Spaghetti layouts

February 19

I don't want this to come off as mean, and I understand that everyone has different goals in building a layout, but what is it with Japanese set track and modellers wanting to cover every single inch of the baseboard with track in all sort of crazy formations? I just saw a small layout on the web with four mainlines and an enormous yard, but literally no place to put buildings, scenery and the the other features that actual railways have. I suspect that it is just a matter of model railway enthusiasts coming from one of three schools: modeller, collector, or someone interested in play value. Again, not trying to gatekeep, but rather to understand the phenomenon.

BTW, I actually felt a bit guilty about making Hamamachi station double track. 😄

February 19

I guess it more or less depends on the location one's modelling. It's probably fine for those modelling the rural areas with 1- or 2-car Kihas running around. But major cities involve 8~15-car consists that stretches to ~2 meters, Not to mention shinkansen trains that goes up to 2.5 meters. Given the generally smaller space people have at home, there obviously has to be a tradeoff.

February 19

Not sure about others, but I've gone through several phases during my model train hobby.. When I was a kid I just wanted to run as many trains as fast as I could. I didn't care about scenery, and I also sucked at it.

I slowly moved more towards fewer trains (or at least, less visible track, but still lots of trains on a hidden yard), but I still sucked at scenery, so any layout I started never got finished scenery wise.

With the Japanese N-scale I wanted a large layout with 1 part a big station with lots of tracks, and 1 part more urban with mountain scenery and the like. However, I was a bit too ambitious, especially since I wanted a station that could hold 16 car shinkansen. While I do have the space for it, it wouldn't look good, which I only really figured out after I started laying the initial track for the station. So that project has been scrapped for now.

For the H0 project, I still want quite a bit of track, but for the most part it'll be single track winding up and down the mountain, and lots of scenery.

February 19

Just back from Japan and it strikes me that a lot of stations and areas have a lot of track and there are so many busy locations that many modellers probably experience those settings frequently. I am sure there are many fans of branch lines (and I like modelling them myself) but the big stations and major trains get a lot of attention. Places that seemed relatively less busy to me - such as Aomori and Hakodate - still had lots of track, even if much of it was not in use. And I expect Japanese modellers want to run those longer DMU and EMU sets. I was actually surprised when the Tsuguru 4 Limited Express only had four cars!

And I thought Hamamachi station had the right amount of track for its size!

Cheers,

Tony

February 19

Many, if not most, modelers in Japan don't live in big sprawling houses so space is a premium. They want to maximize tracks to run trains else they would be in the diorama hobby. 🤣 When I was there last September I found it interesting that most hobby shops (like Popondetta and not Yodobashi) have fairly large layouts where people can bring their trains to run (at an hourly rental rate). That adds to the "we don't have space like that at home" situation.

Also, as others have said, in real life, especially in metro areas, everything is packed in. People want to imitate life.

February 19

There is no simple answer, what you want to do for your own layout is a messy mix of what is YOU. Obviously spaghetti bowl is not for you! I’m guessing spaghetti bowlers would scratch their heads at a layout that was mainly one scene with a track running thru and maybe a siding or platform the same way you do at a spaghetti bowl and not understand.

it’s also cultural as when you look around the world you see there are some more “standard” designs in layouts in different places that seems to me more the norm tossed on top. Then you have is the layout for you personally or for show and the what is the audience, general public or other modelers. modeling at scale also almost always involves compression and exaggeration of just about everything as we don’t have the space to do anything close to being spot on prototypical even in very large layouts. How far this gets pushed is the result of a bunch of variables. I’m not super keen on spaghetti bowls myself but many are and they do give a lot to watch in trains running and where they may run next.

Our first club layouts we set up on the fly were a big double viaduct loop and then a spaghetti bowl of two ground level local loops that did folded figure 8s and folded dog bones so I was really hard to figure out where the trains would go next. The contrast to the viaduct loop (we even bumped our one end so not a total oval) was dramatic and actually set the two off nicely. The complex spaghetti bowl lower levels really held visitors (especially kids) as where the trains headed next was a bit unexpected and not simple loops. We had a lot of sidings and yards to hold trains and this was another crowd pleaser to see a number of different trains around the layout on sidings. Yes not prototypical and it greatly limited our scenery space, but most of the visitors were into watching the trains and the bits of “perceived” scenery we did were enough to flesh out the layout and trains were so different looking than what most visitors had seen before they were very excited by this.

When we went to a sectional show layout we could not do the spaghetti bowl due to track junctions at section module interfaces getting crazy, so opted to more of a diorama format with dual viaduct and 2 ground lines in a large loop, but we did try to wander those two lines a little when possible and created different sidings and scenes off of each. This opened up a lot more room for scenery and having fixed section modules made doing more permanent scenery possible. We kept a hole in the center so the layout was like a long ribbon and two sided not connected. This also helped keep track mess down and longer scene as a very long strip. It worked as well as folks got into the scenery more it there was less going on with the trains running and it was a bit more stand and watch the trains go by you.

i always love to say model railroading is about compromise as there are a lot of limitations and variables and you can’t have it all so you just have to search for the permutation that gets you the most for what you like and want to do and what talents, resources, and limits you have. But those permutations can be vastly different in what they end up for two different modelers. In the end it’s just important to do what make you happy the most. Of course, for some, happiness maybe to make a certain audience happy so that dictates what is done. There is no simple answer but to do what you enjoy.

cheers,

jeff

February 20

I guess everyone that comes into the hobby has different needs and expectations from it. I am with you in that for me, replicating scenery and a sense of realism is paramount when making a layout. I came back into the hobby after some time out just modelling. Military, cars, aircraft and some Gundam as the building experience was very enjoyable, not seen or interested in the anime. I know a few people who have created overwhelmingly cramped "layouts" which essentially plonk a few out of the box scenery items onto a baseboard with some grass matting and can run 6 trains simultaneously which brings them lots of joy. I think that certainly reflects the enjoyment of a collector rather than a modeller and its not something I would get enjoyment from for long, but each to their own.

I also think there's a progression element to the hobby too. Initially, I too was a collector of model railways, you could argue I still am to some extent. I don't currently have the physical space to enjoy making a layout worthwhile so I rely heavily on temporary setups or rental layouts. I do however enjoy the modelling elements of upgrading, detailing or weathering my stock and buildings as in none of my purchases have I ever considered what the resell value would/should be. I could put numerous loops of track and some scenic parts onto some board but it wouldn't keep interested, but for others it does.

I also find the mentality different here in Japan. There's definitely either more joy in just running trains around a circle, or that's become the normal compromise as most don't have a permanent layout. I've never seen other people shunting or recreating the movements of real life railways, just running stuff around. There are a number of rental layouts, HO in particular, that contain no scenic elements at all, just umpteen track loops. Alternatively, groups hire a local conference room and construct a temporary set up with set-track pieces, again with little to no scenery.

But I agree, most of the layouts I like the aesthetics of are usually rural single track lines and this are the most inspiring scenes for me. Small fishing areas along coastal inlets and forgotten areas fighting nature for space, served by minimal transport infrastructure and perhaps the odd industry.

If you have the space, a large urban expanse would be great and reflects most people's idea of congested Japan. My small gripes with modellers outside of Japan is plonking Kato/Tomix items on to an obviously European style of scenery and calling it "Japanese" or running a usually shortened shinkansen through a small station because again "Japan has to have Bullet Trains!" Essentially not my taste and the availability of products will always be problematic outside of Japan but all inform others on a different location to model as many viewers haven't had the experience.

This of course all goes against rule #1 of model railways. "It's your railway, you do want you want," and the only way to keep interest and attract others to the hobby is to eliminate the stuffiness and snobbery, which is sometimes present. My uncle, ex-civil engineer considers buying RTR stock and track sacrilegious. You should make everything as its modelling not buying.

Edited February 20 by Kamome

February 20

8 hours ago, cteno4 said:

I’m guessing spaghetti bowlers would scratch their heads at a layout that was mainly one scene with a track running thru and maybe a siding or platform

Ha, this post was prompted by a post somewhere that said that my good scenery made up for the lack of track. I was a bit annoyed to be honest. 😄

February 20

6 hours ago, Kamome said:

I guess everyone that comes into the hobby has different needs and expectations from it....

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