why not ask the British about Dapol and Graham Farish...

[Nozomi]

I spent last summer in the lake district had look around english Hobby stores. I ended up with a Kato Eurostar (runs perfect) Graham Farish super voyager in Crosscountry liver and Dapol Super Voyager in Virgin Trains livery.

 

My experience Graham Farish set is somewhat negative. Train is well made with lots of details and the paint job is superb BUT the engine realy sucks. The train hardly moves and there is no chance that it can get all coaches up an incline. So terribly slow compared to all Kato, Micro Ace, Tomix and Greenmax and even Fleichschmann Trains that I have. A problems seems to be the wheels they turn around easily.

 

The Dapol ist looks even better but is also slow but not as slow as the Graham Farish set. The couplings are very odd. Magnetic but they look out of place.

 

So if anyone of you has experience with Graham Farish and Dapol let me know what you think.

 

I heard that Dapol is in tooling stage for the Virgin Trains Pendolino, I rode one of those , great breakfast und a cool shop. Shall I give Dapol another chance?

[to2leo]

I heard similar stories with GraFar since it is from the notorious Bachmann.  Dapol is the better of the two but still have issues you as stated.  Perhaps Kato will look into developing the Javelin trains for London 2010 Olympics.  I also heard from a British model railroad magazine that Kato will release Eurostar extension set...though I cannot confirm it via WWW.

[grumbeast]

I have (and kinda still am) a UK modeller (I may be in Canada now, but I'm Welsh)

 

I started off with the Poole Grafar stuff, laid off UK outline for ages, now have some newer stuff.

 

With the old Grafar stuff, the mouldings were pretty poor, and for ages they had 3 pole motors that were lousy.  Recent Bachmann stuff has improved but I've also noticed that the new things I have do run very slowly, but I have to confess are smooth and quiet.

(a new Class 47 and Class 45)

 

I have one of the Dapol Voyagers, wonderful paintjob, runs ok, but hellfire is it noisy, grinds around the layout.  I have a couple of the Hymeks too, and same thing, run nicely but loud. 

 

The Dapol 9F looks nice and runs ok, and the Farish Jubilee well, is smooth and quiet, looks great, but the tender drive and the drivers don't really jive well so sometimes it pushes the locomotive along with the main drivers not rotating.

 

Now I have some experience with Kato, I have to say, mechanism-wise, Kato wins so hands down its not funny.  On looks Both Dapol and Grafar have improved a lot, and are certainly comparable.

 

To be fair, I've read that the Dapol stuff (and grafar) runs way better after a lengthy running in, which I haven't had chance to do yet

You can get lucky with older Farish, I had a 4MT that was slick, silent, looked great and could pull a ton.

 

If Dapol came out with a Pendolino I'd certainly consider it, and I am planning on getting a Britannia when they come out, but thats more for personal reasons (they ran a lot on the Cardiff --> London mainline where I cut my teeth trainspotting (before my time buy hey!

 

Anyhow thats my tuppence worth

 

Graham

[Claude_Dreyfus]

See my comments on this thread http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,2066.msg19853.html#msg19853 for some of the more memorable aspects of UK outline modelling...

[CaptOblivious]

Is the GraFar set having troubles going uphill because it's not getting enough traction, or the motor isn't powerful enough? If I'm reading you right, it's a traction issue. Someone here mentioned a product called Bullfrog Snot that perhaps you might try. Is there room inside the shell to add a little weight to the motorized coach? That can help too. I'm guessing that if it is a slow runner, then it's geared pretty low, and with enough traction should be able to haul quite a lot, it's just starved for that traction.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

It could be that you bought a pup, as the BachFar 220 (Voyager) has a pretty good reputation in terms of reliability. What could be an issue with gradients is the lack of traction tires on BachFar products - a frequent grumble with British modellers.

 

Dapol have had some real quality control issues, and it very much depends on which batch of their Voyagers you bought. If it is the first batch, then they do have some issues with their wheels being very (some say too) fine, having a nasty habit of derailing over points, as well as rocking quite violently at speed. If you have variable track-laying ability, as with me, then they will very quickly find you out.

 

The BachFar Voyager never made it to our club layout, but at it's peak we were running up to 6 of the Dapol examples. For those that have seen pictures of our layout, you would have seen the incline, which is about 1/40. Certainly the Dapol set could make that without too many issues...

 

I have not heard about slow running characteristics for the Bachfar model, hence my thought you may have a 'Friday Afternoon' model, but certainly Dapol motors can suffer with this - especially their class 66.

[Nozomi]

thank you all for your replys.

 

well I guess I have to accept that these products don't run as fast as the japanese ones. the difference in speed is mindboggling. I have a large double track layout (all unitrack double track pieces) and if I place the dapol or graham farish on the inside track (shorter distance) and the kato on the outside track, the kato overtakes the british models twice (in one round) !

 

I hope that Kato will do some british models. The class 395 uk-mini-shinkansen would be a logic choice...

[Claude_Dreyfus]

 

 

I hope that Kato will do some british models. The class 395 uk-mini-shinkansen would be a logic choice...

 

 

So do I, however I suspect the market just is not there for Kato. I am suprised that the Eurostar made its comeback, as I understand Kato were very disappointed with the volume of sales for the first batches - and that was Europe-wide. Obviously the class 395 has a lot of similarities to the existing 885 series, so there is a small chance.

 

They (Kato - or rather Kato under its 'Hobby Train' guise) do produce a class 66 - in its various European forms - however this is to a scale 1/160 as opposed to the UK 1/148.

[Welshbloke]

I've been decidedly underwhelmed by Farish both before and after the Bachmann takeover. Dapol gave them a much-needed kick to at least try to reach standards that Fleischmann have had since the 1990s but they still haven't adopted proper close couplings across their range. Mind you, their OO range suffers too - NEM coupler pockets mounted in such a way that you can't use them with NEM standard close couplers, for example...

[EWS60008]

Although I am now building a Japanese N gauge layout (this is covered in another topic under "Personal Projects"), I do have a few British trains in N gauge that made by Farish that are 3 Class 60's plus some rolling stock and a Dapol Class 67 (Comes in the Wrexham & Shropshire set) and some rolling stock such as the MkIII DVT and one standard class carriage both in Virgin Trains livery.

 

Well here are my verdicts on both British Model Train Makers.

 

Dapol: In detail wise, they are the best of the two as they DMU's and coaching stock have detailed interiors and most of their new DMU's (Diesel Multiple Units) and carriages released now have a socket fitted inside so that the user can plug in and fit a lighting unit with ease. The Dapol locomotives (this is based on my Class 67 by the way) are very well made and the detail and the directional lights are very good on the model. But I do have a gripe with Dapol though regarding their locomotives, they are quite noisy even though I have lubricated the bearings before use as advised by Dapol in their user manual. They are louder than my Tomix models when running at a moderate speed (about 50% power) but other than this issue. I think Dapol models are impressive overall and their new models that are planned to be released this year like the Class 92, HST and the Class 142 Pacer are something that I am looking forward to adding to my N gauge fleet!

 

Graham Farish: Overall and going by the performance of my three Class 60's that I have by them. Their model locomotives are like a sleeping Lion as when they are first run. They can be sluggish and my 60006 did stutter a bit when it was ran for the first time, but after about 10 mins of warming up. She did improve on running once the gears had started to bed in, also the pulling power from the Farish Class 60 is very good and there are no traction tyres on these newer models unlike on the old Farish stuff that is basically pants for pulling power and you would be lucky if they could pull a skin off a rice pudding, let alone a full size train! Detail-wise. Farish are starting to improve in this field as their new tooling for the Class 37 and the Class 47 is a major improvement over the older ex-peco tooling and I hope that they do make new tooling for the Class 40 and the Class 50 locomotives in the future as this will bring their accuracy up to match that of the Class 37 and 47 then.

[Bernard]

EWS - What type of pole motors do the Dapol & Farish use?

[EWS60008]

The Motors used by Dapol & Farish (and based on my model Class 67 and 60's) are 5-pole central mounted motors with a shaft leading to both wheel trucks as this allows AWD on all axles thus giving maximum traction .

[Claude_Dreyfus]

The Farish class 60 is a very impressive machine, with good haulage power...on a par with many Japanese models once properly run in...

 

Interestingly, I have heard that Dapol could well be using a Tomix mechanism (or a very close derivation) for their Pacer model.

[Fenway Park]

It will have to be a stretched version of their Kiha 01/02/03 and Nambu Jukan 4 wheel chassis as the Pacer has a longer wheel base.

 

The Tomix version with both cars powered works well. I have not had to use the extra weights contained in the box.

[EWS60008]

The Farish class 60 is a very impressive machine, with good haulage power...on a par with many Japanese models once properly run in...

 

Interestingly, I have heard that Dapol could well be using a Tomix mechanism (or a very close derivation) for their Pacer model.

Very true there regarding the Farish 60, I think that as long as the layout is big enough to cope with the length of train in question (mine sadly isn't ), I think the Farish 60 could haul a prototypical rake of 30 TEA 100 tonne tankers behind it without slipping as the model seems to be well balenced in weight and pulling power which I have yet to see on the Dapol Diesel Locomotive models (going by my Class 67).

 

As for the 142, it would be great if Dapol used the Tomix mechanism on this model as in my experiences, Tomix makes good drivelines for their models and I have not had a problem with them up to yet. Also I hope Dapol puts a bit of weight in the chassis on the 142 and the fourthcoming HST models, so they don't wheelslip on inclines which would be essential if the user intends to run a full HST rake on their layout.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

My 60s (I have two) will happily haul a rake of 14 ROCO Ferrywagons around our layout - which includes a 1/40 gradient. It's the only UK outline locomotive to be able to do so....in fact it's the only non-Japanese loco to have that haulage capacity. Power as per the prototype; pity the prototype could be completely withdrawn this year 

[EWS60008]

Its a shame really that these locomotives are getting persioned off so to speak as there is only 4 left in service and surely replacing the Class 60's with incompitent underpowered double-headed Class 66's on the tanker duties is somewhat bizzarre and surely more costly than it would take to refurbish the Class 60's (which is badly needed) and replace the Mirrlees Blackstone with something less prone to breaking such as the General Electric FDL 16 or the MTU V4000 unit. I know that it may need some modifications to the frame internally but it would give these locomotives a longer service life on the tracks .

 

Meanwhile going back to the model. I own three of these workhorses in N gauge and they are 60006 in British Steel Blue (now known as Corus and 60006 and 60033 prototypes were painted into Corus silver back in 2000), and the other two locomotives are 60052 in EWS livery and 60084 in Transrail Triple Grey livery. The next model Class 60 I am planning to get will be 60059 in Loadhaul Black & Orange livery and I am planning to have 60008 (my beast) modelled in N gauge as well. But 60008 will wear its final EWS livery that was applied to the real locomotive in 2005 until it was retired in 2007 after sustaining a major failure to its power unit .

[Claude_Dreyfus]

One of the main issues with the class 66, as well as have a very poor build-quality (no good having 98% reliable engines when the bodywork is falling apart around them), is that fact they were intended to be 'all things to all men'. It was very quickly realised that they could not replace the class 56s in south Wales as they weren't powerful enough, nor did they compare too favourably to the ballasted 37/7 class. I think they finally got round it by shorting in train lengths!

 

They have seriously struggled when used on the Mendip stone traffic, and I'm not too sure how they will cope with the Scunthorpe iron ore trains, or the heaviest of the oil workings (both, as you know, being class 60 duties). It is ironic that of the main line classes inherited by EWS/DBS only the 37s look likely to see out 2010 - and they are 50 years old this year!

 

It has become clear that the one size fits all policy does not really work. The 66 essentially was designed to hoover up all the duties from type 2 upwards, as a result you have 3,300 hp locos on short engineering trains, high speed intermodals and the aforementioned iron ores. The solution, as you said, is either to double-head, or simply to reduce the capacity of the train so a 66 can manage it...

 

For some of the services that just cannot be 66 hauled, they are drafting in the far more superior 59/2 - proof that GM can actually build a decent locomotive for the European market. That said, they were designed specifically for hauling heavy coal trains.

 

It is also odd that whilst DBS is withdrawing the 60s (and some - notibly 60071, 81 and 98 - will in all honesty never run again), Frieghtliner is taking delivery of their class 70.

 

In modelling terms, I have the EWS one - 60052 - and a Transrail example - 60061. This was a limited edition, however it sold so well that Bachmann decided they would do a Transrail example in 'production' anyway! They are nice models, but what I don't get - it's the same with the 66 - is why they did not fit the front air dam. I really don't get the 66 as Dapol managed to fit this without a problem, making their 66 as far better model in my opinion. I am also eyeing up the Mainline blue 60078 which is heavily reduced in my local model shop...

[railsquid]

Interestingly, I have heard that Dapol could well be using a Tomix mechanism (or a very close derivation) for their Pacer model.

 

6 years later...

[IST]

6 years later...

 

We will never see that Pacer model. :-(

[dabsan]

Hi, last week I bought a Dapol Class 56 in Colas Rail Freight livery and it looks great and runs fantastic! For many years I didn't buy any UK trains but just recently started buying a few again and I must say I am impressed with them even though they are a bit expensive!

[railsquid]

Class 52 "Eastern Western Venturer" from Dapol, lovely loco apart from the fact that it failed on its first run.

 

 

I should have got a frequent flyer card for it given the way it's had to go back-and-forth across the globe for repair...

[Davo Dentetsu]

I panic every time my new Farish 47 runs, because the fate of my very first N scale loco, another Farish 47, is locally known as "the Bradford (stressing that was the layout's name) fire of 2010."

 

I need another chassis for it if I ever hope to see "Waverley" on the rails again.   :(

Edited May 8, 2016 by Azumanga Davo

[HantuBlauLOL]

i just realized..

 

are british trains that small? i mean they're even in 1/148 scale.. 148/150 times larger than the japanese models, and with 1435mm gauge.

[railsquid]

Yup, that's right.