the modules with color is that my personal H0 modules follow Fremo norm which says grey modules. Similar to the club layout where the norm says they should have a specific brown color. So they got painted and to have all club layouts matching they all got or will get the same brown color.

 

I guess the norms tend toward color since it is easier for everyone the just paint the modules than everyone opting for the same wood or more complicated methods.

 

Personally, I like the brown color of the module. My brain tends to get distracted from features in the wood and so far paint solved that issue for me.

[Cat]

1 hour ago, Junech said:

I guess the norms tend toward color since it is easier for everyone the just paint the modules than everyone opting for the same wood or more complicated methods.

Here in New England, there are club layouts with very specific (and great!) themes and they have standardised colours.  T-Trak is more of a semi-anarchist collective with lots of folks bringing modules and a hodge-podge of colours.  I really don't recall what the N-Trak folks around here tend to do.

[cteno4]

Ntrak I think for the most part went black from what I have seen around here.
 

Yes some clubs try to standardize, but painting is just the worst thing you can do in this design environment. Any difference in color will show up pretty badly and there just is no really good choice in color. Some do black saying it gives negative space (completely getting concept wrong) or saying it’s what is used on stage, totally different visual space and scene and not applicable here, and shows ever scrape and ding. Bad dirt brown is another standard that just looks awful. The fronts being so large presents a visual problem for the small modules that just escalates the issues. This is why even differing natural wood faces really reduce these issues as it’s the one that does not tend to trigger the distraction. I spent decades with this stuff as we had to deal with all the materials in exhibits to keep attention focused on the content and artifacts and it’s so easy to get distracted visually and you are rarely concious of it happening, but it erodes the experience and learning.

 

Now with the new lasercut kits with box joints as they show through painting as well and just another little visual distraction. May sound minor but these add up. Simple piece of hardwood veneer ironed on and all cleaned up!

 

Ttrak scene anarchy is another big visual issue with Ttrak as the modules butt right up against each other thus you can have jarring changes or subtle changes that you consciously don’t see it’s two different scenes and take it as one scene with something went wrong in the middle here. I field this all the time at non train events with Ttrak when I talk with people about Ttrak. About half the folks I have the discussion with did not realize the layout was a bunch of individual, different scenes. Many of those that did not see it the step back and take a new look and say something like ok now this makes more sense to me! It’s also another reason I don’t like all the usual front panel painting distraction/conflict as there is enough with the scene anarchy.

 

The other thing natural wood finishes do is they draw you in to the point of even wanting to touch them. It’s part of our monkey brain, natural wood is a comfort surface to our subconscious. Painted surfaces, metals and plastics repel humans. I watch this all the time in exhibit spaces. 

 

I have presented this example before, but I found the best retail example of this concept was the Apple and Microsoft stores. Kobe was brilliant at setting the devices on large simple and clean maple tables. The presentation platform completely draws the attention to the devices and presents them front and center while at the same time being super soothing to the brain so much so everyone is touching them, leaning on them, sitting on the and even almost lying on them! You don’t have dozens of individual displays just 10 or so big tables in the space, so very simple and clean visually. The biggest thing visually as well is all natural wood and has calming comfort effect from walking in the door. This is just what you what folks comfortable and up close and personal with the devices, which themselves have a very inviting human I want to touch design (although this is slowly eroding sadly).
 

In contrast the Microsoft store was all blue and black Formica sort of standing desks with each device sort of having its own cubby. First they were very dark and products did not stand out. The mass of track spot lighting they had could not recover the products, it just sort of put spotlights on the problems more than the devices. The displays were huge in size compared to the smaller store space so your eyes were filled with the blue (hopefully you like blue) and black Formica from a great distance walking up to the store. Being Formica it was all bland in texture across all the display so every angle, corner and seam stood out visually when most had little design effect with most being accentuating negative aspects. They had these arranged in three concentric semi circles so you had to sort of wind your way into them, nit easy to circulate around and because a smaller store it made for tight spaces. Finally being all plastic no one touched the desks or leaned on them, so if someone did to to touch the devices they did so at arm’s length pretty much and many people standing 3’ back from the devices. Exactly what you don't want in a display! It was sadly hilarious at our local mall that for a couple of years had the 2 stores about 4 stores apart to walk by and see this stark contrast visually and its results over and over again.

 

sorry I realize this doesn’t come into most folks view, I just spent 35 years dealing with them all the time professionally.

 

jeff