Kato 2026-1 C59 repairs - guidance welcome

[ED75-775]

As I've previously mentioned in the 'What did you order or the post deliver' thread, I purchased a Kato 2026-1 C59 for ¥12,500 during a visit to Hobby Land Pochi in Osaka Denden Town. These are nice locos, and at a more reasonable price than those usually found online which are incredibly overpriced, no doubt helped by the fact this model was only in production for two years. Mine however came with an unwelcome bonus in that the original owner had glued three of the number plates onto the locomotive and made a mess in the process.

 

Since the locomotive's arrival into New Zealand as a partially-disassembled vehicle, I've removed the old number plates and scraped away some of the glue. But I need a bit of guidance on how to proceed with getting rid of the remaining residue and covering up any damage without making it plainly obvious that I've been at it with any sort of sharp pointy objects or finishing papers. I've no experience touching up models, or even redoing an entire finish all together, so any guidance or offers of mentoring would be welcomed.

 

Anyway, here's some photos of the damaged parts pre-removal of the old plates:

 

 

As can be seen, the left (driver's) side of the cab isn't too bad and in fact would be relatively manageable. Not so the right (fireman's) side of the cab where it looks like just enough wasn't enough, or on the smokebox door where the glue applicator may have slipped just a little. They're not the most recent photos, but they do give an idea of what I'm working with (and some of what you see has already been removed since these photos were taken).

 

Other than the glue damage, this locomotive is still in good condition and ran well when tested at HLP the day I brought it. @Kamome has kindly sent me some replacement number plates - thanks again! - and I'm keen that once they arrive and I've got some time that this little fellow will be brought out for restoration. It will certainly be cheaper than the alternative - buying a replacement body - which is possible, potentially manageable but prohibitively expensive since the only stockist with one in stock (or so they claim) is Hogarakadou. Yes, that Hogarakadou - they actually have their own retail shop in Fukuyama which even offers an online ordering system... for Japanese residents only.

 

Many thanks in advance!

Alastair

[cteno4]

Well it’s probably was an organic based solvent based glue as plastic around the side plate looks a tad melted and it took up the silver trim paint (doubt that’s a water based paint.

 

Did you try soaking it in water at all to see if that softens the glue? That’s the one thing to see if it’s something water based like Elmer’s white glue/PVA. 
 

how did you get the plates off? Can you give a picture of what you now need to clean up?

 

on the side plate the silver paint may come up with organic solvents with careful use of a small swab. These makeup swabs tend to work better than a qtip or regular swabs with smaller points and they stay pretty stiff (qtips tend to mash out quickly). These swabs are very handy to have around for cleaning drive trains, motors, etc.
 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832763348551.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.1177636diaBHFI&algo_pvid=ceb745f8-3572-4385-a7fa-b91e7b8885ef&algo_exp_id=ceb745f8-3572-4385-a7fa-b91e7b8885ef-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis!USD!1.99!1.21!!!1.99!!%402101f49e16930705317062226e4296!66304980216!sea!US!811587129!&curPageLogUid=99I5sHIDMklj
 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801303654552.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3.1177636diaBHFI&algo_pvid=ceb745f8-3572-4385-a7fa-b91e7b8885ef&algo_exp_id=ceb745f8-3572-4385-a7fa-b91e7b8885ef-1&pdp_npi=4%40dis!USD!2.12!1.29!!!2.12!!%402101f49e16930705317062226e4296!12000016321307293!sea!US!811587129!&curPageLogUid=j2wEAcia53cN

 

you first want to try water on a swab to see if it might be a water based acrylic for the silver. If that does not work you need to try some organic solvents like mineral spirits or lacquer thinner. You need to test it first inside the shell where it is painted the same black to make sure it does not start pulling up the black paint as well easily (wipe a few times and see if any black paint is on it.) You can also test out any solvents on the silver and gold paint on the plates already removed.

 

on the front plate it looks like the classic thin plastic model cement (usually toluene with some dissolved styrene in it)on top of paint or CA glue. These are going to be near impossible to remove (probably need acetone or fine sanding) without damaging the black paint and requiring repainting. But again try some water on it for a bit to see if it is PVA, but that streak doesn’t look like PVA, it does not look like that when it runs.

 

it’s looking like this may need some very fine sanding to clean off the glue and any marks from removal and then repainting if you want it clean. You may be able to lift the silver paint off but may get some of the black a bit tainted. That and front plate bit might also be covered up or camouflaged by weathering of the whole loco.

 

jeff

[Kamome]

The smokebox door looks ok. Is it just a case of changing the number plate?

 

As for the cab, it looks like they’ve used an adhesive that’s melted the plastic when applying the number. That right side they really have done a terrible job. 

 

First i’d check inside the parts. Remove any glazing pieces. Sometimes the recess for the number boards have smaller holes through to the other side. If so, these may allow you to push out the numbers from inside to minimise any damage to the viewable side. If not, use a very sharp scalpel to try and ping the number out. Don’t go too heavy and just use the fine point to encourage it out without damaging the surrounding area further. 

 

That right cab side especially is going to need some work. Hopefully you have a loupe or other magnifier to see what you’re doing. 

 

I’d look at scraping off any bubbled up plastic with a sharp scalpel. Go slowly, and make light passes at it. Then i would mask the shed plate tampo printing and white line with small pieces of modelling masking tape before starting any sanding. I like the tamiya stuff as it stays in place well. Gently sand away the glue smudges taking care not to remove the raised details. I tend to use 800 and work up to 1500 to smooth out everything. 

 

Once you’re happy you have removed the errors, painting will be the next step.  Depending on how it looks after sanding, you may get away with adding some layers of clear coat to uniform the top surface. (I’m not sure if these locos are painted black, or whether it’s just the colour of the plastic.) If it is just the plastic colour, spraying with some clear gloss first, then semi or matt will help to uniform the colour. This is what some Gundam modellers do to retain the original plastic colour after parts have been filed and sanded.

 

If it needs painting or if you’ve had to use filler for any repairs, I’d mask off the white line, keeping the tampo prints also masked. Then the challenge is matching the colour as best you can and i’d use an airbrush if you have one.  Paint a piece of plasti-card first and test next to the boiler to match the colour as close as you can.

 

Hope this helps.

[SwallowAngel]

12 hours ago, Kamome said:

(I’m not sure if these locos are painted black, or whether it’s just the colour of the plastic.)

Either the plastic itself is black for Kato steamers or the paint is so thick that a light sanding won't get through the paint coat. Shigemon actually does something similar when he applies some brass number plates for the smokebox door, first sanding and polishing it before applying a coat of black to blend the sanded parts in with the rest. So getting away with a little sanding and some paint and/or clear coat is definitely possible, though I would make sure the touched up parts gloss matches up with the rest of the locomotive.

[ED75-775]

Thanks @cteno4 @Kamome and @SwallowAngel for the advice. Sorry it’s taken so long to post a reply; I feel like I need some more recent photos so since I’m up far too late, have some brutal close up shots of the locomotive body as it currently stands:

 

Smokebox door.

 

Right (fireman’s) side of cab, alias the bad side.

 

Left (driver’s) side of cab, alias the ‘good’ side.

 

Apologies if the smokebox

shoy isn’t the best, my iPod camera was being a bit squirrelly and I had to play around to get a decent photo of it.

 

I actually reassembled the front of the locomotive as a motivator to keep working on it, but said motivation has been sadly lacking and as you can see, I think my sharp pointy things have had to compromise the painted surface layer of the cab. Which makes me very nervous to carry on, but carry on I must!

 

I don’t actually have an airbrush as they’re too expensive for someone like me - I buy too many trains for that! - but I have been thinking about whether Tamiya spray paint might be the ticket forward. They even do a nice red oxide spray which could be useful for when my ¥300 ‘some-reassembly-required’ Kato truss bridge gets reassembled.

 

Either way, I’m going to need a good mentor and lots of emotional support to nurse this one home. Further suggestions welcome!

 

Alastair

 

[cteno4]

Alastair,

 

if you want a decent paint job on this you may need to air brush. Rattle cans so pretty well, but they do larger paint droplets that may end up mucking up a lot of detail and they sometimes can spit a good blob and then it’s a mess stripping and repainting. Airbrushes are not horribly expensive, in the $50-150 range for a decent one. But then you need air for it which is either canned air which gets expensive if you use it much but not a big investment for a few little paint jobs. Big thing with spray painting like this is you need to practice to get decent at it. Rattle cans are simple but it takes care to get it even. Airbrushs get you a much finer spray and you can do very light coats to not muck up details. But airbrushing is a real feel thing that take just some learning and practice as well. I would buy a few old train cars at a train show or auctions and use them to practice on even with rattle cans before tackling the steamer.

 

you might look at just weathering the current steamer shell. The areas with the issues are places you would get some drip weathering. Would not have to be total heavy weathered, just a bit of it. While in japan these days the preserved steam engines all look perfect, I’m sure when they were in regular service they were not always pristine.

 

anyhow if you plan to move forward trying to work on cleaning up the rough spots and either trying to spot paint, whole paint, or polish off the blemishes I would definitely first get some old rail cars (or even a dead old steamer) cheap and practice working on that first. Make some gouges in the plastic in a similar detail area and then just go at it experimenting and just getting the feel of cleaning it up and see what works best in your hands. Hacking and whacking on old cars like this really is a great way to learn. 
 

if you want to pm me your mailing address I can pop a surgical eye chisel blade to you. These are micro surgery scalpels and this one is a chisel end about 2mm across that may be the best way to shave off some of the gouges. Getting a pointed #11 tip in there at the right angle may be tough. I can also send you a few dental polish strips. These are very, very fine sandpaper a few mm wide. You can glue a small bit over the end of a small stick (like 3mm square styrene stock that you lightly round the end on one direction) to then use to lightly sand and polish the surface using the end of the stick.

 

again practice is your friend on a project like this so playing with and old car(s) to learn ways that work well in your hands. Everyone is a bit different in what works best on thing like this in their hands. Only way to discover that is to just try stuff and practice a lot.

 

pm me your mailing address and I’ll pop an envelope in the mail to you.

 

jeff

[Kamome]

On 8/27/2023 at 8:05 PM, SwallowAngel said:

Either the plastic itself is black for Kato steamers or the paint is so thick that a light sanding won't get through the paint coat.

I would suggest as the clarity of detail is very good, it must be the plastic colour or a light coat of paint over similarly coloured plastic with only details picked out in gold etc..

 

11 hours ago, ED75-775 said:

but carry on I must

Firstly I would say not to persevere when you're not feeling positive about a project. It's definitely better to leave things until you have obtained the skills and ultimately  confidence and mindset by completing other side projects, rather than rushing to get things finished. On a positive note, the parts in the photo don't look that bad. I've definitely seen worse on larger and more expensive models. Some light sanding with fine modelling sandpaper around the glue smudged areas may be enough rather than further scalpel work. The small dental sanding options sounds perfect for the job. Then possibly a light coat of paint to blend in the colour if necessary. The new number plates will mask a lot of the issue once the gluing errors are removed.

 

I will mirror what @cteno4 has said regarding spray cans. They work very well on larger surfaces but you may lose a lot of detail clarity on a 1/150 scale steam engine. 

Tamiya spray cans use lacquer paint which is very hardy and I actually think the Tamiya paint is very good quality and covers well. I have used a lot on a number of projects but never on things with such fine scale. Certainly if you decide to go down this route you will need to practise your strokes in laying some thin, even coats.

"Start spraying off the model, sweep over it then paint off once past the surface you're covering"  This will minimise splatter which will be very apparent on something this size. Obviously remove the glazing pieces before undertaking this. I generally haven't splatter had issues with Tamiya TS range paints. They cover and level well providing you give them a good shake and follow the above advice when spraying. As the paint can be quite thick, you may find a slight raised ridge around areas you have masked as you have little control over air and paint flow other than off/on. 

 

Airbrush

After 12 years back in the hobby including other types of modelling, I only now (in the last 2 years anyway) have a couple of good Tamiya airbrushes and a compressor. One brush has a wider nozzle for spray coating and the other is for fine detail and I decided on Tamiya over other good manufacturers due to the build quality, price point and availability here in Japan. (They are essentially rebadged Sparmax products, the same company as Anest-Iwata with compressors made in Taiwan and airbrushes in Japan)  They are certainly not the very top end, possibly mid range but are very good quality and work very well. Spares and accessories are also readily available here and I really couldn't justify something like an Iwata Custom Micron, which the airbrush alone would cost more than all of my equipment set up, unless I was using them professionally.

 

My point is a lot of advice online can suggest to get something decent from the off. I don't think that's true when you're starting out. I started with a cheap set up from Amazon (I think about £50 for compressor and airbrush about 20 years ago) and it still provided much better results than I could get with brush painting and much more control than rattle cans. It was definitely worth it to cut my teeth on and eventually I passed it on to my father who wanted to try airbrushing after hand painted everything for half a century. For painting a flat colour it won't take very much practise and over time it will work out cheaper than buying spray cans as you do more modelling or want to start other projects like weathering as your skills build. One thing I'd wish I'd known when I bought my first set was to get a dual action gravity fed brush rather than suction. I started with a dual action suction fed airbrush and it was certainly a steeper learning curve for paint mixing and spraying. An airbrush is certainly worth the consideration at the expense of one less train. 

 

Anyway, all the best with it, whenever you decide to continue.

[ED75-775]

@cteno4 thanks for the advice. I've already PM'd you.

 

@Kamome thanks also for the good advice and some perspective. Sounds like it will be easier to airbrush the top coat so I'll have to start looking into getting my own airbrush. Sounds like a worthwhile investment in the long term, I'll start looking at what options are out there.

 

In the meanwhile, the C59 rests in my locomotive box looking a little less incomplete - I decided today to reassemble the boiler shell, smoke deflectors and smokebox front, and most of the handrails and detail parts back onto the chassis. The cab and smokebox front have been left separate and I'm sure I'll pick them back up when Jeff's tools arrive.

 

Thinking about Jeff's weathering suggestion earlier today and looking at what few prototype photos I have of C59's in action, it looks as though weathering would not be suitable to hide the damage done. While they certainly did get dirty in service, it looks as though they weren't allowed to get truly filthy which makes sense given these were designed for passenger work. So the locomotive will be restored to look as close to factory-finished as I can get it in due course.

 

Many thanks again!

Alastair

[Kamome]

Yep, certainly as they were put on expresses, they were relatively well kept. However the metal work on all of the Japanese SLs was pretty course compared with what a pristine British loco had.

 

There are quite  a few images of C59 161 pulling the last steam hauled passenger train on the Kure Line in 1970. 

 

http://railwayinmemory.sakura.ne.jp/HP0x115_C59_(1)KureLine.html

 

https://rail.hobidas.com/kokutetsu2/archives/2011/07/c59.html

 

 

 

[ED75-775]

OK, it’s been a while since I last touched this project but it’s all go again!

 

 

I finally decided today to get the cab masked up and have a gentle sand at the glue marks with the bits @cteno4 sent me.

 

So far, I’ve managed to get everything masked up, the smokebox door is ready for refinishing and the cab will need inspection by my buddy John who will have the job of repainting these bits. He’s a Warhammer 40K fan and he’s gone right in the deep end now with a 3D printer, ultrasonic cleaner and... an airbrush! He’s done some incredible stuff so far, I just need to get these bits and a few others to him now and let the fun begin!

 

Actually, I can’t say this was fun. 1mm Tamiya masking tape around the lower cab edge was incredibly frustrating! So many autistic noises of frustration... It’s all done now, so it’ll all get packed up and prepped for delivery next week.

 

And just ‘cause I needed something to calm me down, have a song from my favourite train YouTuber, Mark ‘Hyce’ Huber. Thanks guys and see you all next time!

 

 

Alastair

[cteno4]

Great you are on this alistair, it’s the way to learn! Sounds like you have some good help as well.

 

very interesting chap hyce. Picked up the railroads album, good stuff.

 

thanks

 

jeff

[Kamome]

5 hours ago, ED75-775 said:

Actually, I can’t say this was fun.

Who said anything about being fun. Come on, are you serious about trains or not?😁

 

Joking aside, I think I have more sleepless nights thinking about how to rectify my last hobby bodge than anything else.

[SwallowAngel]

4 hours ago, Kamome said:

Joking aside, I think I have more sleepless nights thinking about how to rectify my last hobby bodge than anything else.

 

That problem gets infinitely worse if you're somewhere without a good supply of spare parts for your models... 

 

My pedantic side just can't let go off of small issues and I am SO close sometimes to just call a hail mary and order a singular, overpriced part and have it shipped across the globe just to stop myself from going nuts.

[ED75-775]

@Kamome VERY serious. Far too serious in fact... which is why I can identify with @SwallowAngel and their desire to have that single, overpriced part just to fix that one locomotive. I did that with one of my ED75's a while back, several sets of plows and one replacement chassis later, it's fixed and cost me more than I would have liked to.

 

There's still a part of me suggesting I should ask Tokonami-san whether he can get that C59 body from Hogarakadou, money be damned, and at least my OCD will be satisifed. My wallet, however, won't be!

[disturbman]

A wallet should be valued less than one's sanity.

[railsquid]

I think I have one or two locos or sets acquired second-hand which have ended up, after buying replacement parts, costing more than buying the damn thing new would have (even with the Kato Hobby Center in easy cycling distance). Still, it's satisfying to get them working again.

Edited November 17, 2023 by railsquid

[ED75-775]

Well, I'm on the way to restoring even more of what little sanity I have left with this project. I delivered it to my friend John yesterday, minus the paints which will go tomorrow as I forgot them on the day. Whoops!

 

Anyway, John is incredible with what he does. He's more into wargaming than trains nowadays (although he did have a Hornby DCC train set some time back and may still do so), but he's learned some incredible stuff from doing it. So he's got the job of repairing the C59 cab and smokebox door, plus the smoke deflectors from a Märklin BR50. I'm sure he'll work wonders, case in point here's a photo of some of his Warhammer 40K Thousand Suns figurines. And yes, before anyone asks, he did give his permission for me to post this.

 

 

I'm always impressed with people who can do stuff on this scale, and John himself seemed mildly impressed with @Cat's handiworks when I briefly showed him the gaming thread on the Forum. He wasn't as impressed with my masking skills, but he has a bottle of Vallejo Liquid Mask handy so he's going to redo the masking before pointing his airbrush at the cab and door.

 

So... watch this space!

 

Alastair

[Cat]

Fun looking minis!
Good luck with the repairs.

[ED75-775]

So, quick update from me: the bits came home today. And what will be C59 161 has been reassembled for the first time since I got it on 23 June this year - that's over five months in (mostly) pieces:

 

 

John did warn that he wouldn't be able to make it look completely like factory-fresh, and at close inspection you can see where he's been with his airbrush as opposed to the original factory finish. But I'm not completely fussed about this, the locomotive looks streets better than the sadness it was when I first got it and at least for now I can run it as a complete locomotive while I wait for the inevitable rerun when I will purchase and install a new body, and add the number plates @Kamome kindly sent me.

 

TBH it's about time that Kato revisits some of its short-run steamers - the C59, fourth-series C57 (2023), Hokkaido D51 variants (2016-3/4), and Tohoku D51 (2016-5) being the big ones I'd love to see return, simply for the fact that these are the hardest to find at a 'sensible', i.e. non-scalper, price or even at all in the case of the D51 variants. Heck, even a rerun of the Koumi Line C56 would be great too, they get a bit pricy online for a locomotive that was in production for a good few years. I may just have to be cheeky and ask Kato themselves if that's ever going to happen, or if we'll get any new variants of existing SL models. You never know!

[Kamome]

12 hours ago, ED75-775 said:

TBH it's about time that Kato revisits some of its short-run steamers

Don’t get me started!  I’m still waiting for a JNR era Hokkaido C58 for my 10 series Taisetsu and an update to the out of scale 9600s, think Kato originally did with or without smoke deflectors. And then there’s the wealth of other relatively common steam locomotives that haven’t been produced by T or K. 

 

Thought that the Tomix C55 might kickstart the trend.  The Kato 8620s flew out of hobby shop doors so I assume it’s down to the technical challenges involved rather than the popularity of the locomotives. 

 

Pull your socks up Katomix!!

[Beaver]

I'm sure that making yet another commuter EMU model would generate more sales with far less time and money on development and tooling. Which is why they keep doing that. Even if there are huge numbers of steam fans the number of people who want a model of the train that goes past their house must surely be bigger still. And, just like the real thing, making the model is little more than swapping a new cosmetic front end and printing a new livery onto one of a few near identical standard car designs.

 

Economics rulez, even if Kato will sometimes do something uncommon or new because the boss wants one.

[Kamome]

Absolutely. I think they make most of their money on bullet trains which is why they are in production almost on a yearly cycle. Anyone with even the smallest interest in Japanese railways would probably have at least one, especially the newer era designs like an E5.

 

Despite talking to the head of Kato product development at the Diorama event in August, there was a slight wince when I mentioned an SL. 😁

 

 

[SwallowAngel]

10 hours ago, Kamome said:

there was a slight wince when I mentioned an SL

I don't blame him tbh. As much as I love SLs, I can only imagine how headache-inducing the engineering phase can be...