Tons of random N Scale newbie questions!

[100mega]

1. Is it possible to have two motor cars in the same train as long as the types of motors are the same? For example the Kato E353 set of 9 cars plus the add on set of 3 cars with an added motor 28-232N "Power unit 2 for E353 series attached organization set" or could different speeds between motors of the same type cause stress?

 

2. Is there a converter to have a Kato power unit work with Tomix track? Does Kato Sound Box work with Tomix track?

 

3. Is it normal for some coupler types not to perfectly line up when the two cars are on straight track and you're connecting them? I find I really need to finesse mine when connecting cars. I'm talking specifically about (maybe my terminology is wrong) Kato knuckle connectors and Kato B type or T/N type connectors.

 

4. If a train is part of a current starter set such as Kato or Tomix do the manufacturers typically keep the add-on sets for those trains in production?

 

5. Is there a way to order parts that you see in the Kato "Assy" sections of instructions direct? Should I assume that these parts dry up from availability when the model is no longer available?

 

6. Is there a general rule of thumb for getting new releases before they are unavailable? For example I want the E257-500, the Ocean Arrow 6 car set, and the upcoming KIHA 85 sets. If I want them all equally should I pick them up in order of release? Is it necessary to preorder? I just don't know if this is like other hobbies where if you don't preorder some items you can miss out entirely (or have to pay double the price later). Also, if stock dries up for a particular train do they ever come back in stock or is it a once they're gone they're gone situation?

 

7. The above kind of leads into this question. Sometimes thinking about trains that I want I have to decide between realism and what will fit in my (future) layout. Is it common for people to run trains shorter than what is accurate? I mean, I feel like I kind of expect that to be the case, but there's a little itch in my brain that makes me want to get the full length of a train. Also I find it hard not to think about printed car numbers however small they may be. I'm sure it varies from person to person, but I would be interested in hearing some thoughts on this. I don't want to miss out on enjoying the hobby because I'm too worried about things being "accurate". I guess there's an element of fomo where if you buy a basic set and don't pick up the add-on sets you might not be able to afford them down the line.

 

 

Edited January 26 by 100mega

[katoftw]

1. Fine to do. Quite normal. You will find the second motor can won't have wheel tyres and that allows for wheel slip.

 

2. Just gotta make one yourself by cutting up both manufacturers feeders.

 

3. Normal

 

4. Not typical.

 

5. Hobby search and plaza japan keep a large range of assembly parts.

 

6. No rule of thumb. Kato and Tomix both normally have extras made for future sales. But might last 2 week or 2 years. Other manufacturers like MicroAce, you may miss out.

 

Tomix and Kato do have a basic range of top seller they like available all the time. But these tend to be Kanto and Kansai region commuters and limited expresses.

 

7. Do whatever works for you. There isn't the old rivet counters of old in model railroading like there used to be. I think nowadays, people car more for fun than prototypical correctness.

[cteno4]

1. Is it possible to have two motor cars in the same train as long as the types of motors are the same?
 

yes most of the Tomix 16 car shinkansen trains use 2 motor cars. Kato tends to just use a single motor car even for the 16 car shinkensens, but some configurations of multi set trains can end up with 2 motor cars. There can be small issues in some cases with different shinkansen trains that can couple with different sized motor cars.

 

2. Is there a converter to have a Kato power unit work with Tomix track? Does Kato Sound Box work with Tomix track?

 

You need to solder up your own power cable converters. If you are not a solderer (it’s easy to learn, just take some practice and tons of tutorials on YouTube) you can use these solder sleeves (all in one solder and heat shrink connectors) and a lighter. Kato sound box will work with Tomix track but stick with Kato transformer with it.

 

3. Is it normal for some coupler types not to perfectly line up when the two cars are on straight track and you're connecting them? I find I really need to finesse mine when connecting cars. I'm talking specifically about (maybe my terminology is wrong) Kato knuckle connectors and Kato B type or T/N type connectors.

 

Hard connecting couplers (non rapido hooks) usually need a bit of fiddling to get them to line up and some pressure to make them snap together. The play in the coupler to swing and usually small contact point means sometimes you need to jiggle then some to meetup and to click! It’s all in practice and frequency of you doing them to how easy/hard it is. Every show first few trains are a fiddle, then by the end of the couple of days not even thinking about it, its reflex by then. Check your instruction sheets as some coupler have a preferred way to uncouple them and if specific the sheet usually shows this in a diagram (use language translator and your smart phone camera to translate instructions as well).

 

4. If a train is part of a current starter set such as Kato or Tomix do the manufacturers typically keep the add-on sets for those trains in production?

 

Most model trains in japan are not kept in stock for long periods. They do specific sized production runs and then can be many years until rerun. Some sell out in a week or even at preorder, others linger for years around new. Luckily there is a big used market in Japan so using proxy services and yahoo jp auctions or a few of the shops that sell internationally you can find most anything, but that sometimes can be at a price of course. Rule of thumb is if you see something you really want don’t wait, buy it if you can now if available. If you are looking at things that have add on sets best to not wait to buy the addon set.

 

5. Is there a way to order parts that you see in the Kato "Assy" sections of instructions direct? Should I assume that these parts dry up from availability when the model is no longer available?

 

hobbysearch, plaza Japan, rg Rokko are shops that have many parts or order parts. You can order parts of Japanese Kato trains thru katousa usually as well. It can take a while and their shipping is like $8-10 for a tiny part. Basically you fax in the instruction sheet with the parts you want circled (they want no miscommunications) they order from Kato japan and it comes over in their next container then they send it to you. this has taken from a few weeks to a few months for me over the years. The service sort of waxes and wanes over the years. Hard to tell what parts will still be in stock or not as time goes on.

 

6. Is there a general rule of thumb for getting new releases before they are unavailable? For example I want the E257-500, the Ocean Arrow 6 car set, and the upcoming KIHA 85 sets. If I want them all equally should I pick them up in order of release? Is it necessary to preorder? I just don't know if this is like other hobbies where if you don't preorder some items you can miss out entirely (or have to pay double the price later). Also, if stock dries up for a particular train do they ever come back in stock or is it a once they're gone they're gone situation?

 

always hard to tell, some sell out mostly in preorder, others can linger for years. Rule of thumb is if you really want it preorder it. Usually a tad better discount on the preorder, but may ship by itself depending on the vendor (some are better than others at holding stuff to ship with other orders). It forces you to budget a bit differently and temper the trains you have to have. It’s wonderful so many different Japanese trains are made but then that means its Just not feasible for manufacturers and shops to keep them all in constant production and stock.

 

7. The above kind of leads into this question. Sometimes thinking about trains that I want I have to decide between realism and what will fit in my (future) layout. Is it common for people to run trains shorter than what is accurate? I mean, I feel like I kind of expect that to be the case, but there's a little itch in my brain that makes me want to get the full length of a train. Also I find it hard not to think about printed car numbers however small they may be. I'm sure it varies from person to person, but I would be interested in hearing some thoughts on this. I don't want to miss out on enjoying the hobby because I'm too worried about things being "accurate". I guess there's an element of fomo where if you buy a basic set and don't pick up the add-on sets you might not be able to afford them down the line.

Personally I would focus first on getting trains you can enjoy now on what ever setup you have. If you can only afford a starter set to begin with then have fun with it and save up for the addon. If you only have a small loop then a 16 car shinkansen can’t be enjoyed much unless truncated a lot, so can be a waste to have until you have a large loop to run it on). It’s important to keep moving forward in the hobby and not getting too hung up on the ever giant future basement layout as it can stifle your current play and growth in the hobby. Even someone long in the hobby can get trapped by this.

 

On length of formations that’s totally up to you. folks end up doing this with smaller layouts. Same goes with running trains different areas or eras together. It’s your layout and you can do what you want to do and screw what others think of it. If it works for you and makes you happy then fantastic! If what make you happy is having perfect formations and trains running together for a region/era, then do that. But of course wanting exacting things like this can lead to a lot more pain and expense to get them. Everything about the hobby is a tradeoff as like in life you rarely can have it all, but you just try to jiggle the tradeoffs to get the best permutation for you to get the most happiness out of it and it’s usually a personal permutation. It’s wise to ask others about their permutations to get ideas, but none will probably be perfect for you so you need to fiddle to learn what’s best for you.

 

Super details like car numbers are also personal. I have not done all the numbers in all my trains (too many trains and too many other projects at a higher priority for me) as I realize I never really notice them when playing with the train and my brain structure does not register any annoyance with me knowing they are not there but being able not seeing them. I actually get the most enjoyment from modeling of doing details and such just to the point it trips the viewer’s minds eye to use their own visual memories to fill in more details that actually are not there and use their imagination some so they have a more personal vivid perception of the scene. This usually doesn’t require things to be absolutely perfect (ie current car number or formation, etc) but be the right combo to ingage the viewer’s minds eye and imagination.

 

jeff

[Kamome]

As others have answered the technical questions, here’s my views on the “opinion-based” questions.

 

4. The majority of starter sets from Kato are in a group of products called ベスト, (Best). Tomix has a similar range. Base sets without track come in cardboard cases rather than bookcases. Add on sets have the necessary bookcase to store them effectively. These are generally kept in production so stock is relatively easy to locate in most cases. This covers a good range of modern outline. As stock levels depletes, product tends to get a run every couple of years. So if you want a full E235 Yamanote, E5 Hayabusa, E353 Azusa, usually no issue.

 

5. Assy parts can be ordered directly from Kato but generally only domestic Japanese customers. You could check who the authorised distributor is in your country as they may or may not be able to order for you, just expect to wait. I’ve found parts for old models but availability for parts comes down to level of demand. Stores in Japan such as Tam Tam,  Poppondetta and Hobbyland Pochi carry a lot of parts for all manufacturers but don’t list on websites as inventory would be a nightmare. Kato and Tomix obviously list what parts are available from the respective hobby centres.  Small aesthetic parts are usually easy to find, motor units, bodies, light units or chassis are manufactured in smaller numbers so depends on the model. 

 

6. There really is no set plan for obtaining stock. Some sets will disappear quickly, some you think would sell through quickly don’t. I picked up some “specially planned” limited run sets long after release and are still available. As Ocean arrow was covered by Microace, it’ll either sell quickly due to the waiting time or not. You will find add on motor units tend to disappear quickly though.  

 

As 257-500 is in a new livery that no one else has done, it may sell through. The odoriko livery went quick.

 

If ordering from Japan, the discounted stores will deplete stock first. Eventually stock remains available but you’ll look at SRP pricing or above. We have seen product that was thought to have a single run, be produced again. You might wait 5-10 years or sometimes it may not be seen again. Still waiting for Kato 10-1386 Kiha 91 Kiso from 2010.

 

7. I personally like to obtain the full consist, but i tend to run at large rental layouts with multiple 2m stations on each route. If you’re planning a layout and have space for 4 car trains, as I prefer realism, i’d pick an area or line that runs shorter services rather than have a 4 car version of a Tokyo commuter, sleeper or container train, but each to their own. That’s the great thing about Japanese railways. They are so varied in landscape, rolling stock and service length and types, there’s something to fit everyone. 

 

Hope this helps. But don’t get bogged down in the “what should I do? There will always be stuff you’d wished you’d got and missed the chance, but stuff will come around again in most cases. Failing that, newer product announcements will take your mind of it 😂

Edited January 27 by Kamome

[MeTheSwede]

Is it common for people to run trains shorter than what is accurate?

 

I've never seen any numbers, but the fact that the manufacturers split up anything long into different products should be a good indication that most Japanese hobbyists often do. Anyway, you should do whatever you feel like doing.

 

If you can avoid the itch to be a completist, and say settle for 4-car consist instead of 11 cars, you'll be rewarded with being able to get twice as many trains for the same amount of money. Also if you would want to build a permanent layout in the future, not having to fit a very long station helps a lot in many ways (as with regards to layout size, cost and time to complete). 

[railsquid]

On 1/27/2024 at 9:52 AM, Kamome said:

Stores in Japan such as Tam Tam,  Poppondetta and Hobbyland Pochi carry a lot of parts for all manufacturers but don’t list on websites as inventory would be a nightmare.

TamTam lists their Assy parts (ooh matron!) online: https://hs-tamtam.co.jp/product/index/1/1700050770/1700050771/

 

My go-to place for Assy parts is usually IMON, who also list their Assy parts online, together with the stores where they are available: https://www.imon.co.jp/webshop/category/313/900/0/4

Hobbyland Pochi carries second-hand stuff only, they usually have limited random selections of Assy and other parts, I'd assume those are not always listed online.

 

Poppondetta stocks both new and second-hand parts. For the former, I can't find a way of listing them online; for the  latter I'd guess it's the same situation as with Hobbyland Pochi.

[100mega]

Thank you everyone for the detailed and thoughtful answers to my questions! I'm also wondering if there's a good website or wiki for just info about Japanese trains aside from something like Wikipedia and Fandom. I'm sort of figuring out what I like from a purely aesthetic standpoint, but a good resource would be nice. (aside from random trivia in episodes of Shinkalion I'm watching 😉 )

[cteno4]

Mega,

 

here is a list of stuff in English that may be some starting points, some web based.

 

jeff

[katoftw]

NHK Railway Journal and Train Cruise could help in that aspect also. Look in the video section of the website.

[Kingmeow]

On 1/27/2024 at 9:24 PM, railsquid said:

TamTam lists their Assy parts (ooh matron!) online: https://hs-tamtam.co.jp/product/index/1/1700050770/1700050771/

 

My go-to place for Assy parts is usually IMON, who also list their Assy parts online, together with the stores where they are available: https://www.imon.co.jp/webshop/category/313/900/0/4

 

 

I'm assuming these don't ship internationally?  I took a look and can't find a definitive answer though I don't see any familiar shipping services like DHL, FedEx, etc.  I see Yamato Transport which I'm sure doesn't ship to the US.

[Kamome]

Tam Tam only ship domestically from the information I found. I would assume Kato US could order parts but timescale would depend on how often they received a container from Japan. When I lived in the UK, I spoke with a very nice chap in Gaugemaster who told me they receive a large container once a month. This meant depending on time of ordering,  they could get parts within about 6-8 weeks. 

 

I don’t know if Kato ship overseas. Most likely not as they have authorised distributors. I’ve ordered parts from their online service but even domestic shipping is a little expensive. Even small parts come in a sizeable cardboard box. 

 

I’m sure RG-Rokko or similar could order parts for you and ship with other orders to make the postage worthwhile if you wanted stuff quicker. Parts are generally not discounted like other products across most retailers who carry them. 

[100mega]

Is the sometimes sloped front end of the car the "penetrating end" or does that term describe an end with a door that can be connected to another car with a gangway? I've seen the term used in google translated information and I never felt confident that I knew which end it was referring to.

 

Somewhat related, but I recently got the Ocean Arrow and noticed that the majority of the passenger seats in the 6 car set face the opposite direction of what I would think to be the front of the train. Doors are still "front, left" so I guess this is normal? There's not any special consideration taken into which direction a passenger would face on a train?

 

Also if I have a train where with an increase in power causes interior lights —> movement —> headlights in that order will a controller with pulse wave modulation be able to light up the headlights before movement occurs?

 

Kato lighting question. I have purchased interior lighting "indirect type" and another pack that did not say indirect lighting on it. With the indirect lighting set I was able to add the orange filters to get the yellowish light that I would like for an older train. When I got the set that was not indirect I added the included orange filter expecting similar results, but the light still appeared quite blue to the point where I thought I must have added the filter incorrectly, but that wasn't the case. Can someone explain that these four options are meant to reproduce?

Edited February 9 by 100mega
Added more q's

[Cat]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:08 AM, Kingmeow said:

 

I'm assuming these don't ship internationally?  I took a look and can't find a definitive answer though I don't see any familiar shipping services like DHL, FedEx, etc.  I see Yamato Transport which I'm sure doesn't ship to the US.

 

If you go through Buyee or ZenMarket as proxy services, you can buy items that only ship domestically.  Then of course, it's worth going on a buying spree from any number of vendors and Yahoo Auction Japan to pile up a package that is worth the shipping price. 
: 3

 

I've even proxied items from Amazon Japan that would ship here, but it was free domestic shipping to get it into my consolidated bundle of goodies and get maximum benefit of combined internatioal shipping.

[100mega]

On 2/8/2024 at 6:37 PM, 100mega said:

Is the sometimes sloped front end of the car the "penetrating end" or does that term describe an end with a door that can be connected to another car with a gangway? I've seen the term used in google translated information and I never felt confident that I knew which end it was referring to.

 

Somewhat related, but I recently got the Ocean Arrow and noticed that the majority of the passenger seats in the 6 car set face the opposite direction of what I would think to be the front of the train. Doors are still "front, left" so I guess this is normal? There's not any special consideration taken into which direction a passenger would face on a train?

 

Also if I have a train where with an increase in power causes interior lights —> movement —> headlights in that order will a controller with pulse wave modulation be able to light up the headlights before movement occurs?

 

Kato lighting question. I have purchased interior lighting "indirect type" and another pack that did not say indirect lighting on it. With the indirect lighting set I was able to add the orange filters to get the yellowish light that I would like for an older train. When I got the set that was not indirect I added the included orange filter expecting similar results, but the light still appeared quite blue to the point where I thought I must have added the filter incorrectly, but that wasn't the case. Can someone explain that these four options are meant to reproduce?

 

Just wanted to give a little bump for my previous questions.

[cteno4]

On 2/8/2024 at 7:37 PM, 100mega said:

Is the sometimes sloped front end of the car the "penetrating end" or does that term describe an end with a door that can be connected to another car with a gangway? I've seen the term used in google translated information and I never felt confident that I knew which end it was referring to.

Not sure what your question is here.

 

On 2/8/2024 at 7:37 PM, 100mega said:

Somewhat related, but I recently got the Ocean Arrow and noticed that the majority of the passenger seats in the 6 car set face the opposite direction of what I would think to be the front of the train. Doors are still "front, left" so I guess this is normal? There's not any special consideration taken into which direction a passenger would face on a train?

Dont know specifically for ocean arrow, but many Japanese trains have rotating seats.

 

On 2/8/2024 at 7:37 PM, 100mega said:

Also if I have a train where with an increase in power causes interior lights —> movement —> headlights in that order will a controller with pulse wave modulation be able to light up the headlights before movement occurs?

No, I doubt it as the difference between the interior lighting and the head/tail light lighting up is probably due to different resistor values and the LEDs used. Pwm would probably just make the motor move sooner as it tends to kick the rotor into action sooner than pure dc. But you can have the headlights and interior on without even the motor running if you use the Tomix constant lighting power packs that use a high frequency pwm that will light the LEDs but not turn over the motor. It can cause humming and heat in some motors though.

 

jeff

[100mega]

12 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Not sure what your question is here.

 

 

Here's a product page on Hobby Search that uses the term: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/11024074

"- It has two front shapes, penetrating and non-penetrating, and features a stainless steel body, a white front, an orange band, and a panoramic window that allows you to enjoy the scenery."

I'm just confused about which end the term is referring to. Thanks for the answers to my questions!

[disturbman]

It's what you assumed, "penetrating" in this case means the passengers can go through when two trains are coupled together. It's just a weird auto-translate thing.