Shinkansen 700 or N700 Series : Tomix or Kato, which one to choose?

[Jamy]

Hello Everybody!!

First, please excuse my bad foreigner's english...

So, like I've writed in my "presentation-topic", I'm just back from Japan and I fell in love of shinkansen...

Since I'm back in my home, I'm searching for a model scale of Shinkansen, especially 700 or N700 series (those where I've been into).

I've discovered that there is 2 japanese manufacturers : Kato and Tomix.

Like I'm new, I've tried to read maximum things about it, but essentials articles are in Japanese, and unfortunatly, I 'm not reading japanese...  

 

So I've got some questions for Shinkansen from Tomix and Kato specialists...

 

_I've read that Tomix N700 has got a very good power transmission with power contact on everycar, transmitted by the couplers, but I'd like to know if this powered-system is used for the "normal" 700 series of Tomix's Shinkansen (92264 model).

_I've read that Kato trains are DCC friendly, so it's easy to put DCC decoder into easily, but how is it on Tomix trains? Is it easy too?

_Is it easy to put interiors lights into the passengers cars for the Tomix or Kato?

 

In generally, wich one do you prefer : 700 or N700? Tomix or Kato?

 

Thank you for your help for these few beginners questions!! :)

[David]

I would prefer Kato - the DCC installation is simple (but check the exact product number, Kato has several models, not all are drop in DCC), compared to Tomix which is known to more difficult then normal. The latest Kato models also have full body couplers like the real thing. Kato lights are straight forward to install (make sure you get the LED versions).

 

I would suggest Kato's N700 Nozomi , which is the most recent:

 

Flywheel drive (smoother operation when the track is dirty, and less jerky start and stop)

Drop in DCC installation

Compatible with Kato lighting kits (suggest 11-209 or 11-210 led kits, the bulb kits get very hot)

Full body couplers

 

Kato 10-547 (4 car basic set, required, it contains the motor car and the head cars)

Kato 10-548 (4 car add-on set)

Kato 10-549 (8 car add-on set)

 

Plaza-Japan

http://stores.ebay.com/Plaza-Japan?_nkw=n700+kato&submit=Search

 

Hobby Search

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10062433

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10062434

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10062435

 

Hobby World

http://www.hwjapan.com/sh/KAT517605.aspx

http://www.hwjapan.com/sh/KAT517612.aspx

http://www.hwjapan.com/sh/KAT517629.aspx

 

Kato also sells it as part of a starter set (4 car basic set + loop of Unitrack + Kato power supply/throttle):

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10073822

You may be able to find this set in your own country, as Kato starter sets are one of the more common Japanese prototype items that get imported.

 

The one advantage of Tomix (if you are willing to go through auction sites to get out of production trains) is that there is a wider variety of 700 series variants, such as the grey and yellow Hikari Rail Star.

[bill937ca]

Here are a couple of reviews by Doug Coster of Japanese Model Supplies.

 

http://jmtn.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/tomix-n700-shinkansen-model-review/

 

http://jmtn.wordpress.com/2007/12/22/kato-n700-shinkansen-model-review/

[Jamy]

Thank you for your responses.

 

You speak all about the N700.

But concerning the "normal" 700, wich one do you prefer?

Is there, on the 700, the couplers with power connector, included on the Tomix's N700? Or is it a new thing only on the N700?

Thank you! :)

[Martijn Meerts]

I think the N700 is the first one with those couplings. They used them on their newest 0 series as well.

 

I have the 700 series Hikari Rail Star, as well as the Dr. Yellow based on the 700 series. Both are Tomix, and they run well. Neither of them has the new coupler system though.

 

As for DCC, yes, Kato has some trains that accept their own drop-in decoders, but they have a very limited feature set. Some Kato locomotives also accept drop-in boards designed for Kato's American loco's. Tomix and MicroAce require you to solder in the decoder. That said, I'll be soldering in the decoder even into Kato trains that accept their drop-in decoder, due to the limited feature set on the Kato decoders.

[disturbman]

So does this means that all the new Tomix Shinkansens (like the E3) are going to be equiped with this feature?

[Guest ___]

Hello Everybody!!

First, please excuse my bad foreigner's english...

So, like I've writed in my "presentation-topic", I'm just back from Japan and I fell in love of shinkansen...

Since I'm back in my home, I'm searching for a model scale of Shinkansen, especially 700 or N700 series (those where I've been into).

I've discovered that there is 2 japanese manufacturers : Kato and Tomix.

Like I'm new, I've tried to read maximum things about it, but essentials articles are in Japanese, and unfortunatly, I 'm not reading japanese...  

 

So I've got some questions for Shinkansen from Tomix and Kato specialists...

 

_I've read that Tomix N700 has got a very good power transmission with power contact on everycar, transmitted by the couplers, but I'd like to know if this powered-system is used for the "normal" 700 series of Tomix's Shinkansen (92264 model).

_I've read that Kato trains are DCC friendly, so it's easy to put DCC decoder into easily, but how is it on Tomix trains? Is it easy too?

_Is it easy to put interiors lights into the passengers cars for the Tomix or Kato?

 

In generally, wich one do you prefer : 700 or N700? Tomix or Kato?

 

Thank you for your help for these few beginners questions!! :)

 

Don't worry about your English, it's fine. We're a pretty internationalized board and realize English is not everyone's native language. (^_^)

 

TOMIX vs. KATO is a matter of personal taste. Some people prefer one over the other. I believe the TOMIX has all-wheel pickup on the N700, which allows it to run smooth over bad track, dirty track, or places where there are voltage drops. (Someone correct me if I am wrong on the model, I do not run shinkansens)

 

The 700 series and N700 (along with its Thai brother the 700T) are all different trains, both internally and externally. The N700 has a tighter cab and have only been in serve for a couple of years. The 700-series have been around for about twelve years now.

 

Here is a picture of an N700 beside a 700 series. http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/5785363.jpg The 700's use to bare the slogan "Ambitious Japan" on the sides until 2007.

[Guest ___]

So does this means that all the new Tomix Shinkansens (like the E3) are going to be equiped with this feature?

 

If TOMIX did this with ALL their trains, I'd be willing to try TOMIX again.

[disturbman]

The 700 series and N700 (along with its Thai brother the 700T) are all different trains, both internally and externally. The N700 has a tighter cab and have only been in serve for a couple of years. The 700-series have been around for about twelve years now.

 

As a matter of fact the 700T is taiwanese, not thai.

 

If Tomix did this with ALL their trains, I'd be willing to try Tomix again.

 

For sure it could be nice, maybe they are implementing the all-wheel pick up on thier Shinkansen first. I'm not sure it will be doable on regular EMUs or DMUs.

[Guest ___]

LOL, sorry Vince, I was using Thai for short for Taiwanese

[Jamy]

Thank you for all your responses!

 

I think that I will take a "normal" 700 first : I like very much its face :)

 

So concerning the DCC, if the kato's decoders are a little bit to simple and if it's better to solder them, so it's not a really advantage in this case to take a Kato one, and on this point, maybe Kato and Tomix are equal?

 

And on the 700, as Martijn Meerts said, there is no "power-connected" couplers on the Tomix's 700. So it's no more an advantage for Tomix, and one time again, Kato and Tomix are equal on this point...

 

It will not help me! ;)

 

How about the reliability of the both models? Which one is the better?

Concerning the visual, I've seen on photos that there is grey marking on the roof of the Kato's 700, no mark on the Tomix (is there any decals for it included?).

On the Tomix, windows of the passenger cars seems to be more realistic.

Let me post some photos to explain.

 

On Tomix version, there is the "JR700" marking and hole for LCD system

 

 

[disturbman]

Go one way or the other. There is no real answer to your question here. Kato and Tomix are usually both quite good. Some people here (mostly because of some DCC issues they had with Tomix products) prefer Kato to Tomix. But others (like Marti) don't agree with them. You will allways find some pros and cons.

 

If you really love the all whell pick up system, go for the Tomix N700 and wait for them to release a new 700 Series. If not, take some more time and hurt your brain a little bit more, I assure you are going to love the end of the story anyway.

[Guest ___]

It all comes down to personal choice with the TOMIX vs. KATO. To this point my experience with TOMIX has not been stellar, and my experience with KATO has been orgasmic. Of course, I'm pretty temperamental so my opinions are subject to change on a whim if one of my KATO's decides to give me fits.

[Bernard]

Jamy - Are you going to run the train DCC and if so, what system will you be using?

[Jamy]

Hello Bernard!

I'm a very beginner in railroads systems, and since my kid's first train, I've seen that many progress have been made, especially in electronic driving.

And I'm very interested to run with DCC equipements, but for the moment I've got nothing, so I can't tell you for the moment wich system I will use. What could be your advices?

Thank you!!

[Bernard]

Hello Bernard!

I'm a very beginner in railroads systems, and since my kid's first train, I've seen that many progress have been made, especially in electronic driving.

And I'm very interested to run with DCC equipements, but for the moment I've got nothing, so I can't tell you for the moment wich system I will use. What could be your advices?

Thank you!!

Hi Jamy - there are a list of questions you are going to want to ask yourself, for example:

How many trains to I want to run at a time, how big of a layout do I want, will it be a temporary or permanent layout and what track do I want to use? (and there will be more that you will be asking)  

 

If the track you want to use is either Kato Unitrack or Tomix Finetrack, you can start out with DC and at a later time change over to DCC.

 

My suggestion to you as a Newbie, start out simple at first, buy the train you like best and have fun running trains. As you start learning more about trains you can start making changes/advances to your set up. (And keep asking questions we're all here to help. :icon_thumleft:)

[ChrisV]

I've got the Kato N700 and the Tomix 700 series Shinkansens + the Hikari Railstar, DR Yellow etc.

The Kato N700 is quite noisy I feel. It is much louder than the Tomix 700 series. The N700 has a difficult coupler system I find. It does run well and has a tilt mechanism in it so it runs around curved rail quite nicely.

The Tomix versions are much quieter and look great. They run well with the exception of a ' coughing' syndrome that affects them after a while. The couplers are much easier to operate and it generally runs ok.

 

If I was to choose - I'd say your pretty safe with either but the Tomix would be my choice  but then again, its a line ball.

[Jamy]

If the track you want to use is either Kato Unitrack or Tomix Finetrack, you can start out with DC and at a later time change over to DCC.

I didn't think that the track has got its own importance.

Isn't possible to equip any train with DCC decoder and use it one any track?

In fact, I was thinking to use "no-named" flexible track to run the trains...

 

My suggestion to you as a Newbie, start out simple at first, buy the train you like best and have fun running trains. As you start learning more about trains you can start making changes/advances to your set up. (And keep asking questions we're all here to help. :icon_thumleft:)

Thank you for your advice!

But I was wondering wich investisment will be the best. I don't want to buy something that will be unusable in next future (about DCC capacity especially) or because I must made a choice between two or three brand.

Is it possible to use equally Tomix's, Microace's and Kato's train on the same track?

In DC condition, and in DCC condition?

Is it possible to use them on generic tracks?

Su much questions... sorry about me!!

 

And thank you all so much for your help! :)

[Martijn Meerts]

DCC can theoretically be installed in every train, regardless of which track you use. The only thing to be aware of, if you want to control turnouts digitally as well, the Kato and Tomix turnout motors use a different system compared to for example Minitrix and Fleischmann.

 

Also, you can drive 1 analog locomotive on a digital layout, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's not healthy for the motor. Of course, Kato, Tomix and MicroAce can all run on the same track, the only thing is that the couplers are often different, which means you can't get a basic 700 series set from Tomix, and add a Kato add-on set for example.

 

As for which DCC system to go for, it's mainly a personal taste thing. What you should do, is check which systems are easy to get for you. For example, Lenz, ESU and Uhlenbrock is real easy to get for me, and so I have a mix of Lenz and Uhlenbrock for now, and might add some ESU at some point. However, in America it's generally much easier to get Digitraxx, so a lot of people use that.

 

Right now I have Lenz myself, and I'm very happy with it, even though the decoders I use are a bit expensive (they have cheaper ones though.) Also, Selectrix is very good for N-scale, as it was specifically designed for that scale. However, Trix has dropped support, so you're dependent on mainly Rautenhaus and Müt to continue the system.

[disturbman]

Depending on what you will choose there is some Tomix 700 or N700 add-on set on sales at Hobby World.

[Bernard]

 

I didn't think that the track has got its own importance.

Isn't possible to equip any train with DCC decoder and use it one any track?

In fact, I was thinking to use "no-named" flexible track to run the trains...

 

 

 

 

Jamy - If you are going with Flex track then you are going with a permanent layout, which is what I used and you are going to have to have a track plan.

Next I recommend a flex track that is easy to purchase in the part of the country where you're from. I love working with Peco brand flex track but it is very hard for me to get in the USA whereas Atlas track is in almost every USA hobby store. (There might come a time where in your construction of the layout you might be a piece or 2 short and running to the Local Hobby shop is an option.) Since your from France, Peco might be your best option. I know Claude at the forum is using that track.

With Flex track you are also going to need cork roadbed, the flex track will sit on top of this when it will be mounted to the bench work.

For you layout, how much space to do have to use for it?

I know this is getting away from your original question, but planning on what you are going to run your Shinkansen is very important.

[Jamy]

Thank you all for your advices!

I've been to my local retailer to see what he can purpose me.

And he showed me some TRIX material, especially a kit to begin with a DCC mobile station, a transformer, a connector box, a DCC equiped train, with circuit included.

http://www.trixshop.de/index.php?sid=6c56cb2740dc1caa75e77cb9742aa219&cl=details&cnid=de594ef5c314372edec29b93cab9d72e&anid=T11123

This is not exactly this train on the french kit he has purposed me, but it's not really important.

I just would like to know what do you think about it, is it a good investment for beginning and take immediate pleasure?

Of course, I know that I will must equip my shinkansen with dcc decoder to make it run with this set.

Thank you!!

[railzilla]

The radii of the Trix set are to small to run your Shinkansen with it. I also started with European Trains and Japanese trains but i won't do it again. I just buy new Japanse trains as they have more than enough interesting trains and with limited time and budget you better focus on one target. If i were you i would run pure DC first. Adding DCC is another expense and sometimes troublesome and with Shinkansens its not really needed.

[CaptOblivious]

Kato does have a nice starter kit with the N700-series that includes 4 carraiges, a loop of Unitrack, and a competent DC throttle for a reasonable price. It's also widely available even outside of Japan. HS link for reference:

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10073822

 

Thank you all for your advices!

I've been to my local retailer to see what he can purpose me.

And he showed me some TRIX material, especially a kit to begin with a DCC mobile station, a transformer, a connector box, a DCC equiped train, with circuit included.

http://www.trixshop.de/index.php?sid=6c56cb2740dc1caa75e77cb9742aa219&cl=details&cnid=de594ef5c314372edec29b93cab9d72e&anid=T11123

This is not exactly this train on the french kit he has purposed me, but it's not really important.

I just would like to know what do you think about it, is it a good investment for beginning and take immediate pleasure?

Of course, I know that I will must equip my shinkansen with dcc decoder to make it run with this set.

Thank you!!

[Martijn Meerts]

Thank you all for your advices!

I've been to my local retailer to see what he can purpose me.

And he showed me some TRIX material, especially a kit to begin with a DCC mobile station, a transformer, a connector box, a DCC equiped train, with circuit included.

http://www.trixshop.de/index.php?sid=6c56cb2740dc1caa75e77cb9742aa219&cl=details&cnid=de594ef5c314372edec29b93cab9d72e&anid=T11123

This is not exactly this train on the french kit he has purposed me, but it's not really important.

I just would like to know what do you think about it, is it a good investment for beginning and take immediate pleasure?

Of course, I know that I will must equip my shinkansen with dcc decoder to make it run with this set.

Thank you!!

 

Quite a few Japanese trains will run on the minitrix track without problems, including the sharp curves. Shinkansen and trains with close couplers and such won't be able to go through them.

 

As for the Mobile Station and such, I wouldn't recommend it. The Mobile Station as such is a nice little thing, but at the moment Trix isn't planning on expanding their digital system at the moment (they're fighting bankruptcy), and no one knows when there'll be news.

 

Also, the Mobile Station can't be connected to a computer if you ever want to go for computer control, nor can it handle occupancy detection and the likes.