JR Pass increases from Oct 2023

[katoftw]

Official info finally released.

 

October 1 at 4 am, prices increase.

 

Can use Nozomi and other previously blocked trains. But extra costs I involved.

 

JRP_pressrelease_en_230802.pdf

[Yugamu Tsuki]

Brilliant, thank you. Now to do some number crunching. I'll need to look into if upgrading is worth it at all for my trip next year or just grin and bear the slightly longer non-Nozomi shinkansen.

 

-Geeze, looking like my long trip back and forth between Tokyo and Kumamoto will only be 76300 even with all the stops along the way and added trips, unsure if JR will really me that valuable. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Yugamu Tsuki
cost total

[Guest]

So what is the Nozomi surcharge for Tokyo to Hakata (with a green pass)?

[chadbag]

28 minutes ago, Bob Martin said:

So what is the Nozomi surcharge for Tokyo to Hakata (with a green pass)?

 

It's all spelled out in the PDF file attached by katoftw.  The appendix shows ¥8140.

 

[chadbag]

2 hours ago, Yugamu Tsuki said:

Brilliant, thank you. Now to do some number crunching. I'll need to look into if upgrading is worth it at all for my trip next year or just grin and bear the slightly longer non-Nozomi shinkansen.

 

 

The biggest problem with the non-Nozomi is the frequency.  The additional travel time is minimal.  The wait for the one or sometimes two per hour train vs the every 5-8 minutes or whatever is the big benefit for those in a hurry.

 

[chadbag]

This is interesting (from the PDF above):

 

Quote

(2)
other services to JAPAN RAIL PASS holders. The details will be announced on the JAPAN RAIL

Discounts on the use of tourist facilities in Japan
Starting from October 1, 2023, major tourist facilities in Japan are planning to offer discounts and

PASS website (https://japanrailpass.net/) around early September when available.

 

That might make it slightly more palatable (>50% increase in some cases for passes)

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

It's all spelled out in the PDF file attached by katoftw.  The appendix shows ¥8140.

 

Ha, I never scrolled down far enough to see that. Thanks.  Have to weigh off if that’s worth the 1 hour (17%) time savings (probably not).

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Bob Martin

[Yugamu Tsuki]

Yeah, though I usually dedicate a full day to transit so the time schedule doesn't matter too much to me. As opposed to work life, my vacation life is a lot looser with needing to be places on time without getting anxiety.

 

And indeed about the discounts; I am waiting until September to see what is offered. Since we'll be hitting all the traditional places (my mom's first trip) I expect a lot of them may be on the plan.

[Guest]

This is an odd clause in the appendix…

 

There are a limited number of reserved seats in Green cars and Ordinary cars. Tickets may not be available even when there are open seats.

 

Does that imply they allot only so many seats for pass holders?

[maihama eki]

It will be interesting to see what the increases are for the various regional passes.

 

"The prices will also be revised for the other rail passes for travelers visiting Japan that are offered by each JR company (excluding JR Shikoku). Please see the website, etc. of each JR company."

[chadbag]

3 hours ago, Bob Martin said:

This is an odd clause in the appendix…

 

There are a limited number of reserved seats in Green cars and Ordinary cars. Tickets may not be available even when there are open seats.

 

Does that imply they allot only so many seats for pass holders?

 

Yes.  It implies that in my reading.  Its like an airline advertising $300 to NYC but then you log in and its $500 as there were only 4 seats allocated at the lower price.  

 

They (JR Central/JR West/Kyushu) don't want pass holders causing problems for their normal high paying clientele but want to justify the higher price of the pass (expanded benefits) and capture extra income for those willing to pay it when the trains have empty seats anyway.

 

[chadbag]

1 hour ago, maihama eki said:

It will be interesting to see what the increases are for the various regional passes.

 

"The prices will also be revised for the other rail passes for travelers visiting Japan that are offered by each JR company (excluding JR Shikoku). Please see the website, etc. of each JR company."

 

Yeah. Instead of a 21 day JR pass we may plan all our long haul stuff al in 7 days or whatever and then use regional or city/metro passes or whatever fits our plans for the rest of the time -- we usually do 3 - 3 1/2 week trips -- in order to not max out ourtravel budget.  At the higher price, paying for a pass that might not be used as much but provided flexibility and convenience may not be worth it as much as a more careful planning and maximization of pass use and planning.

 

 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

Yes.  It implies that in my reading.  Its like an airline advertising $300 to NYC but then you log in and its $500 as there were only 4 seats allocated at the lower price.  

 

I don’t think that’s an accurate analogy. Train seats don’t change prices like those of airlines (no 2 passengers pay the same price on an airline it seems), where rates fluctuate constantly.  I don’t think JR uses “surge” pricing (ie. prices do not change based on capacity or season). 
 

To add, of the nine 3-week green passes I’ve had in the past 7 years, I’ve never not gotten a seat.

 

That clause probably means “JR reserves the right to refuse service” 😜

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Bob Martin

[katoftw]

4 hours ago, maihama eki said:

It will be interesting to see what the increases are for the various regional passes.

 

"The prices will also be revised for the other rail passes for travelers visiting Japan that are offered by each JR company (excluding JR Shikoku). Please see the website, etc. of each JR company."

JRK and JRW have already raised their regional pass prices in the past few months.

[katoftw]

10 hours ago, Yugamu Tsuki said:

Brilliant, thank you. Now to do some number crunching. I'll need to look into if upgrading is worth it at all for my trip next year or just grin and bear the slightly longer non-Nozomi shinkansen.

 

-Geeze, looking like my long trip back and forth between Tokyo and Kumamoto will only be 76300 even with all the stops along the way and added trips, unsure if JR will really me that valuable. 

I don't see it worh it.

 

Cost of pass is plus 50%. Then pay another 4000-8000 yen to ride those trains.

 

Not sure the passes are worth it before you even think about Nozomi.

 

Tokyo to Osaka. 14,000 yen. 7 day pass 50,000 yen. None of its adding up to the passes being viable options. A few scenarios will work.

 

The regional passes have gone up about 15-20 percent. And they now offer much better value.

[katoftw]

Regional passes

 

https://www.jreast.co.jp/e/pdf/press_20230802_regional_pass.pdf

https://www.westjr.co.jp/global/en/pdf/press_20230726.pdf

https://www.jrkyushu.co.jp/english/pdf/20231001_pricerevision.pdf

JRE have raised a whooping 20-50%
JRW and JRK have raised between 10-20%

[Tony Galiani]

I have been watching Solo Travel Japan's videos and he seems to be promoting JAL a bit lately.  In his most recent video he mentions a JAL Domestic Pass for airline travel within Japan.  No idea how it stacks up against a rail pass but could be an intriguing option depending on where one is traveling.

What really amazes me are his pre-flight airport meals.  US$5.60 for a small meal at Kagoshima airport.  In the US that won't buy a sandwich much less a hot dish.

Ciao,

Tony

[cteno4]

1 hour ago, Tony Galiani said:

What really amazes me are his pre-flight airport meals.  US$5.60 for a small meal at Kagoshima airport.  In the US that won't buy a sandwich much less a hot dish.

Wouldn’t buy a bottle of water or cup of coffee!

 

jeff

[chadbag]

On 8/4/2023 at 1:07 PM, Bob Martin said:

I don’t think that’s an accurate analogy. Train seats don’t change prices like those of airlines (no 2 passengers pay the same price on an airline it seems), where rates fluctuate constantly.  I don’t think JR uses “surge” pricing (ie. prices do not change based on capacity or season). 
 

To add, of the nine 3-week green passes I’ve had in the past 7 years, I’ve never not gotten a seat.

 

That clause probably means “JR reserves the right to refuse service” 😜

 

 

I didn't describe "surge" pricing.  What I described is allocation.  In the airlines, they allocated 4 seats at $300.  JR allocates 4 seats for pass holders.  (actual numbers are bound to be something else -- I used 4 just as an example).

 

This is what the bit on JR implies.   They allocate X number of seats for pass holders to purchase and once they are gone they are gone, irrespective if they have empty seats otherwise available.

 

[katoftw]

@chadbag I'd agree that makes sense.  I'd make a guess that the JR companies asked for more money to accept passes and wanted limits on how many pass holders can occupy reserved seats.  I think they'll set limits of 50%.  Unreserved will still be as many as they can fit, so no change.

---

 

I personally would have like to see the passes cheaper and only the use of unreserved seating being permitted.  And you pay a seat fee to upgrade to a reserved seat.  First trip I reserved most seats cos it was included.  Second trip I didn't bother as it was easier just to walk up and get on the next train in a unreserved seat.  As most of my trains were from originating station.

7 day JR pass = 50,000 yen

Tokyo to Osaka = 13,800 / 14,400 (Unreserved / reserved seating prices, rounded to nearest 100 yen)

Osaka to Hiroshima = 9,900 / 10,400
Hiroshima to Tokyo  = 18,400 / 18,900
Totals = 42,100/43,700

How much more local travels you gotta do to get another 6,000-8,000 yen to break even.  Let alone make a pass viable to get savings.  Seven day pass now is near useless.  14 and 21 seems better, but only cos you have more time to use it and get your monies worth.

14 day JR pass = 80,000

 

Tokyo to Osaka = 13,800 / 14,400 (Unreserved / reserved seating prices, rounded to nearest 100 yen)

Osaka to Hiroshima = 9,900 / 10,400
Hiroshima to Kumamoto = 12,500 / 13,500
Kumamoto to Tokyo = 24,900 / 27,000
Totals = 61,100 / 65,300

Again 15,000-19,000 yen of extra travels required to break even.  WTF...

Anywayz, the nation eide JR passes are out for me.  I cannot see them being viable options.  The regional passes, even with their October the 1st increase are a lot more appealing now.  For example the JRW 5 day Kansai-Hiroshim pass.  New price is 17,000 yen.  Still Osaka to Hiroshima and return is 20,000 yen combined.  And then add a few local travels in, Miyajima Nara etc, and you get good value.

Edited August 6, 2023 by katoftw

[JR East]

Don't look only to the national JR Pass. 

 

There are local JR pass plus .... alll other offers that are now very competitive combined with single tickets (eg : Kintetsu, Odakyu, Tobu ...). It's time to (re)discover the other companies

[Yavianice]

Why don't they just abolish the JR Pass. It's useless anyway. This is the same as the "quiet firing" phenomenon where employers are too polite to just fire employees. Just say you don't want tourists and just abolish it, job done.

 

Sidenote, I have no clue why JR East has these strange regions for their JR Pass. They don't even a JR East pass for all of JR East. Or why they don't just offer a JR East + Hokkaido Pass, that could lure some more tourists to Hokkaido. And why don't they offer a non-sequential pass like they used to have.

 

Don't see tourists going to Kyushu, Shikoku or Hokkaido (that isn't Sapporo) anymore by train (if not already living in Asia) because of the odd flight connections to the less visited areas from western countries.

 

Fits nicely with the times though. F*ck trains, just use the airplane. 

Also pretty sure that those "bonuses" are just hot air. Most of the discounts offered by regional passes just give a few bucks here or there. Attractions in general in Japan are not that expensive. And the local JR passes at least offer special validity for tourist buses that do cost more, something the JR pass will probably never do.

"Here is a 200 yen coupon for Museum X" woop-dee-do.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Yavianice

[chadbag]

I don't think the JR Pass is (was after October) useless as it gave a certain amount of spontaneity to your travels and you had a hard upper limit on what train transportation would cost (providing you stick with JR).  Instead of having to plan everything in advance and worry about transportation costs, I had them already covered and paid for and knew I could choose to go to Tokyo or Hakata or Sapporo as late as the same day if I wanted to.  For me it wasn't about maximizing value, though of course I tried to use it at least as much as its cost, but rather, it was that it made it much more easy to just take it day by day and decide on day trips or over night trips at the last minute.

 

Now we'll probably do regional passes and a 7 day JR pass and have to pre-plan everything much more tightly.  And the JAL domestic tourist rates may be more interesting.

[disturbman]

He means after October.

Edited August 7, 2023 by disturbman

[chadbag]

12 minutes ago, disturbman said:

He means after October.

 

Even after October it's not useless.   The value may not be there for most people with the higher price but it certainly has not lost its usefulness 🙂