Kato 10-1777/1778 - Series 381 ‘Yakumo’

[Richof]

Just got this train with the add on. I have installed the EM13 for DCC motor control but NOT installed the decoders for lighting.  When reversing direction, the lights on both ends of the train don't change. First time I am experience this. I have other Kato trains in a similar configuration and the lights do change on forward and reverse. Am I missing something? 

Edited May 13, 2023 by disturbman

[disturbman]

I deleted the other thread. I had first move it here but then you created this one before I could intervene.

 

Not an expert, will have to wait for @chadbagor @Wolf for a more educated answer, but best solution is to get the function decoders for the head cars ;)

Edited May 13, 2023 by disturbman

[Wolf]

4 hours ago, Richof said:

When reversing direction, the lights on both ends of the train don't change

This is expected behaviour if you put a DC light unit on a DCC (and as such AC) track.

 

 

4 hours ago, Richof said:

I have other Kato trains in a similar configuration and the lights do change on forward and reverse.

This is actually unexpected behaviour, and unless these lights are somehow connected to a DCC decoder, I am at a loss why they do that.


Explanation:

DCC is technically an AC current (switching beetween + and -, square wave pattern). The Job of the DCC decoder is to handle this AC current, and rectify it to either - or + DC current, depending wich direction you wanna go.

Usual Train lightboards that are not using light bulb type of lamps (this includes the named Kato set), run normally on DC, and their directional lighting making use of the fact that LEDs only light up in one direction of running current. So if you have + on one track and - on the other, technically only one of the both connected LEDs can light up. Meaning only the LED that has its own + leg connected to the now carrying the + current tack is lighting up. The other one is connected the other way round. It takes no expert to figure they configure it the way its the one needed to have directional lights. If you change the current by running in the other direction, the other led now lights up, changing directional lighting.

DCC does not have the changing current, instead it changes the current all the time several times per second, meaning the leds will light up and shut down several times per second as well, so often and fast it seems to the human eye as if both are on at the same time.

Solution:

Unless you either cut away one LED permanently, making the train literally only have one direction in lights, or have a DCC decoder alter the AC signal to an direction specific DC current, your lights will always be on. I recommend oing with the  DCC decoder variant for obvious reasons XD

Edited May 13, 2023 by Wolf
Just my stupid grammar and some wording

[cteno4]

Excellent explanation wolf!

 

yes I agree the trains that did have properly reversing end lights were either then running on dc (not dcc) at the time they were functioning or had decoders installed for the lighting of the end cars and running on dcc. 
 

there is no way for a non decoder equipped lighting unit running off dcc ac know the set direction of travel on the dcc throttle.

 

jeff

[jappomania]

what @Wolf said is 100% correct, I add only one thing, if you have old models with bulb lamps they not only flickering continuosly, but also can overheated and cause burning, if you are lucky only the lamp, otherwise also the chassis or the shell if is too near (different voltage DC is 0-12V, DCC 15AC or more)

 

[Wolf]

2 minutes ago, jappomania said:

I add only one thing, if you have old models with bulb lamps they not only flickering continuosly, but also can overheated and cause burning

Absolutely! Thanks for adding, I edited my post to specify "light boards not using bulb type lamps" in accordance.

[chadbag]

I see this has been addressed very well.  Solution is to have decoders for the end cars.  Locomotives will have the lights and the motor controlled by the same decoder but the EMU/DMU type trains with the motor in an intermediate car need a separate function controller for the end lights.  The FL12 (or equivalent) is what you normally use for KATO end cars that have DCC compatibility.  (Zimo and ESU have FL12 compatible decoders now IIRC)

 

Plaza Japan actually has them in bulk packs for cheap (FL12).  With shipping to the US it is about $122 for 10 which is a good price since they are about $20 a piece plus shipping in the US.  Shipping to other countries will vary.