"Hand of God" steam locomotives

[SL58654号]

My beloved steam locomotives in my sizable N gauge collection can be temperamental gents and don't always run steadily, sometimes easily freezing while the throttle is up, especially at low speeds, and needing a pounding of the table or the "Hand of God' to push them into action again. I make sure that the track and wheels are squeaky clean, but my steam locomotives can still be fidgety and unsteady in their performance, meanwhile my diesels and electrics all run as smoothly as a sewing machine and can achieve low speeds without "sticking". My 58654, the jewel in the crown of my layout, curiously runs smoothly and flawlessly in reverse, while it has issues running forward. I was told it has to do with the tender drawbar as the tender wheels have pickups. Anything to improve the performance of my steam or any other locos would be welcomed. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by SL58654Gō

[cteno4]

Might look at nano lube. It’s fine oil with carbon buckyballs in it. Sort of the ultimate in nano ball bearing lubricants. It’s been touted for shays which tend to have a lot of articulation joints that tend to bind up at points gumming up the works. I got some and have been happy with it for just regular loco lubing when needed.

 

http://www.nanolube.com

 

only $4 shipping world wide. For the articulation points you only need the light oil.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[SL58654号]

But it runs perfectly in reverse. Are you sure it's not just a pickup/contact issue? 

[cteno4]

All of the mechanics in articulation are complex and may not be symmetrical. Folks experience with lubing shays which are the kings of articulation seem to show this, really one joint with a crazy action in one direction could pose a problem. Simple thing to work on and try. As with any complex mechanism it will be hard to identify exactly what is causing the issue and many times you try some things and it works and you sadly may never know exactly where the issue was but fix it.

 

jeff

[Yugamu Tsuki]

My Type 8620 (can't remember the exact number, it was a Kato and I think one from Hokkaido) has the same issues (never worked right from purchase). I gave up fiddling with it and it sits in preservation while my Yamanote does all the actual work. I'll look into nanolube when I get the line back up.

[SL58654号]

Now that you mention it, none of my steam locomotives I own have ever been given a lubrication since purchasing them, and they've doubtless gotten the most use.
Is there any similar oil for trains you'd recommend that I can buy locally? 

[Beaver]

Have you cleaned the wheels while you're about it? Often overlooked as a cause of poor running. Easiest solution is a powered cleaner that turns the wheels while rubbing them to get dirt off all the way around the wheel.

 

Living in Japan you would probably find the Tsugawa Soft-Kun the easiest wheel cleaner to acquire. Many European cleaning devices can cause problems with Japanese models as they weren't designed to avoid damaging traction tyres.

[katoftw]

12 hours ago, SL58654Gō said:

But it runs perfectly in reverse. Are you sure it's not just a pickup/contact issue? 

The fact that it runs in one direction perfect tells us its not an electrical issue.

 

It's mechanical issue of some sort.

[cteno4]

1 hour ago, katoftw said:

The fact that it runs in one direction perfect tells us its not an electrical issue.

 

It's mechanical issue of some sort.

Yes that points that way. You want a very light watch oil for the articulation joints, thicker oils will just muck up fast. You want to use it really sparingly or you will have a mess on your hands. I’ve liked the nano lube as its oil is mainly to deliver the buckyballs to the surface and the oil almost feels like it dry out after a while. While I’ve not used it on my steamers’ articulation it’s been great on bearings and gears! Little bit goes a long way.

 

thes e I find are excellent oil applicators. They suck up a tiny bit and you can sort of paint the oil on without putting on a full drop of oil with us way too much in many cases. You can search to find them even cheaper.

 

I’ve had a couple of steamers that were either squeezed on the articulation arms at some point or got a good bang and I found some of the arms a tad bend and made for rough running. Careful tweeking with fine needle nose pliers got them back in shape and things running better.

 

could also be something a bit out of line or unlined in the gear train.

 

But I’m betting mechanical.

 

jeff

[SL58654号]

@Beaver Yes, I make sure my track is always clean and I have run my engines in place to clean their wheels, or even with a cotton swab while holding them. I never run them on the floor, either, for fear of dirt. Thank you for suggesting that cleaning solution, though. 

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 Hello to Wales, by the way! Have you ever ridden on any of the Great Little Trains of Wales?
I'd die just to see them, especially the Talyllyn. We really ought to have a chat. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by SL58654Gō

[SL58654号]

9 hours ago, katoftw said:

The fact that it runs in one direction perfect tells us its not an electrical issue.

 

It's mechanical issue of some sort.

Yes, I hope you're right. I suspect that the lubricant supplied at the factory dried out in my steamers which one by one starting sticking while running after months of heavy usage and long periods of storage. 

[SL58654号]

I already own a can of 5-56 multipurpose lubricant. Will that be safe?

[cteno4]

Don’t know that one at all. For the articulation you want a light oil like you would use on motor bearings, not something medium like you would use on gears (usually a multipurpose oil is a medium weight for gears and such). You don’t want those joints getting gummed up. Watch oil would be thin like this. Again apply very very sparingly, run for a bit and see if an improvement then if some improvement try just a tad more. Can’t say enough apply with a tiny amount on a toothpick or the makeup applicator I mentioned and don’t do it by squeezing a drop (or a big drop on a toothpick) on the joint, that will create a mess as it will be very hard to clean out the excess oil out of all the articulation.

 

might also do some web searches on lubricating articulation, I’m sure there are some folks with lots of steam experience out there that may have some more ideas on the subject. Shays seem to the the one I’ve seen folks struggle with as it’s intricate articulation.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Beaver]

11 hours ago, SL58654Gō said:

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 Hello to Wales, by the way! Have you ever ridden on any of the Great Little Trains of Wales?
I'd die just to see them, especially the Talyllyn. We really ought to have a chat.

 

All except the Fairbourne (awkwardly located) and the Corris (very limited opening times). I also spent a week last summer going over what remains of the Glyn Valley line.

[ATShinkansen]

If you’re comfortable with disassembly, I would recommend checking the axles for dirt and debris.  I was shocked at how much lint and stuff was wound around the axles of my locomotives (check the needlepoint bearings on the tender as well), even though they have a dedicated space to run.  Cleaning all that crud off resulted in a night and day difference in how they ran.

[cteno4]

Agreed, muck in the axles can end up giving quirky running. Some of the locos I’ve opened up have been horrifyingly jammed with muck! Steamers are usually a bit more of a challenge but if you can just remove the bottom half to expose axles and gears you may be able to easily pick it all out with needle tip tweezers w.o removing any of the drive train. Steamers open in different ways, google your model and see if there is a web page with pictures or a youtub video on disassembly. Do take pictures as you take it apart, really helps when you go to put it back together again. If any parts look super symmetrical put a little dot in one corner of the part with a sharpie and a corresponding one where it mates to the other piece. 
 

cheers,

 

jeff

[SL58654号]

@ATShinkansen If the oiling doesn't work, I may consider that, so long as it doesn't drastically decrease their resale value (not that I'd ever dream of selling them!).
Now I wonder what would make a good repair cradle to work on them. 

[SL58654号]

@cteno4 It's this kind of oil. It's clear and I wonder if it's light enough. I think a toothpick would be a good applicator. 

[SL58654号]

@Beaver Kudos. They're all so lovely. These are photos given to me by my friend Anthony Robins who is the current head of the Japanese Railway Society when he went to Wales. If only I could get to there he offered me footplate rides. And how I'd love to sing in a Welsh choir. 

 

[cteno4]

36 minutes ago, SL58654Gō said:

@cteno4 It's this kind of oil. It's clear and I wonder if it's light enough. I think a toothpick would be a good applicator. 

I wouldn’t use general lubricants like this on your trains. I would use very specific fine lubricants for your trains. It’s worth an small investment over time to get some good specific oils for your trains. Labelles oils are an old standard. Labelles 102 is a good gear oil and labelles 108 is a good fine oil for motor bearings and articulation. But I would still recommend looking at nanotube, it’s what I’ve moved to from labelles. The 5 weight is good for articulation and bearings and the 10 weight for gears. The 85 weight is a grease that you only use on a few drive train situations. I like the nano oil as it’s very dry lubricant so it does not tend to suck up smutz. There are some fancy siliconizing treatments for gears and such but they get into a lot of hassle to do. Nano oil is applied like an oil but the buckyballs create a very slippery surface layer that is pretty stable. They do $4 international shipping.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[disturbman]

Labelle's are very good. I have never serviced a steamer, but I have used the 106 and 108 on everything else. Just don't forget to thoroughly clean the gears before applying new grease/oil. You can use IPA for that.

If you don't know what you are doing, I recommend looking at videos online. Even people working with larger scales, like Sam'sTrains, taught me a lot. His Salvage or Scrap series is quite fun to watch.

[SL58654号]

Okay, that's it. Nano oil it is. Too bad Amazon Japan doesn't sell it. 

 

 

[SL58654号]

@Beaver More of Wales' great little trains, courtesy of Mr. Anthony Robins. 

 

[cteno4]

Labelles works great as well and I bet is sold in japan. It’s usually around $10-12 for a little bottle that will last you the rest of your life.

 

jeff

[ATShinkansen]

I use Labelle as well, but I’m also thinking about switching to that Nanolube.

 

One other thing to check, I forgot to mention, is the contacts on the drawbar between the engine and tender.  I’ve had times with my Kato D51 where the contacts simply weren’t touching and had to be repositioned.